Old Lady ripped off bodge it electrical

[nickblake]

Yet again another old lady ripped off by a poor job , no certs issued , i got the call today that she had a live wire in the kitchen ,so get there yes a wire was exposed but the fuse had been taken out this was supplying an old window fan and she had had the window replace so to move the old one it was cut off , so fair enough , then looking at her other problems she described a box keeps tripping out ,small one way consumer unit feeding new sockets in her kitchen main switch RCD 32 amp breaker supplying the kitchen ring , fine nothing wrong with that i hear you say ,well heres the crunch the consumer unit was tapped off a radial socket in the garage which is then supplied from a BS1361 30 amp fuse nice one so new kitchen new tiles all behind the cooker down to the floor , and directly above the cooker is the old cooker switch which was early 80's and in very poor condition ,i ask my self in disbelief why was this not moved when the kitchen was done and to add to it there have been 2 twin sockets tapped off that as well as the cooker , the consumer unit is an old 3036 coverted to 1361 fuses and 3871 MCB's with one of the MCB's in poor condition this is located in an alcove about 8 ft from the floor above a central heating boiler how the hell is the 92 year old ment to reach that if the MCB trips , no bonding to the oil service which is directly below the consumer unit nor any bonding to water which is in the same place ,the sockets have been replaced with the cheapest sockets in the history of electric ,and make it even worse they have been tiled round and grouted in so with out wrecking the tiles are almost imposible to remove , they guy that did it needs bringing to justice ,with just a little thought , it was one of the easiest kitchen referbs in the history of man kind lower and reloctae the consumer unit , move the cooker switch add an extra socket simple the whole job should have taken less than 2 days , this has annoyed me so much that its going further ,the old lady 's not going to do anything but i most certainally am ,Where has the passion in our buisness gone where is the though , how an old lady will access her consumer unit how

a very angry nick !!!!!

 

[topquark]

Beggars belief, at least she has the right man in now Nick!

They need to be put out of business! Trading standards, LABC. If they claimed to be part of a scheme, then details to the scheme provider.

We could almost do with a standard letter that can be sent to the various bodies.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Yet more examples of crap! Get em out of business I say...The problem here though is the further disruption to an old lady`s life that she could do without and lets not forget that old folk cant cope with to much upheaval/disruption (which is why they dont have things updated much) Does my head in..stuff like this...

 

[fuzzydunlop]

Get the guys details and post them up

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Get the guys details and post them up

Yep mate...there needs to be a sticky with em on it.....

 

[Knobhead]

For legal reasons I doubt very much you will get you’re “sticky”

 

[Rockingit]

I had my annual NICEIC inspection the other day, and asked about what is being done to better Police the rogues; and the fairly honest answer I got back was 'nothing'. The LABC's are all cash-strapped and overworked already, the NICEIC et al don't see it as their job either, and it would cost a fortune to run an industry-level FBI unit. Trading Standards might fair better, but then they normally look for a pattern of repeat behaviour which makes things unlikely as how many people would actually report unfair/unsafe work?

 

[SPARTYKUS]

I had my annual NICEIC inspection the other day, and asked about what is being done to better Police the rogues; and the fairly honest answer I got back was 'nothing'. The LABC's are all cash-strapped and overworked already, the NICEIC et al don't see it as their job either, and it would cost a fortune to run an industry-level FBI unit. Trading Standards might fair better, but then they normally look for a pattern of repeat behaviour which makes things unlikely as how many people would actually report unfair/unsafe work?

No point being in a "scheme" then. waste of money. Just all mugged off with sore backsides.

 

[trev]

What the hell is the point of the legislation if the powers that be are unable or unwilling to do anything about those who contravene it, not giving a damn about the danger they are putting other people in.

 

[Rockingit]

not giving a damn about the danger they are putting other people in.

This came up in the same conversation, and my NIC inspector told me the story (this is now third hand, so I'm sure may contain inaccuracies) of Tony Cable asking someone at Governmental / ESC level about why we don't have one national register, like Gas Safe, for Electricians. Apparently the answer is that electricity doesn't kill enough people in the UK to warrant the government time and expense.

 

[trev]

Tony Cable asking someone at Governmental / ESC level about why we don't have one national register, like Gas Safe, for Electricians. Apparently the answer is that electricity doesn't kill enough people in the UK to warrant the government time and expense.

So they hog tie the ones who actually do give a flying F with loads of red tape and expense. Marvellous isn't it.

 

[Rockingit]

Yep mate - damned either which way! But at least those of us consciencious enough to know the difference can sleep at night.

 

[Geordie Spark]

No point being in a "scheme" then. waste of money. Just all mugged off with sore backsides.

FINALLY ..... you've grasped it !

 

[Geordie Spark]

This came up in the same conversation, and my NIC inspector told me the story (this is now third hand, so I'm sure may contain inaccuracies) of Tony Cable asking someone at Governmental / ESC level about why we don't have one national register, like Gas Safe, for Electricians. Apparently the answer is that electricity doesn't kill enough people in the UK to warrant the government time and expense.

Probably quite correct.

