Non Registered Spark wiring NewBuild

[LED Lighting]

Hi all
Went to a Newly Built Granny-Flat last week on behalf of MK's Switch Exchange Program
Opened the CU to find

• spaghetti Junction,
• No Labels,
• Tails half out of Main Switch,
• 16mm SWA on a run of 50m
• SWA Armor not earthed
• PME brought over from main house
• 50A MCB and RCD protecting SWA
• 3 x 8.5kW Showers in Granny Flat - (Don't know why 3)
• No Bonding anywhere

Certificates:

• No Property Name
• Customer was the building company
• Ze results mixed with Zs results
• Non-Body Certs
• No Signature on bottom of Certs

Gave the Electrician a call - details found in designer section only - asked for his registration number - reply "C&G 2382 and C&G 2391 I think!"

Asked for NAPIT, NICEIC, etc - reply what are they!

He recalls wiring the house - he didn't know he had to be registered


Called LABC - their reply:

• No Building Control Certification
• No Building Control Notice for Electrics
• No Building Control Notice for Gas
• No Building Control Notice for Insulation
• No Building Control Notice for Windows
• No Building Control Notice for ANYTHING!
• Only thing they could find was Planning Permission which the customer applied for

Customer spent £85,000 for this build

Electrician is from Manchester Area - Worked down in Pembrokeshire, Wales on this one job
I don't know if I can post the name of the construction company or Electrician - MODs advise please

 

[Plonker 3]

So really the only issue is that LABC haven't been informed of the work. There are thousands of jobs like this all over the country.

 

[LED Lighting]

The issue is his Craftsmanship and no-compliant work

 

[Plonker 3]

Craftsmanship although it sounds rough, it is obviously still compliant with the regs.

 

[telectrix]

the building is subject to planning control anyway, so the electrician does not need to be with niceic, elecsa etc. as long as LABC are satisfied he's competent, all that's needed is for LABC to receive a copy of the EIC. as for the problems with the installation itself, that's another issue.

 

[LED Lighting]

• No Labels
• Tails half out of Main Switch
• 16mm SWA on a run of 50m
• SWA Armor not earthed
• PME brought over from main house
• 50A MCB and RCD protecting SWA
• 3 x 8.5kW Showers in Granny Flat
• No Bonding anywhere

How are any of these complaint? - im sure I dont need to quote regs they dont comply with


Same goes for the EIC - Not worth the paper its written on!

 

[Plonker 3]

Did you price the job and not get it by any chance?

 

[LED Lighting]

Nope - Like I said - I went in to change the Main Switch for MK - Through it would be a good discussion on here

 

[Plonker 3]

• No Labels
• Tails half out of Main Switch
• 16mm SWA on a run of 50m
• SWA Armor not earthed
• PME brought over from main house
• 50A MCB and RCD protecting SWA
• 3 x 8.5kW Showers in Granny Flat
• No Bonding anywhere

How are any of these complaint? - im sure I dont need to quote regs they dont comply with


Same goes for the EIC - Not worth the paper its written on!

No labels- hardly going too do any harm to anyone is it
TAils not terminated properly- so the rest of the live parts in the DB are all fully enclosed?
16mm SWA- What problem here?
SWA Not earthed- Is the SWA used as a CPC? or is it run where it needs to earthed?
PME- DNO responsibility? Although no problem with extending it
50 MCB- sounds like it is doing its job properly
3 showers- No problem here
No bonding- are there any extraneous conductive parts?

So aside from the top 2 pretty compliant so far unless you answer the questions I have asked

 

[Plonker 3]

Nope - Like I said - I went in to change the Main Switch for MK - Through it would be a good discussion on here

Why has the original contractor not been asked to this if it's a new build?

 

[Engineer54]

3 x 8.5kW Showers in Granny Flat

Well she certainly isn't going to be using them all at the same time, ....now is she!! lol!!

 

[Silly Sausage]

3 x 8.5kW Showers in Granny Flat

What's that all about?!?!

 

[telectrix]

this is a thread that needs a pic of the CU with the lid off, so we can see if it's a bodge or not.

