One back for the sparks!

[Darkwood]

Was in my local DIY super-chain setting up a trade account when a guy comes in and asks a member of staff on the adjoining desk if he can help him with a problem with his light he bought .... he asked if the store had an Electrician to which they said no... Me been a kind soul said maybe i could help.... after a few questions and answers I established the fitting he had bought worked fine and he had mixed his wiring up so I asked if he had a voltage tester YES! i was sold one here yesterday and he showed me a neon... in clear range of the staff i said you should never have been sold that as anything more than a terminal driver it is flawed in the very nature of how it works and in a worse case scenario relying on it could kill you. A senior staff member trying to back his floor staff up ask me how I could justify what I said....

Consider the failure of the neon and your customer here relies on it to see what is live or not!
Its also picks up induction that will give a false positive that something is live when it isn't!

I asked would he be happy to take responsibility for the customers safety because you are selling neon screwdrivers as voltage checkers to non competent customers.... 'We shall review this and how they are sold was his reply'

I also defended said store by telling the customer that we know the fitting works and that's where the stores responsibility ends and i would recommend you get a competent person in to fit this...... 'I built an house so thought a simple light fitting change wasn't beyond me' ...


The house that Jack built comes to mind but i remained tight lipped and expressed I can't help you out unless you want to pay a £60 call out fee as im an Electrical Engineer not a domestic sparks.... surprisingly he declined and walked out lol....

So i peed of the staff, peed off a customer then opened a trade account -- not bad for a Thurs morn!

 

[richy3333]

maybe if another MP's daughter gets electrocuted, part pee will be seen for the knee-jerk sham that it is and get booted into touch.

I caught the end of a comment on the radio the other day about a recent house fire where people died and they are now saying it was electrical - not sure if it was in scotland or not?

 

[Badged01]

I caught the end of a comment on the radio the other day about a recent house fire where people died and they are now saying it was electrical - not sure if it was in scotland or not?

Sadly it will take something like this to tighten up the industry and force then hand around electrical 'competency'!

 

[Guitarist]

I caught the end of a comment on the radio the other day about a recent house fire where people died and they are now saying it was electrical - not sure if it was in scotland or not?

Funny how a gas explosion gets headline on the BBC, yet the hundreds of house fires and deaths caused by electrical faults never get a mention. It's almost like somebody doesn't want people being put off DIY electrics...

 

[Geordie Spark]

I know, semi-retirement means Ive got far too much time on my hands! Need her indoors to give up the job so we can both b*gger off to live in the sun and leave you good folk on here in peace :smile5:

Until then, idle fingers.......

I know your situation only too well.

I just wish I could afford to get out of this God forsaken sh!t pit our country has become.

 

[UNG]

A “trained electrician” is competent at the time he’s trained. What makes you think he is still competent XX amount of years later? (what are these new RCD thingys people keep going on about, equipotential bonding you don’t need that, I use EBADS, what do you mean the 14[SUP]th[/SUP] edition isn’t valid etc…. etc...….) Aside from industrial electricians, where electrical works managers take an interest in updating his electricians, the self-employed “house basher” has no such governing body ensuring he’s competent to the latest standards and regulations.

So YES, IMHO someone who hasn’t been updated professionally won’t be competent and capable regardless of how many years he has had wiring plugs!. More importantly how do the unsuspecting public even know if he is competent to be working on their electrics?.

I don't know of any electricians across all sectors of the industry who trained under the 14th edition regs who are not aware of the 15th, 16th and 17th edition regs and are not conversant with them and have not evolved their skill set as the industry has changed and new products have come to market. These days there are people masquerading as electricians who are deemed competent by these Part P schemes and the homeowner doesn't know they if they are properly qualified to be working on their electrics.

My attitude has always been that if you don't keep up or ahead of the game then you are not going to survive in the industry

Part ‘P’ has nothing to do with 5 week courses! Part ‘P’ is there to decide if someone through a combination of experience, qualifications and training is competent to work in domestic premises. Which is my other point. IMHO Part ‘P’ currently isn’t good enough at assessing the competency of anybody to be able to work in domestic properties but the Govt disagrees and thinks it is!. I believe we need a better assessment system of an “electricians” competency that includes a measure of continuing professional development once ‘competency’ has been achieved.

I don't see how you can say that Part P has nothing to do with the 5 week course when all these courses do is produce domestic installers whose certificates are accepted by these Part P schemes as proof competence

Clearly you are an all knowing ‘time-served electrician’ at the front of his profession. I would highly recommend you apply to the various bodies to be on their panels to assess competency and also advise C&G on qualification requirements. The industry need you to get us out of this current predicament we are in ......

No I'm not all knowing as every day is a learning day, you seem to think electricians who qualified many years ago put their head in the sand and have learnt nothing from that day to this and are not now competent to work on electrics as they have not done any updating of their skills. What do you suggest a Electrical Trainee course to get up to date.

