Plastic compression glands for T&E into metal CU

[Leesparkykent]

Or use Dewalt wall dogs and you don't need plugs.

 

[sparksburnout]

Wall dogs (good masonry screws) do the job very well and are a faster install than using any type of fixing.

There are reports that show the plastic wall plugs melting and the consumer unit falling from the wall well before the house is destroyed.

Are there?? Have you got a link to one??? What a load of rubbish. As has already been said the heat sinking properties of a masonry wall into which a plastic plug has been fixed will keep it in place for well beyond the effects of smoke inhalation and spread of fire will have rendered life in such a building over.

 

[Nickj]

There is one in another thread. I'll take a look for you and try to remember to post tomorrow

 

[Pat H]

It all comes back to the responsibility of the installer should anything happen.
If in the future there was a fire and it was considered the CU had come away what then of the installer?
If you have installed in way that helped prevent that then not only are you covered but possibly you've help limit a danger.
Seems to me a simple step for little extra cost or time for maybe a very small additional bit of protection.

 

[sparksburnout]

It all comes back to the responsibility of the installer should anything happen.
If in the future there was a fire and it was considered the CU had come away what then of the installer?
If you have installed in way that helped prevent that then not only are you covered but possibly you've help limit a danger.
Seems to me a simple step for little extra cost or time for maybe a very small additional bit of protection.

I'm sorry but I think this is just absolute nonsense. I do not accept that such a fixing would fail unless the building involved was an absolute blazing inferno. If you are seriously worried about this then I have no idea how you ever get to sleep at night?

 

[Pat H]

I don't worry about it. Its an easy thing to not worry about. Just fix with a non plastic fitting.

 

[sparksburnout]

I don't worry about it. Its an easy thing to not worry about. Just fix with a non plastic fitting.

OK, well done, Carry on...

 

[Leesparkykent]

Fire performance of cable supports - IET Electrical - http://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/58/bre-report/index.cfm

@Nickj here's the document you referred to and its fire 2 results that links the collapse to the wall plugs melting after approximately 20 minutes.

I agree with @Pat H that for the added little expense and no real extra time actually carrying out the work than the conventional method warrants it if you don't mind going above and beyond what's required.

 

[sparksburnout]

Fire performance of cable supports - IET Electrical - http://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/58/bre-report/index.cfm

@Nickj here's the document you referred to and its fire 2 results that links the collapse to the wall plugs melting after approximately 20 minutes.

I agree with @Pat H that for the added little expense and no real extra time actually carrying out the work than the conventional method warrants it if you don't mind going above and beyond what's required.

Oh for goodness sake this is ridiculous. The document is referring to cable systems in mostly non-domestic situations where fire fighters have been trapped by cables collapsing into fire escape routes, not domestic CU's falling off the wall!!

 

[westward10]

What is it about a straightforward task like fitting a metal CU that causes soo.. many problems, is it just me.

 

[sparksburnout]

What is it about a straightforward task like fitting a metal CU that causes soo.. many problems, is it just me.

No

 

[westward10]

Makes me want to weep.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Oh for goodness sake this is ridiculous. The document is referring to cable systems in mostly non-domestic situations where fire fighters have been trapped by cables collapsing into fire escape routes, not domestic CU's falling off the wall!!

Yeah I was just pointing out the document which refers to the premature collapse due to wall plugs, so they might not be as robust in the event of a fire as you think.

 

[sparksburnout]

Makes me want to weep.

Don't worry about the IR values, continuity, CPC's in lighting circuits, Earthing, Bonding, labelling, discrimination, accessibility, neatness or other quality of workmanship, or all that nasty paperwork and stuff, just make sure the bloody things rammed onto the wall with at least 4 coach bolts.

 

[Harwoodandy]

What is it about a straightforward task like fitting a metal CU that causes soo.. many problems, is it just me.

No its not.

I think there is a certain amount of blindness and distraction in "being compliant" that results in the obvious being overlooked. Would any domestic scheme even examine the means of fixing a CU to a wall? I think not, hopefully they would be more interested in the installers competence at not electrocuting somebody or causing a fire hazard in the first place.

 

[Pete999]

http://i.stack.Upload the image directly to the thread.com/ou9oP.jpg

Yes OK

 

[Pat H]

No its not.

I think there is a certain amount of blindness and distraction in "being compliant" that results in the obvious being overlooked. Would any domestic scheme even examine the means of fixing a CU to a wall? I think not, hopefully they would be more interested in the installers competence at not electrocuting somebody or causing a fire hazard in the first place.

That is true. The whole point metal enclosures have come in is due to shoddy installation and DIY work. Those folks won't give a hoot about the regs and will do whatever they want so the risk there is no less.
But at least having regs in place means that when it does go wrong its easier to pull them to account.
So as you say a well done installation shouldn't catch fire anyway so why need a metal enclosure even? But what if a year down the line a DIYer adds an additional circuit and leaves the screws loose to the feed to their new hot tub?
Its not just our work then ant there that matters its what happened later as well. I'll be using metal fixings anyway. So if you come across a CU fixed with metal fixings it will be one of mine as I'm the only one doing it

 

[Midwest]

Dear oh dear. How do we get from a CU to made of a non combustible material or installed in a non combustible cabinet or enclosure, i.e. reg 421.1.201, to a CU that contains a fire, should be sealed with intumescent material and fixed with non melting fixings. The whole point of 421.1.201 was to remove a source of fuel (the plastic enclosure) from any possible fire. Next someone's gonna suggest metal MCB's.

You just saying this to take my mind off Trump

 

[charlie76]

Let me know if you find some metal rawl plugs

Eddy currents on a SP&N CU Get real

These are available, we use them regularly in fire alarm installations for cables passing through escape routes.

 

[charlie76]

Next someone's gonna suggest metal MCB's.

Well since you mention it I have been putting intumescent sealer all over the back of MCB's to ensure that a fire is well contained within the consumer unit. I am currently working on a miniature fire suppression system to discharge FE227 into the consumer unit when the internal fire alarm system in the unit detects smoke. I am also considering fire shutters to the front face, belt and braces and all that. And before someone thinks I am cutting corners, a smoke extract system has been installed within the consumer unit.