no earth

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Archy Styrigg said:
Stroppy, if you're that close to your local tranny, fit an MET in your house, then run a 16mm cable from it to said transformer and bolt your cable onto it. Cover it over with dead leaves and other general detritus.
Should give you the best Ze in the area.
Click to expand...

Don't forget the rated breaking capacity of your equipment is only 6KA though... ;)
 
Archy Styrigg said:
Stroppy, if you're that close to your local tranny, fit an MET in your house, then run a 16mm cable from it to said transformer and bolt your cable onto it. Cover it over with dead leaves and other general detritus.
Should give you the best Ze in the area.
Click to expand...
or the nearest lamppost....just wrap it round...a bit of a twist to get it tight....
 
Stroppy said:
My gas pipe is definitely straight in the ground, as I can see it - its an ancient iron/steel thing that disappears into the earth. Anyway, I disconnected the bond from the gas pipe and still got 0.46, but then it ocurred to me: as the pipe is connected to appliances which have their metalwork earthed, am I not getting a parallel path through their CPC's? I'm not going to the trouble of disconnecting those, or the bonds on the water pipe or central heating as they are under the floor and a pain in the arse to get to. I'm getting more confused about this by the minute!

The more I think about it I think it is the gas service, as (a) it is a metal pipe going straight into the ground, and (b) the gas-main in the road goes right past the transformer within about 2 metres of it.

Testing the MET without the twig got me 0.35.
Click to expand...

May be you can, but if it's iron pipe it will definitely have a wrap below ground (Used to be a grease impregnated tape, which i can't remember the name of at the moment). What you can see, is where it hasn't been properly wrapped after up-stand connection by the original gas fitters. The same will go for the copper pipe, that probably been tee'd of an old main line lead wrapped pipe.

Far more likely that a neighbour or neighbours have had a PME upgrade, and your seeing the results from the bonded services from those properties!!. But you have to remember that your metal service connections, are bonds (as they are in the other properties) and not a recognised earth electrode. So while it is improving your TT system to TN values, it's not really the best place to be!!
 
Engineer54 said:
May be you can, but if it's iron pipe it will definitely have a wrap below ground (Used to be a grease impregnated tape, which i can't remember the name of at the moment). What you can see, is where it hasn't been properly wrapped after up-stand connection by the original gas fitters. The same will go for the copper pipe, that probably been tee'd of an old main line lead wrapped pipe.

Far more likely that a neighbour or neighbours have had a PME upgrade, and your seeing the results from the bonded services from those properties!!. But you have to remember that your metal service connections, are bonds (as they are in the other properties) and not a recognised earth electrode. So while it is improving your TT system to TN values, it's not really the best place to be!!
Click to expand...

Denzo Tape maybe???

Not sure myself to be honest - it's just a name that's lurking in a dark corner of my mind.
 
I do realise that the services are not there to be used as an earth, and the difference between earthing and bonding, which is why I started all this: testing the effectiveness of my earth twig. I will see if I can get PME'd, which would be the better option, otherwise I'll get some chunky rods and start driving them into the mud-bath that is my garden.

One day I'll get under the floor and individually test all the pipework and find which one is the culprit, but for now I CBA!
 
Geordie Spark said:
Denzo Tape maybe???

Not sure myself to be honest - it's just a name that's lurking in a dark corner of my mind.
Click to expand...

Yes, that sounds about right!! lol!! As others say, really horrible stuff to work with, but it works. Must have been around now for 60 odd years or so now, under various names and variations etc!! lol!!
 
Engineer54 said:
Yes, that sounds about right!! lol!! As others say, really horrible stuff to work with, but it works. Must have been around now for 60 odd years or so now, under various names and variations etc!! lol!!
Click to expand...

Oh yes it works very well.

I remember my Dad making some clothes posts for my Mum to tie her washing lines to. He made them out of steel pipe that he nicked from work and he wrapped the lower part that was going to be buried with Denzo.

That was in 1950 something and those posts were still there in 2008. That's the year when Mum died and I sold the house, so they're probably still there for all I know.
 
