Discuss Non paying customer in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

J

JL_Electrical

First fixed a two storey extension, started in August 2010. Kitchen diner and two upstairs bedrooms. Downlights throughout the kitchen diner, electric cooker, sockets galore, plinth heaters, remote veluxes etc. Customer changing his mind daily and adding extra points etc but as I seemed to quite get on with the bloke at the time, I kept my price the same. His wiring in the existing house was pretty damn bad, so I advised a rewire.
As he was gutting the rest of the house anyway, he agreed and I gave him a price. I have first fixed 85% of the existing house and second fixed some of it. I have left his existing wiring in place so as to not leave him in a mess. The reason that some remains to be first fixed is that he has repeatedly promised to move mountains of all sorts of crap from the rooms but never has gotten round to it. Anyway in late 2010 he falls out with the builder big time and the builder refuses to come back. I know the builder through a mutual customer and was informed that he hadn't been paid in full. I had been paid up until this point and thought there were no issues.
Anyway months pass by and I start to wonder what had happened, but being busy anyway I wasn't too fussed. I'd pretty much been paid for the work I'd done to that point. Anyway out of the blue one day the customer calls and says he's had issues with a subby the builder used and wasn't happy with the work but was made up with mine and would I be willing to come back and finish the job off. He explained that the job had came to a stop due to his mum dying and all the arrangements that came with it etc. I kind of felt sorry for the guy and against my better judgement I agreed that I would fit the remainder of the job in as and when I had time and made a promise that I'd have his Kitchen live for last Christmas. Which is a promise I kept.
The job hit a stop again when I said to him that he owed me £525.00 + Mats for the kitchen and bedroom second fix. I'd been on it for two days and my apprentice for one. The bulk of this time was cutting in and second fixing down lights galore. Anyway his reply was the extension works were agreed with the builder, go and see him for your money. I obviously was not best pleased and have been trying to negotiate it since. The second fix gear had been stored in his house for nigh on a year and unfortunately some of the materials that had been sent by the wholesaler were incorrect. I had to replace these as rightly the wholesaler was unwilling to exchange a year later due to changing stock lines etc. I have not been reimbursed.
I have threatened the guy with a claim against him and sent recorded invoices etc, but he is sending letters back saying that I am refusing to come and sort out problems such as one downlight being the wrong colour, a spring clip missing (which he must have lost), downlights being in the wrong place (interesting it's taken him 12mths of looking at them to realise this), switch inserts being the wrong colour and that I'm flat out refusing to finish the works on his existing house. My reasoning is, why would I risk losing more money to do extra work for a non paying customer. The one downlighter being the wrong colour was due to it being marked wrong on the box. He knows damn well I'd have replaced it given half a chance. I've sent a written contract for him to sign requesting £400.00 up front for materials and labour charge to be paid on completion for the remainder of his job. He has replied with a letter claiming I need to reimburse him for unfinished works, and things being in the wrong place and sockets not being energised etc.

Utter utter areshole and I've learned a big lesson from him.

I'm down £700.00 shall I pursue it and go through all the rigmarole or put it down to experience and never work to verbal contract ever again?
 
this is typical of scammers.....they have a spec in mind.....then as it all starts going in....they change it...add bits on etc.....Robin..a builder a few doors away from me warned me about `customers` like this....be warned!!!
 
Glenn, I fully admit I've been had. But if I stopped and charge for every little extra I ever do for the Joe public, I don't think I'd ever have any work. I know it's wrong that they do it. As long as the customer isn't a complete idiot and it doesn't involve me shelling out for gear and I'm wiring in that area at the time then an extra light, socket or spur on the ring for something is sometimes neither here nor there.
 
Sorry to hear that mate, never a good situation. Realistically, think about the potential cost involved trying to get the money back through the small claims court - would it be worth it for £700.00? Plus if you are busy, all the extra hassle and work involved taking it to court?

