No Paperwork For New Consumer Unit Installation

[Trimglafix]

My mother has recently had a new consumer unit installed but has not been provided with any paperwork (other than a payment receipt). She says the installer did not mention that any would follow later.
I don't think that is right / legal. Surely she should receive a certificate to show the work has been done in conformance with regulations etc?

 

[Octopus]

You are quite correct. A reputable electrician would have dealt wuth the labc part p requirement too.

best you ask them for this

 

[Darkwood]

The paperwork is what protects the 'Electrician' if anything goes wrong, it shows (s)he did the relevent tests, ensured (s)he didn't reconnect anything that would be considered dangerous and reflects their competence to do the work, from a legal stance whether (s)he is required to provide the appropriate cert's I couldn't say but from a 'protecting their own posterior' angle, well it should be the minimum service that they provide such paperwork.

I would ring the contractor on your mothers behalf - explain you had the board changed for Insurance reasons and they are requesting testing Certificates for the board change and express they should have been provided with the board change.. this should make it harder for them to fob you off if you approach from this angle

 

[Trimglafix]

You are quite correct. A reputable electrician would have dealt wuth the labc part p requirement too.

best you ask them for this

Thanks for your prompt reply Murdoch. To be clear, what exactly should she be requesting from them? Is it just a certificate that the installer prints out or something more formal from a 'governing body'?

 

[Octopus]

Thanks for your prompt reply Murdoch. To be clear, what exactly should she be requesting from them? Is it just a certificate that the installer prints out or something more formal from a 'governing body'?

ALL fuseboard changes require an EIC (electrical Installation certificate) to be completed and provided to the customer AND in England and Wales there needs to be a certificate of compliance for Building Regs Part P.

Do you know how long this person was on site and how much they charged?

 

[Trimglafix]

ALL fuseboard changes require an EIC (electrical Installation certificate) to be completed and provided to the customer AND in England and Wales there needs to be a certificate of compliance for Building Regs Part P.

Do you know how long this person was on site and how much they charged?

Thanks again Murdoch. I will get her to request those.
From memory I believe she said the hours were approximately 9am to 5pm and he charged £600 for the consumer unit install. He also replaced a simple light fitting in one room (the type where a wire hangs down with light fitting on bottom) & put a new double socket on the wall just behind consumer unit. For this he charged an extra £75.
I will confirm figures when I talk to her again.

 

[Darkwood]

Thanks again Murdoch. I will get her to request those.
From memory I believe she said the hours were approximately 9am to 5pm and he charged £600 for the consumer unit install. He also replaced a simple light fitting in one room (the type where a wire hangs down with light fitting on bottom) & put a new double socket on the wall just behind consumer unit. For this he charged an extra £75.
I will confirm figures when I talk to her again.

I cannot see where the money and Labour has gone here, how many circuits are there on the new fuseboard?

 

[Trimglafix]

I cannot see where the money and Labour has gone here, how many circuits are there on the new fuseboard?

The box was a Schneider 9 (from memory). Not sure what is meant by circuits but if you mean the trip switches I think 2 banks of four and she mentioned he said there were a couple spare in case she needed to add anything else later. House is a 3 bedroom semi detached.

 

[Hellmooth]

Seems pretty excessive for what has been described!

 

[Trimglafix]

Seems pretty excessive for what has been described!

Now it has been mentioned, a quick look does suggest the job was overpriced too! On whatprice.co.uk it appears to have been charged at twice the going rate.
The box was re-positioned at the other side of interior wall from the originals position, but everything was done in a day therefore it can't have added that much to the labour charge. I see a Shneider 9 can be purchased for about £60 & the light fitting & socket must only add about a tenner. I'm sure there will have been other minor expenses but it must surely leave a minimum of £500 for the days labour. Is that the going rate for an electrician? I have no idea.

 

[Hellmooth]

I wouldn't mind being that electrician if that is the going rate.......

The materials would be no more than £150 if it was an Amendment 3 metal consumer unit.

 

[Midwest]

You mentioned relocating the new consumer unit, were the existing circuit cables extended and some form of enclosure used to do so? Was your mother given a quotation for the work in question? It does on the face of it seem rather expensive, did the installer give a breakdown in his invoice?

 

[Hellmooth]

Someone charging that much is never going to give a breakdown of costs, will try and hide it in the materials!

There may have been more work involved, but as the OP says it was done in 1 day so is pretty steep!

