UK Plastic chrome light switches

[philipbg]

Carried out an EICR where the lightning circuit is not earthed but like normal the customer has fitted metal chrome light switches.
The lights have the bit of 1.5 G&Y from the CU but don't go down to the switches.
Does anyone know of a manufacturer that makes plastic switches that have a painted chrome effect.

 

[westward10]

Never get involved with this type of thing either they stump up for rewiring as necessary or walk away, do not make it your problem. Are the switch back boxes metal.

 

[brianmoooore]

Do double insulated light switches & sockets exist & do I need them?

Do double insulated light switches & sockets exist & do I need them? One double insulated lighting question that we are asked time and...

double-insulated.blogspot.com

 

[Welchyboy1]

When in a similar situation myself before now I have removed the existing chrome class1 switch and installed a white pvc switch plate with nylon screws then stuck these on the top

Light Switch Cover Plate Conversion in Victorian chrome Single / Double stick on | eBay

Designed to fit over a mainstream UK light switch. Double Switch aperture: 44mm x 34mm. Single Switch aperture: 20mm x 34mm. Choose double or single from the drop down box.

www.ebay.co.uk

i suppose you could call it a class2 chrome switch of sorts

about as close as you can get safety wise to double insulated and hopefully keeps the customer happy

gotta be safer than those “class 2“ chrome light fittings that are really class1 with a crappy enclosure instead and no earth connection

 

[westward10]

When in a similar situation myself before now I have installed a white pvc switch plate with nylon screws then stuck these on the top

Light Switch Cover Plate Conversion in Victorian chrome Single / Double stick on | eBay

Designed to fit over a mainstream UK light switch. Double Switch aperture: 44mm x 34mm. Single Switch aperture: 20mm x 34mm. Choose double or single from the drop down box.

www.ebay.co.uk

i suppose you could call it a class2 chrome switch of sorts

about as close as you can get safety wise to double insulated and hopefully keeps the customer happy

gotta be safer than those “class 2“ chrome light fittings that are really class1 with a crappy enclosure instead and no earth connection

Assuming this is a dwelling you cannot use Class II as a means of protection.

 

[nicebutdim]

Do double insulated light switches & sockets exist & do I need them?

Do double insulated light switches & sockets exist & do I need them? One double insulated lighting question that we are asked time and...

double-insulated.blogspot.com

While there's some factual information in that blog, quite a bit of it is terrible. Seems to have been written by a salesman.

 

[timhoward]

Assuming this is a dwelling you cannot use Class II as a means of protection.

Another pound in the Class II Dwelling box....!

 

[brianmoooore]

When in a similar situation myself before now I have removed the existing chrome class1 switch and installed a white pvc switch plate with nylon screws then stuck these on the top

The metal flush boxes from back in the day when cpcs weren't always present, had threaded plastic blocks for the faceplate screws to screw into, so the problem didn't arise.
When I've come across all metal boxes, where no cpc is present, I've also used plastic screws, but wasn't there a thread recently where the conclusion was that unearthed metal fixing screws don't present a danger because they can't be grasped?

 

[Welchyboy1]

Assuming this is a dwelling you cannot use Class II as a means of protection.

i do understand your point but surely in the real world, the original installation was indeed intended to be class 2 by design and although not strictly compliant with the current regulations
By removing a potentially hazardous situation and returning it to its original design, from a probable C2 situation to a likely C3, you would be hard pushed for someone to have issue with you doing so, ensuring you include the necessary caveats in the paperwork

I would be happy to proceed with this line under the circumstances that a full circuit rewire is either not practicable and/or not affordable

Rather than just walk away from the issue

Especially when I’m dealing with regular customers that I have a good working relationship with

As is the case with many of the EICRs and CU changes that throws up this issue for me

 

[Welchyboy1]

The metal flush boxes from back in the day when cpcs weren't always present, had threaded plastic blocks for the faceplate screws to screw into, so the problem didn't arise.
When I've come across all metal boxes, where no cpc is present, I've also used plastic screws, but wasn't there a thread recently where the conclusion was that unearthed metal fixing screws don't present a danger because they can't be grasped?

Yes let’s be honest, the chance of getting a shock off a recessed screw head on a plastic plate is absolutely minuscule
But there’s certainly no harm in just chucking a pack of nylon screws in your screw box and using them when the situation arises

 

[timhoward]

For me this particular example isn't a typical "no CPC in lighting circuit case" as there is a CPC at the fittings but either switch drops haven't been updated or they've been badly installed and the CPC is chopped off. So it wasn't as though this was once compliant, someone has taken a conscious decision to do half a job or a bad job.
In this case it would seem easiest (though quite expensive) to change to quinetic / ener-J switches.