I can only think your comments reflect on your current skills and a lack of up to date knowledge of current electrical practices as I have worked with many older electricians cannot say they were not competent just because they qualified many years ago

 

[Badged01]

I don't know of any electricians across all sectors of the industry who trained under the 14th edition regs who are not aware of the 15th, 16th and 17th edition regs and are not conversant with them and have not evolved their skill set as the industry has changed and new products have come to market.

So you are now personally vouching for every electrician across all sectors (I assme you mean domestic, commercial & industrial) being fully conversant with current regs, best practise etc .. and competent to practise in the domestic market? …. Or could there possibly be ones out there that you don’t know who are incompetent?? Perhaps even ones who qualified as electricans, went to other jobs then many years later came back to work on houses without any upgrading?

These days there are people masquerading as electricians who are deemed competent by these Part P schemes and the homeowner doesn't know they if they are properly qualified to be working on their electrics. .

So if there wasn’t a Part ‘P’ how would the homeowner know who was ‘competent’ or not? (Although I do not believe the standards set for 'competency' by the schemes is not as high as it should be!) Or am I to assume your argument comes from your claim above? i.e. before before Part ‘P’ came into force every electrician continually keeping ahead of all regs and legislation within the industry to ensure they were competent? Now wasn’t this one of the reasons Part ‘P’ was introduced ....... ‘electricans’ weren’t?

I don't see how you can say that Part P has nothing to do with the 5 week course when all these courses do is produce domestic installers whose certificates are accepted by these Part P schemes as proof competence.

I take it you are not a member of a scheme, or if you are, you haven’t enquired with the assessors as to whether having completed a ‘5 week’ course gains you automatic registration? Have a chat with a few to enlighten yourself …… (Not saying that the odd 'bad' apple doesnt get through!)

you seem to think electricians who qualified many years ago put their head in the sand and have learnt nothing from that day to this and are not now competent to work on electrics as they have not done any updating of their skills.

That’s my whole point! Who does know, or not know, if they have or haven’t kept up to-date and are still ‘competent’. In the industrial sector we tended to do a very good job of maintaining competency standards for the industry requirement but outside of this who ensures the self-employed electrican are ‘competent’ for example? (or even the industrial electrician wanting to moonlight on the week-ends with houses??)

I can only think your comments reflect on your current skills and a lack of up to date knowledge of current electrical practices as I have worked with many older electricians cannot say they were not competent just because they qualified many years ago

How little you know about me! But my whole argument is around that as an industry we don’t have any on-going professional development to make sure every practising ‘electrician’ is fully conversant with current regs, best practise etc …… especially in the domestic sector. Your lucky that everyone you know has maintained themselves as ‘competent’ by doing where required relevant course, re-training, further study etc ….. I can however personally vouch for ‘electricians’ who I would call incompetent and in a previous existence as an electrical manager have sacked them! (Though that would be a politically incorrect statement now!) And I’ll bet I did’nt even scrap the tip of the 'incompetent' ice-berg out there …….

BUT I will get off my hobby horse and gracefully retire from the arena without any further comments on the subject as I know I prattle on too much …… well for now atleast ...... :wink_smile:

 

[Badged01]

I know your situation only too well.

I just wish I could afford to get out of this God forsaken sh!t pit our country has become.

I just wish I was younger and could leave her indoors at home and go myself ...... Im sure I could find a young "filly" to occupy my time until she arrived :wink_smile:

 

[tidyboiler]

I know your situation only too well.

I just wish I could afford to get out of this God forsaken sh!t pit our country has become.

Packing my bags ~ see you in 10. :wink_smile:

 

[Silly Sausage]

I know your situation only too well.

I just wish I could afford to get out of this God forsaken sh!t pit our country has become.

And move to an Independent Scotland!

 

[Badged01]

And move to an Independent Scotland!

ABSOLUTELY NO ...... The move implied was to somewhere that was warm and wasnt a sh*thole :wink_smile:

Edit ..... in no way am i implying that Scotland is warm!

 

[Geordie Spark]

And move to an Independent Scotland!

Not a bad idea.

I like the Jocks - you know where you stand with them.

Admittedly we Geordies did in the past have an issue with them when they kept sneaking over the border to steal our women and rape out cattle, but they seem to have calmed down a lot lately.

 

[Geordie Spark]

ABSOLUTELY NO ...... The move implied was to somewhere that was warm and wasnt a sh*thole :wink_smile:

That's why they created their Whisky distilling industry.

 

[Badged01]

That's why they created their Whisky distilling industry.

Fair point! A good malt is better than a woman ...... a woman is an occasional pleasure but a malt is always a whisky!

 

[Geordie Spark]

Fair point! A good malt is better than a woman ...... a woman is an occasional pleasure but a malt is always a whisky!

Aye .... mebbe so, but a good woman is always frisky!

 

[i=p/u]

Best thing said was ,head down forgot what he's saying loosing all unity. But we all need a wage so is look after number 1.

 

[guest119]

Best thing said was ,head down forgot what he's saying loosing all unity. But we all need a wage so is look after number 1.

You what???
Been on the amber nectar?


Boydy

 

[i=p/u]

No loyalties between workers left . Yes I'm wSted lol 10 weeks of if hours

- - - Updated - - -

Big hours, job hunting Monday again