There wouldn't have been a CORGI if it hadn't been for the Ronan Point disaster.

 

[Guest123]

For legal reasons I doubt very much you will get you’re “sticky”

If I thought it would actually get just one cowboy struck off, I'd risk a ban to do it.

These muppets need eradicating end of.

 

[Des 56]

I will go back to what I have always believed

We as electricians see the problems in the industry and we get angry seeing this sort of thing going on, when the system we have to work with fails on all fronts

The problem we have and always will have,others in positions of power do not visualise the problems to be significant to warrant hearing our gripes
never mind acting on our concerns

After all,even the schemes we have dont back us

If this was taken up with the niceic they would cast it aside, because their get out would be,either they are not registered so we dont act, or the complaint must be made by the customer,so we wont act

Even if they acted,any safety work done to the install instantly allows them to wash their hands of the problem by saying the installation has been altered



Talk about lack of support,these schemes appear to work against all we see as sensible and right

 

[telectrix]

talk about government not giving a ----...... from opinion polls, my own observations, press reports ( however inaccurate they may be) it would appeasr that around 75% of the UK population is in favour of a referendum over membership of the EU. so why did over 400 MPs ( supposedly representatives of said population who voted them into power) vote against the wishes of 75% of the electorate???????

 

[Rappid]

There needs to be more control on what people can buy over the counter, why is a consumer unit sold as a DIY item?

 

[telectrix]

There needs to be more control on what people can buy over the counter, why is a consumer unit sold as a DIY item?

£££££££££££££££££££££'s in the till, mate. divis for shareholders.

 

[telectrix]

and because it's perfectly legal. joe public buys a CU from B&Q, informs LABC, does the job, pays LABC £250+, all above board. and anyone who thinks that this happens in the real world is living on cloud cuckoo land. part p.... give us a break. time for some real legislation. never seen joe public buying a gas boiler for DIY install yet.

 

[Knobhead]

If I thought it would actually get just one cowboy struck off, I'd risk a ban to do it.These muppets need eradicating end of.

Go for it then, but I think you’ll be looking at more than a ban from this board.

 

[hercule]

and because it's perfectly legal. joe public buys a CU from B&Q, informs LABC, does the job, pays LABC £250+, all above board. and anyone who thinks that this happens in the real world is living on cloud cuckoo land. part p.... give us a break. time for some real legislation. never seen joe public buying a gas boiler for DIY install yet.

I always wonder who actually buys CUs etc from B&Q, Wickes... but I hadn't actually thought it all the way through - are the diyers working live or pulling the main fuse. When a registered spark isn't aloud to do either, should there actually be legislation stopping the sale of CUs etc to general public - or thats going too far?

 

[nickblake]

I always wonder who actually buys CUs etc from B&Q, Wickes... but I hadn't actually thought it all the way through - are the diyers working live or pulling the main fuse. When a registered spark isn't aloud to do either, should there actually be legislation stopping the sale of CUs etc to general public - or thats going too far?

Answer to that is any one i saw an elderly man with his wife in a wheel chair buying aboard hands shaking he said to the cashier im off home to replace my fuse box thats who , on the worrying note a recent house fire and a close call MCB caught fire this one was installed by a guy who's "mate " was an electricain problem is he had no certification electrium stated that due to the lack of certification they cannot further investigate and i bet the guys insurance would have been voide but here the thing to think about joe blogs buys a board installs it then theres a recall will they ever find out about it as electricians we will as its splashed over the press and in wholesalers ,there is some thing in the pipe line for regestration

 

[Guest123]

Go for it then, but I think you’ll be looking at more than a ban from this board.

I very much doubt anyone would give up the names of the rogues.

 

[DurhamSparky]

i can name a few and would happily be taken to court if they wanted to try the slander route!! i have pics and evidence! GET OUT OF OUR TRADE!!!

 

[trev]

Following this thread I popped on to ODPM website and left a message suggesting they come on here and read what's happening at the pointy end showing proof that Part P does not work, is an ill thought out piece of legislation and is being contravened on a daily basis with no one getting punished for it.
A guy called Ian Drummond Mailed me back telling me what Part P does and why it was introduced (For crying out loud, as if I didn't know that) and pointing out that LABCs have powers but often don't use them because they don't know it's happening. Total BS since I know lads who have reported shoddy work.
So I've replied in more detail asking him again to pop on over here to see some of the horror stories. I also suggested that instead of getting the CPS operators in on the consultation that's going on now he gets actual sparkies involved who know what is happening and may come up with some sensible ideas instead of the crap we are forced to cope with.
I'm not confident he will do anything but at least he has been told.
Anyone want his email address?

 

[telectrix]

the only problem with altering the legislation is that it will mean more cost being stuck onto the genuine sparks, thus increasing prices, thus giving more work to the cowboys, unless the sale of electrical equipment is restricted. can't see the fat cats who make millions out of sales going for that.

 

[i=p/u]

fat cats rule, and niceic was formed for the customer not the the installers.... so why would they care if they not registered with them

 

[telectrix]

since when did the niceic give a ---- for the customer? niceic was formed for the benefit of niceic.