If it were me, I'd go round and take back everything that belongs to you that isn't fitted, and try and flog on here or eBay. And bite the bullet and put it down as a lesson in life!

That's my thoughts but others may disagree.....that's what a forum is for!

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Ed
 
I always tell arkward payers that im passing my money owed to the local unregistered debt collector, i says ive used him before and i get my money owed upfront from him, he makes he money by changing £75 per visit plus £50 per half hour on site, he has no interest in a missing lamp clip or anything else, then remind him you had a verbal agreement to which hes doing his best to stall and get out of, then say if payment isnt made within 2weeks then it isnt your problem anymore, and remind him he aint bothered about legalities of this situe as hes taking on the debt and making sure hes paid it with commision...... then see how long before you get payed???? Be careful this is scare tactics and might not bode well in court but it usually works a treat.
 
Glenn, I fully admit I've been had. But if I stopped and charge for every little extra I ever do for the Joe public, I don't think I'd ever have any work. I know it's wrong that they do it. As long as the customer isn't a complete idiot and it doesn't involve me shelling out for gear and I'm wiring in that area at the time then an extra light, socket or spur on the ring for something is sometimes neither here nor there.
`been had`.makes it sound a bit like your at fault here.....you aint mate....you get your money out of this turnip....by hook or by crook.....i hate this kind of thing me.....like where just here to be taken the p**s outof....
 
The fact he fell out with the builder should have being a clue.sorry for stating the obvious.no way would i let this guy away with it.even it it meant breaking the law i would make him pay.I had a case like that once not only would he not pay up he personally insulted me.He paid up but I couldnt say publicly how I got the money plus costs.
 
the thing is n all ...is i think sometimes the good and the decent dont want to kick up a fuss about how to get what is rightfully their money.......well i would say this to those.......look at the fuss recently kicked up in westminster.....by those that were unrightfully claiming monies that WERNT THEIRS....so if those that make laws can behave in this manner......well i cant see an issue with someone going after monies owed that they ACTUALLY EARNED.....
 
I always tell arkward payers that im passing my money owed to the local unregistered debt collector, i says ive used him before and i get my money owed upfront from him, he makes he money by changing £75 per visit plus £50 per half hour on site, he has no interest in a missing lamp clip or anything else, then remind him you had a verbal agreement to which hes doing his best to stall and get out of, then say if payment isnt made within 2weeks then it isnt your problem anymore, and remind him he aint bothered about legalities of this situe as hes taking on the debt and making sure hes paid it with commision...... then see how long before you get payed???? Be careful this is scare tactics and might not bode well in court but it usually works a treat.
but then it has to be proven in court doesn`t it!!.....your word against his on an issue like this..(unregistered debt collector)...
 
I heard a story from another spark who was owed a few quid for a job once and they would not pay saying come back in a few day a see my brother who will pay you.......
They pulled the service fuse and went to leave you have not seen someone paid so quickly!!
 
I would keep your eyes on chanel five. You may see your self and the builder on cowboy builders. They only show how upset the customer is and dont always tell the full story. This guy may tell them the sob story saying you did not finish your work and there were bits missing etc and that will make you look bad. Its not right. Im not saying there arnt any cowboys owt there, cos we know there are, but in this case the cowboy is the customer!!!


Jay
 
I heard a story from another spark who was owed a few quid for a job once and they would not pay saying come back in a few day a see my brother who will pay you.......
They pulled the service fuse and went to leave you have not seen someone paid so quickly!!

A mate of mine did the same. Did a job on a verbal agreement of price and the guy knocked him down on price on completion. He flat out refused to pay the pre agreed price, so the fuse was pulled and out came the money in full. Does the problem customer in question have an external meter cabinet ? Just saying.
 
I would keep your eyes on chanel five. You may see your self and the builder on cowboy builders. They only show how upset the customer is and dont always tell the full story. This guy may tell them the sob story saying you did not finish your work and there were bits missing etc and that will make you look bad. Its not right. Im not saying there arnt any cowboys owt there, cos we know there are, but in this case the cowboy is the customer!!!