 

[LED Lighting]

No labels- hardly going too do any harm to anyone is it
No RCD, Circuit Identification - not sure if a reg but good practice as these are included in the CU
TAils not terminated properly- so the rest of the live parts in the DB are all fully enclosed?
Tails not in properly - and not cut tidy - only 3 cores connected!
16mm SWA- What problem here?
50m Run - Preferably 25mm would have been better to avoid voltage drop!
SWA Not earthed- Is the SWA used as a CPC? or is it run where it needs to earthed?
SWA Buried underground
PME- DNO responsibility? Although no problem with extending it
Regs State this must be TT
50 MCB- sounds like it is doing its job properly
RCD Discrimination
3 showers- No problem here
if 2 Showers Running - MCB Tripps - 4 Bedrooms for all family members - usual situation for this customer
No bonding- are there any extraneous conductive parts?
All Pipework is metal

Check your regs!

- - - Updated - - -

this is a thread that needs a pic of the CU with the lid off, so we can see if it's a bodge or not.

I know - didn't take one - wish I did though

- - - Updated - - -

Why has the original contractor not been asked to this if it's a new build?

Original contractor subbed it to this Electrician!

 

[telectrix]

by my rough calc. 16mm will handle 46A over a 50m length, giving a VD of 3% . what's the problem?

 

[Plonker 3]

So you are saying only 3 cores of the SWA connected into the switch?

Does the 16mm suffer volt drop outside of the permitted in BS7671

What regs for SWA buried has to have a earthed sheath? TT on a outhouse, all they have done is extended the PME zone. Perfectly acceptable. Have you proven the metal pipework is a extraneous conductive part?

Ok so bad design on the showers.

 

[LED Lighting]

this is a thread that needs a pic of the CU with the lid off, so we can see if it's a bodge or not.

It was very similar condition to this one just bigger - 21Way MK CU - Split Load


This picture is taken of one I attended for British Gas Home Assistance

 

[Engineer54]

Originally Posted by Dillb No labels- hardly going too do any harm to anyone is it
TAils not terminated properly- so the rest of the live parts in the DB are all fully enclosed?
Tails not in properly - and not cut tidy - only 3 cores connected!
16mm SWA- What problem here?
50m Run - Preferably 25mm would have been better to avoid voltage drop! ....Better maybe, but that's not saying it doesn't comply!!
SWA Not earthed- Is the SWA used as a CPC? or is it run where it needs to earthed?
SWA Buried underground Is, or has the SWA been earthed at one end only ''outgoing end''??
PME- DNO responsibility? Although no problem with extending it
Regs State this must be TT .....REALLY THINK AGAIN!! Better still name that Reg?? lol!!
50 MCB- sounds like it is doing its job properly
RCD Discrimination ...Not actually against any regulation
3 showers- No problem here
if 2 Showers Running - MCB Tripps - 4 Bedrooms for all family members - usual situation for this customer .....Is this a Granny flat or a 4 bed house, ... make you're mind up??
No bonding- are there any extraneous conductive parts?
All Pipework is metal .....internal maybe, but what of the pipes entering the property, these day's plumbers tend to use plastic for everything??

 

[MisterE]

What's that all about?!?!

One for her hair, one for her feet and spare for Sundays ????

 

[LED Lighting]

So you are saying only 3 cores of the SWA connected into the switch?

Does the 16mm suffer volt drop outside of the permitted in BS7671

What regs for SWA buried has to have a earthed sheath? TT on a outhouse, all they have done is extended the PME zone. Perfectly acceptable. Have you proven the metal pipework is a extraneous conductive part?

Ok so bad design on the showers.

This building is 50m away from the main house! The Pipework is connected directly to a well!
You cant just extend a PME supply in this means - trying to find Reg now

 

[Plonker 3]

One last time, i am repeating myself here. Is the metal work a extraneous conductive part? have you tested to prove it one way or the other?

 

[Engineer54]

trying to find Reg now

Best of luck, but you ain't gonna find one!! There is NOTHING wrong with extending a PME's Equipotential Zone. Distance vs cost being the main factor as to whether you leave the Superior earthing system behind in favour of a TT system....