 

[telectrix]

since when did the niceic give a ---- for the customer? niceic was formed for the benefit of niceic. ( that is not a statement of faCT, JUST A PERSONAL OPINION)

 

[Engineer54]

the only problem with altering the legislation is that it will mean more cost being stuck onto the genuine sparks, thus increasing prices, thus giving more work to the cowboys, unless the sale of electrical equipment is restricted. can't see the fat cats who make millions out of sales going for that.

Thank god for the ''fat cats'' then!! Stop blaming the general public for all the woes of the electrical industry. The only people to blame is yourselves for not doing anything, apart from moaning about the deskilling of our industry. The facts of the matter is, and has been proved time and time again, that there are just as many cowboy's in these so-called scheme providers as there are outside of them.

Retailers have been selling electrical equipment long before i came into the industry, i dare say most electricians use these retailers far more than most are willing to admit too. If these retailers can sell this stuff cheaper than the big electrical wholesalers, then something is very wrong with these wholesalers prices, ....strangely Greed rapidly comes to mind!! lol!!!

 

[DurhamSparky]

B and Q / Screw fix / Tool station = life line on weekends and after 5pm for them niggly bits you always need!!!

do try and stay away from them as best i can but some times duty calls!!

i blame home DIY shows for the decline in most trades apart from roofer and gas fitter!

 

[Guest112]

lol has anyone had the call from the "confident" diyer whos mixed up his wiring at ceiling roses when he tried to replace them with new ones from these diy stores saying that he thought that just the two colours did the same thing lol i have easy money then

 

[telectrix]

loads of 'em mate. love it. £50 for sorting 3 cables out.

 

[trev]

lol has anyone had the call from the "confident" diyer whos mixed up his wiring at ceiling roses when he tried to replace them with new ones from these diy stores saying that he thought that just the two colours did the same thing lol i have easy money then

Only about a thousand times mate

 

[telectrix]

on that theme, i recently was called to a similar situation where the guy had fitted a new light. bang goes the fuse, so he calls me out. i checked/metered cables, connected up --bang. turns out that the new fitting he had bought had a dead short L/E internally. DOH.

 

[Guest112]

so maybe not a bad thing that the shops sell electrical equipment to the joe public considering the work it actually creates for us when they get out of their depth with it, i just hope they dont blow themselves up.

my eighty year old grandad rang me the other day after he changed a fitting in his kitchen he mixed the earth up with the line conductor even taped the earth up red for some reason, really scared me that he was working with electricity told him strictly to only call me anytime he needs anything doing electrically he said he was gutted that he messed up because he was out of his depth ( he used to be a carpenter and then a patten maker and then a university lecturer........very proud man and intelligent)

 

[hercule]

Going off on a bit of a tangent here, but...

Had a gas fire looked at when having my boiler serviced less about 10 days ago. Turns out the (flueless) fire needed a fairly big vent in the room otherwise didn't comply with regs (not installed in accordance with manufacturers instructions). It had been fitted about 2 years ago by previous owner just before we bought the house. We've got building regs cert stating compliance. I didn't fancy putting a vent in the pretty small front room and I hate the look of the fire. The engineer capped the gas off there and then, stuck a do not use sticker on it and filled in a gas safe form. I have changed it for smaller electric fire already.

Got a letter today from the HSE saying that it had been reported and they wanted to investigate urgently to make sure that the installer wasn't fitting any more appliances illegally.

Is a similar response from a dangerous electrical installation likely?

 

[Guest112]

tbh i hope so mate its good to see that another trade is better governed by safety and bodges better but im not sure someone will tell you now man

 

[GLENNSPARK]

talk about government not giving a ----...... from opinion polls, my own observations, press reports ( however inaccurate they may be) it would appeasr that around 75% of the UK population is in favour of a referendum over membership of the EU. so why did over 400 MPs ( supposedly representatives of said population who voted them into power) vote against the wishes of 75% of the electorate???????

Because the party Whips will cajole and threaten...to ensure MPs tow the line...they will even stand at the que (arms folded) to see who goes in the "no" line...and report em......its crap innit....

 

[SteveG]

loads of 'em mate. love it. £50 for sorting 3 cables out.

And they swear on their mothers life they replaced them back exactly as they were.

On a lighter note: when I was an apprentice back in the 70's they introduced twin red +e 1.5mm for wiring switch wires from the light. We were wiring new flats on bonus (paid 11 hours for a first fix) We could knock em out in 8 hours easily (6 if we really grafted and no breaks) It was a good earner but always a rush.
I didn't take note of which coil was twin red and wired the entire lighting circuit in it. I didn't find out until the second fix (doh)
Didn't make a bonus on the second fix lol

 

[Pete999]

Beggars belief, at least she has the right man in now Nick!

They need to be put out of business! Trading standards, LABC. If they claimed to be part of a scheme, then details to the scheme provider.

We could almost do with a standard letter that can be sent to the various bodies.

Good and noble idea, probably fall on deaf ears when you hear about some of the crap, that's done by so called Sparkies that belong to the CP Schemes.