 

[Midwest]

Some electricians may wait for their bill to be paid, before submitting an EIC. Although they are not suppose to.

 

[davesparks]

Some electricians may wait for their bill to be paid, before submitting an EIC. Although they are not suppose to.

Who says we aren't supposed to?

 

[Midwest]

Elecsa......whom I with, say I would be a very naughty boy to do such a thing......and of course I don't.

 

[davesparks]

Elecsa......whom I with, say I would be a very naughty boy to do such a thing......and of course I don't.

That doesn't surprise me, the NICEIC assessor advised me the complete opposite a few years ago.

It's in my terms and conditions and printed at the bottom of each quote that I require a deposit before starting and only issue certificates once payment is received.

 

[Midwest]

I'm prepared to be corrected on this (no expert on contract law). However your certificate is part of your work (BS7671 requires certificates on completion of work), and your contract with your customer is to complete the work you quoted or estimated. If you have a customer who hasn't paid they could argue, that haven't done so because you haven't completed your work for them (given them a cert). So you should issue your cert, in a timely manner, and take action against customers for outstanding or late payments. That's the official company line anyway!

 

[Midwest]

Sorry Dave posted before reading your reply. I see you state that in your T&C (re certs). Think you might need to seek advice on that, if ever you got in such circumstances. A recent copy of Elecsa/NICEIC connections publication, advised against withholding certs until payment is received.

 

[Trimglafix]

Thank you for all the further comments. To answer a few questions posed;
It was previously a grey metal box consumer unit with the fusewire type fuses in.
I will look into whether wires were extended next time I am visiting as I don't know (though still only a days work).
The bill was paid on the day of fitting. It was paid by debit card using a Merchant Terminal;

 

[Midwest]

As previously stated, you should receive an Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) for this work. You will need to find out whether the installer is registered with a government approved scheme (such as Napit, Elecsa or NICEIC, there are others) or is suitably qualified to carry out such work. This is because the work has to be notified with the local building control (LBC). Notification is done automatically through one of the schemes, or if not the installer my have some process with LBC. I'm in a scheme, so can't comment on the latter. An EIC and notification can take up to 30 days to come through. I think it would be best to make contact with the installer enquiring about the EIC & notification to the LBC. In terms of what was paid, did your mother receive a quotation/estimate for the work? Did it state anything about certification or notification. Certification is required on completion of the work, but notification can be the responsibility of the householder.

 

[Octopus]

Elecsa......whom I with, say I would be a very naughty boy to do such a thing......and of course I don't.

They can stick sick stupid rules. If I get the sniff that the client may be a difficult payer I state on the invoice that the cert etc will be provided on receipt of payment

 

[uksparks]

I don't think I have ever charged anyone more than £400 to move and change a board even with 10 circuits, my usual price is £325 - £360 depending on a few factors etc and also if bonding is need, thats extra dependent on where it is located.

I have always gone on the basis that if I charge more than £250 labor for a day im going to look expensive and charging too much, I always give a full itemized invoice so I cant exactly say the board was £200.

 

[joeldrummer79]

So if the gentleman's mum has had a board replaced and the installer will not provide a certificate, cannot provide a certificate for whatever reason, what should she do? Can she get somebody else to test and issue a certificate?

 

[Midwest]

Perhaps we should wait for the OP to come back on the questions asked, albeit a bit expensive, the installer may well be providing the necessary documentation.

 

[uksparks]

Just speaking out loud here hypothetically, just suppose the person who did the board change did not and will not issue any paper work or certificate.

Who can actually do anything about it anyway? If they are not registered with a scheme they cant do anything, and there is as far as I am aware no law or any one who could actually enforce is anyway is there?

 

[Midwest]

Suppose it would hinge possibly on what was said in the quotation or contract between the parties. If nothing was mentioned or agreed then the IP would have to consider their options. They could go to small claims and argue that BS7671 says an EIC should be completed and given to the person ordering the work. Perhaps the OP will report back.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

on regards on not giving as EIC till payment been made, you can still Reg the work.
And just hold off handing over the EIC till payment has been given.

Other wise you could do, course and not pay unless you pass.

 

[Guest77]

Question is= has she paid the bill? if that was mentioned and I missed it then I apologise, surely handing over the certificate when you pop around to get the cheque isn't a problem? I used to print my certs through the sofware system, it could be a few days before I get around to it, the testing is done on a blue tooth machine so legally it is tested, just awaiiting paper work, no big deal really.

 

[Midwest]

She's paid already.