 

[LED Lighting]

One last time, i am repeating myself here. Is the metal work a extraneous conductive part? have you tested to prove it one way or the other?

Yes I have!

Ze between 100 and 200 ohms - acting as an earthrod


in regards to SWA - Armour is jsut cut and tapped at both ends - no glands
Inner insulation just passing through a 20mm hole in Iso in Main House - no supporting clamps - no earthing clamps
In House SWA is cut - only earth Conductor over 10mm is the 3rd core of SWA


2 x 30mA RCDs in Series

 

[Plonker 3]

So you livened the house up without the main earth being connected?

What was your IR result when you tested between the main incoming earth and the metal work?

- - - Updated - - -

Yo have left lots of information out of you OP.

 

[Engineer54]

I have no idea now if were talking about a 4 bed house, a Granny flat, or both?? lol!!

 

[Plonker 3]

I have a feeling the OP may have been registered before under a different name.

 

[LED Lighting]

So you livened the house up without the main earth being connected?

What was your IR result when you tested between the main incoming earth and the metal work?

- - - Updated - - -

Yo have left lots of information out of you OP.

Like I said I went in to change Main Switch
Main Earth is connected via 3rd Core in SWA - its the Armor at Fault
Didn't IR - Installation Isolated and advised to get an electrician to repair work

Part of the MK contract is Im not allowed to offer my services to do work for these customers

Property owner is a retired Electrician (15th Regs) he had not looked in the CU ever
Nor had he checked any work - he relied on the Electrician being qualified and registered

I know i left lots out on my OP - sorry

Wish I had taken Pictures now! - Hind Sight is wonderful

- - - Updated - - -

I have a feeling the OP may have been registered before under a different name.

Never only this name sorry to disappoint you Dillb

 

[LED Lighting]

I have no idea now if were talking about a 4 bed house, a Granny flat, or both?? lol!!

A Cabin used for Family members when they visit
Single Floor
Wooden Structure
4 Bedrooms
1 Kitchen
2 On-suites
1 Main Bathroom

 

[Plonker 3]

So you have now left the poor owner without electricity, all without any reason or right too?

 

[LED Lighting]

Like I said he is a retired electrician - Even he was discussed with the quality of work
He agreed to Isolation


Napit, MK and LABC also Advised Isolation until it had been fully tested by a qualified electrician

 

[Plonker 3]

This thread is so full of cattle excrement its unbelieveable

You were changing the main switch, you had no idea why the original contractor didn't do it. Then you are working for MK. How do MK know his main switch need changing. Also while you were there you have spent a good amount of time examining the installation even though your job should have taken about 10 minutes?

 

[Plonker 3]

Are all electrical contractors from Pembrokshire full of it?

I remember your identical twin brother Nicholas Owen also being from that neck of the woods.

 

[Engineer54]

A Cabin used for Family members when they visit
Single Floor
Wooden Structure
4 Bedrooms
1 Kitchen
2 On-suites
1 Main Bathroom

And that's what YOU call a Granny flat, a 4 bedroomed structure!! Sounds bigger than most typical houses to me... lol!!

 

[LED Lighting]

This thread is so full of cattle excrement its unbelieveable

You were changing the main switch, you had no idea why the original contractor didn't do it. Then you are working for MK. How do MK know his main switch need changing. Also while you were there you have spent a good amount of time examining the installation even though your job should have taken about 10 minutes?

MK had a recall on several Main Switches - Main Contractor stated he could not attend so MK Passed it onto myself!

Look i don't need to explain myself to you - yes I should of taken a picture and maybe you would have seen.

I have a very good reputation in this end of the woods - Working for several very large names including the ones mentioned in this thread and many others.


I only posted this as a good conversation - yes I should of said more in the OP

Lets put this thread to lay because at the moment Dillb you are only obsessed in having a bitch like always!

END OF!

 

[telectrix]

View attachment 21871

It was very similar condition to this one just bigger - 21Way MK CU - Split Load


This picture is taken of one I attended for British Gas Home Assistance

looked at that. decided no more beer today. then looked again, decided beer not to blame.