Jay
yep....all very formatted n all jay....sob stories galore!!.....thing is thiugh....the one thing that ties all these stories together is the use of `verbal agreements`......and no disrespect to the O/P...but i mean when you have larger sums of money changing hands why the hell would you not draw up a contract.....the genuine will see the benefits of this.....the sly n devious will want to shy away from it.....
 
oh the fun you could have wandering down the street pulling fuses in the middle of the night.
well i wouldn`t care about plungin em into darkness.....if i didn`t get my money....that bullit would get pulled......they can either wire their install into the nearest lamppost....or huddle around said lamppost till it either gets too cold...or its bedtime....i just wouldn`t care....
 
Yes I've thought of this route but I believe I could be done for criminal damage and also he doesnt have a meter box cupboard outdoors but I still have a front door key. Breaking and entering though :S
 
Yes I've thought of this route but I believe I could be done for criminal damage and also he doesnt have a meter box cupboard outdoors but I still have a front door key. Breaking and entering though :S
slightly comforting though isnt it.....just thinking about pullin that bullit.....then watchin em struggle to work out what happened...lol...
 
Go in with a blown one, replace the good one with that, I'm not saying that you should do this because if you did it would be really really naughty. But the fuse could mysteriously blow for some strange reason. Couldn't it?
Hehe
 
And it could keep blowing week after week !
Another thing you could tell said customer is that you are going to sell copies of his front door key down the pub to local undesirables to recoup the amount he owes you.
 
The DNO get really funny when main fuses blow - it starts a internal investigation of fraud as they think someone has had a fidley diddly with the meter!
 
If you have a key I would have thought that having given you said key the householder was inviting you in, even on occasion when he or his representatives weren't present, therefore you wouldn't be trespassing, would you?
 
If you have a key I would have thought that having given you said key the householder was inviting you in, even on occasion when he or his representatives weren't present, therefore you wouldn't be trespassing, would you?

Yeah you probably would be in the eyes of the law I reckon.
 
Im doing a rewire in few weeks for a young couple and we have only a verbal agrement. But the customer has offered to give me the cash up front for the parts. I would normally ask for this anyway, at least that way, if you fall out after first or second fix, its only labour time youve lost, which is still bad but its not as bad as loosing hard cash. Just put his windows through. It may not get your money back but it will hurt his pocket and make you feel better. lol

Jay
 
If it,s going to get nasty give him the key back first but get a receipt for it,you would be surprised what may go "missing" and guess who the law will come to first!
 
To keep you guys updated I have filed my small claim this morning and paid my £60.00. Rather apprehensive now as to what lies ahead! Just hope it doesn't cost me a fortune. The fact he can counter claim against me is a worry. But in all honesty if I lose this claim then there truly is no justice in the world and people can do exactly as they like :S!
 
With regards the Money Claim Online route, has anybody any experience of going through this?
Recently my partner who is a tiler went this way. the court just appointed a surveyor. Who picked up the odd flaw in the tiling. (there are flaws in all jobs if you look hard enough)Everything was within standards and almost perfect, but because it was only almost perfect the case was dismissed. customers had paid 2/3 of the bill. The law is an ---. I think Darkwoods method is the best way. Scare the scum into paying.

The customers were in fact over the moon with the tiling they just thought it was overpriced. They wanted marble for the price of ceramics. They only played on the tiny flaws after the surveyors vist.
 
To keep you guys updated I have filed my small claim this morning and paid my £60.00. Rather apprehensive now as to what lies ahead! Just hope it doesn't cost me a fortune. The fact he can counter claim against me is a worry. But in all honesty if I lose this claim then there truly is no justice in the world and people can do exactly as they like :S!

How are you getting on with your claim? If you havent been to court already make sure you say that you left them with fully functioning electrics. I believe this is a very important thing to say. we have learned through speaking to others. Who have won. Good luck
 

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