Something that doesn't get mentioned too much is a practical reality that if you find a lighting circuit with no CPC and can't do an R1+R2 test it's still very much worth checking R1 continuity at the switches. I managed to miss some neutral switching a long time ago when I ignorantly thought I can't do an R1+R2 so no point.

 

[brianmoooore]

For me this particular example isn't a typical "no CPC in lighting circuit case" as there is a CPC at the fittings but either switch drops haven't been updated or they've been badly installed and the CPC is chopped off. So it wasn't as though this was once compliant, someone has taken a conscious decision to do half a job or a bad job.

You're making the mistake of looking at this in terms of modern standards and thinking.
Back in the day, there were the odd class one light fittings used in an installation, such as outside lights and the occasional decorative metal fitting, so it was normal to use twin and earth on one or more of the lighting trunks, but at the time there was absolutely no prospect of needing an earth at an internal domestic light switch. Even metal flush boxes had threaded plastic blocks for the fixing screws and an unfinished earth terminal.
There is even a safety argument for using twin with no earth for the switch drop. If damage occurred to a twin cable and it shorted out, the lamp would flicker and light, and a relatively small amount of heat would be generated at the site of the fault. If it was twin and earth that was similarly damaged, current would flow from live to earth, producing large quantities of heat, until the 5A fuse wire (or possibly 15A, if the fault had been intermittent) finally gives up.

 

[timhoward]

Back in the day, there were the odd class one light fittings used in an installation, such as outside lights and the occasional decorative metal fitting, so it was normal to use twin and earth on one or more of the lighting trunks, but at the time there was absolutely no prospect of needing an earth at an internal domestic light switch.

I see, so this could be the original setup.
I can't help thinking that while your comment is fair about modern standards and thinking, 'modern' does now encompass the last 67 years and it's probably about time some of this wiring was retired, earthed or not!

 

[brianmoooore]

it's probably about time some of this wiring was retired, earthed or not!

Does that extend to the sparkies that fitted it?

 

[philipbg]

Never get involved with this type of thing either they stump up for rewiring as necessary or walk away, do not make it your problem. Are the switch back boxes metal.

Metal back boxes with plastic lugs.

 

[philipbg]

i do understand your point but surely in the real world, the original installation was indeed intended to be class 2 by design and although not strictly compliant with the current regulations
By removing a potentially hazardous situation and returning it to its original design, from a probable C2 situation to a likely C3, you would be hard pushed for someone to have issue with you doing so, ensuring you include the necessary caveats in the paperwork

I would be happy to proceed with this line under the circumstances that a full circuit rewire is either not practicable and/or not affordable

Rather than just walk away from the issue

Especially when I’m dealing with regular customers that I have a good working relationship with

As is the case with many of the EICRs and CU changes that throws up this issue for me

The inspection came backnas unsatisfactory because of the chrome switches.
In most cases i would recommend a rewire as i have on the cert but of course the owners have spent thousands on redecorating & then decided on an EICR.

 

[timhoward]

Does that extend to the sparkies that fitted it?

Certainly not - they will be the most experienced in the land and I enjoy learning from them!

 

[suffolkspark]

The metal flush boxes from back in the day when cpcs weren't always present, had threaded plastic blocks for the faceplate screws to screw into, so the problem didn't arise.
When I've come across all metal boxes, where no cpc is present, I've also used plastic screws, but wasn't there a thread recently where the conclusion was that unearthed metal fixing screws don't present a danger because they can't be grasped?

Yes i remember this, somebody found a reg that said it didnt matter for the screws. Ive just done an EICR on a house with all lights earthed, but switch back boxes arent, and the house has all exposed oak beams and floor boards and no real voids to re wire it without being very destructive. Havnt yet decided what to do

 

[Welchyboy1]

I see, so this could be the original setup.
I can't help thinking that while your comment is fair about modern standards and thinking, 'modern' does now encompass the last 67 years and it's probably about time some of this wiring was retired, earthed or not!

From reading the post I interpreted it that the original wiring was 1960's odd, PVC two core only and at a later date an additional single core CPC has been run in to earth the ceiling lights, the OP says G&Y, if it was existing it would of been bare wire with no insulation

I fully agree that this is old wiring from a bygone era and should be replaced when ever possible, but its not always possible in a real world scenario and sometimes you have to be a little realistic and pragmatic

 

[Welchyboy1]

Yes i remember this, somebody found a reg that said it didnt matter for the screws. Ive just done an EICR on a house with all lights earthed, but switch back boxes arent, and the house has all exposed oak beams and floor boards and no real voids to re wire it without being very destructive. Havnt yet decided what to do

Do they have class 1 switches