 

[overskilled]

I'm REALLY curious as to why so many think you can't extend an equipotential zone on a PME install.....
Wholesalers must love the ability sell all those extra earthing rods....

 

[guest119]

Well she certainly isn't going to be using them all at the same time, ....now is she!! lol!!

Prob wont use them at all if like my old gran! GBHS

Boydy

 

[telectrix]

bloody showers.. invention of satan. how the hell can you enjoy a single malt and a smoke in a bleeding rainstorm. give me a jacuzzi bath any time.

 

[7029 dave]

Tel, the only way I can achieve bubbles in my bath is to make me own.

 

[Paul P]

I'm REALLY curious as to why so many think you can't extend an equipotential zone on a PME install.....
Wholesalers must love the ability sell all those extra earthing rods....

Its a thing from the 80's along with staking down gas meters and plastic isolation valves on outside taps.

It funny how thing are dangerous and then not. Don't you love regs

 

[Engineer54]

Its a thing from the 80's along with staking down gas meters and plastic isolation valves on outside taps.

It funny how thing are dangerous and then not. Don't you love regs

Nope, it's down to the pure ''Scaremongering'' being perpetuated by the few still out there, that consider the PME artificial earth, as being an earthing system that is ready to kill each and everyone that has it installed!!

These herberts would rather see a TT system with crazy Ra values. There is one such guy on another forum, that has actually disconnected a perfectly sound TN-S connection for a 50 ohm TT system!!! Why because he believes that his TN-S DNO cable may have in part, been converted to TNC-S... lol!! There's nought so strange as folk, as they say!!

 

[spark 68]

MK had a recall on several Main Switches - Main Contractor stated he could not attend so MK Passed it onto myself!

Look i don't need to explain myself to you - yes I should of taken a picture and maybe you would have seen.

I have a very good reputation in this end of the woods - Working for several very large names including the ones mentioned in this thread and many others.


I only posted this as a good conversation - yes I should of said more in the OP

Lets put this thread to lay because at the moment Dillb you are only obsessed in having a bitch like always!

END OF!

Ha ha, I remember a very similar thread about a fire in a recently installed CU, and the same thing was said then, "Lets put this thread to lay ",
lol
Nicholas is that you ? lol

 

[Plonker 3]

Ha ha, I remember a very similar thread about a fire in a recently installed CU, and the same thing was said then, "Lets put this thread to lay ",
lol
Nicholas is that you ? lol

That's not the only similarity to Nic's style of writing. Plenty in this thread and a couple if others he has started.

 

[spark 68]

Yep,
and here is the very thread in question lol

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...um/60390-had-interesting-call-last-night.html

PMSL

 

[Anthony King]

Yep,
and here is the very thread in question lol

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...um/60390-had-interesting-call-last-night.html

PMSL

Lol who changed his name to spazz?

 

[spark 68]

Lol who changed his name to spazz?

I have no idea lol

Another thing not apparent from that old thread, was that Trev was winding him up about the local officials at his (Nicholas's) Fire HQ, he had looked up their names on the net lol, we knew, but watched him bite.

A couple of posts appear to be missing/moderated.

It was funny at the time to watch him try and squirm his way out.

I actually quite liked Nicholas, as he meant well, just he was a bit Walter Mitty, and he had a bit of a thing for RCDs and Part P/ESC.

 

[Knobhead]

I’ve read some boll0x on here. This takes the prize!

 

[Octopus]

Are all electrical contractors from Pembrokshire full of it?

I remember your identical twin brother Nicholas Owen also being from that neck of the woods.

This is on the home page of his website "Our Basingstoke Office covers the East of England including London and Leeds." I always thought that Leeds was up north!

 

[telectrix]

leeds was up north until recently, when glenn hammered in a huge earth rod, so huge that it altered the centre of gravity of the earth and now leeds is sub-tropical. all this because he wanted to wear his new burmuda shorts for work.

 

[Plonker 3]

This is on the home page of his website "Our Basingstoke Office covers the East of England including London and Leeds." I always thought that Leeds was up north!

He has is location as Wales and also the address on the website is Pembrokeshire.