Mork said:
Ofcourse, as a temp measure a water main is much more reliable than dodgy reading Ra on an electrode, however it could be replaced with plastic, so any pemenent matalic stucture that is soundly connected to earth and in your opinion doesnt deteriorate is acceptable as a reliable earth in aTT system.
Click to expand...

I must admit that if any upgrading to the water system took place where the old lead water mains was cut off in the road you would still have anything up to 30m of buried lead pipe in the ground.
This now being obsolete would make a very nice 'twigg' and then on used as the earth electrode for the installation. One would assume that RCDs/RCBOs were in place if the Ra was too high.........

I've just managed to get a front row seat - you can stuff the pop corn !
 
ackbarthestar said:
I must admit that if any upgrading to the water system took place where the old lead water mains was cut off in the road you would still have anything up to 30m of buried lead pipe in the ground.
This now being obsolete would make a very nice 'twigg' and then on used as the earth electrode for the installation. One would assume that RCDs/RCBOs were in place if the Ra was too high.........

I've just managed to get a front row seat - you can stuff the pop corn !
Click to expand...
same goes for private services (boreholes)...if you can ensure there will be no `upgrades` or tampering etc...
 
ackbarthestar said:
I must admit that if any upgrading to the water system took place where the old lead water mains was cut off in the road you would still have anything up to 30m of buried lead pipe in the ground.
This now being obsolete would make a very nice 'twigg' and then on used as the earth electrode for the installation. One would assume that RCDs/RCBOs were in place if the Ra was too high.........

I've just managed to get a front row seat - you can stuff the pop corn !
Click to expand...

Wouldn't be up to much as an earth electrode, Just a typical extraneous service value, unless you stripped all the protective wrapping off of it!! ...lol!!
 
Engineer54 said:
Wouldn't be up to much as an earth electrode, Just a typical extraneous service value, unless you stripped all the protective wrapping off of it!! ...lol!!
Click to expand...
and theres nothing to day that in future the path isn`t dug up...and that 30 meters all of a sudden becomes about 3-4...lol...
you just cant rely on it...
 
GLENNSPARK said:
is that `sticky toffee pudding` then ack?...
Click to expand...

Lol, I just looked up the H&S requirements for this stuff and as suspected nothing to report, just use a bucket load of swafega and hot water. However, it is suggested that if ingested you should seek medical advice ?!!!.

I never considered that there might be any nutritional value in the gunky cloth/tape !
 
telectrix said:
nah, tony's star/delta with a squirrel cage.
Click to expand...

TonyCage.jpg

........
 
GLENNSPARK said:
dig the garden then
Click to expand...

Its going to down about metre so unless you're putting in the foundations for an extension then its unlikely to be affected. A loop measurement or better still, run your test electrodes across the lawn and into the next doors garden to get a resistance would be sufficient.

Alternatively use the exploration hole to wack in a 'twigg' and back fill with bentonite - Job done - lol
 
Stroppy said:
I do realise that the services are not there to be used as an earth, and the difference between earthing and bonding, which is why I started all this: testing the effectiveness of my earth twig. I will see if I can get PME'd, which would be the better option, otherwise I'll get some chunky rods and start driving them into the mud-bath that is my garden.

One day I'll get under the floor and individually test all the pipework and find which one is the culprit, but for now I CBA!
Click to expand...

Regular viewers may remember this discussion about my pitiful 125 ohm reading from my earth rod (and unbelievably low Ze through the bonding). I know it is nice to have follow-up on discussions, so let's put this one to bed:

This afternoon I finished work at lunchtime and as, for once, it is not raining I thought I would sort out my earthing before I got cleaned up for the weekend. I have now pulled out my old 'twig' and pounded in two of Sarnia Electrical's finest shiny 3/8" earth rods and connected up my earthing conductor. Now I have a much more reasonable Ze of 44 ohms and a fault current of a whopping 5 amps.

That will do! As my late wife said, deeper is definitely better. :)
 
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