Plastic consumer units and how to code them

[Mike Johnson]

I am so old school I have worn my teeth out.

 

[old man sparky]

Did you not read the above? Because you are recommending improvement

I did, just wondered if there may have been more to your reply. Nothing more. ??

 

[old man sparky]

Thanks for the replies, as said we all have our reasons for coding these things or not coding as we feel fit.
For what its worth, I like most have seen these reports gain page after page as times gone on. In particular the Inspection schedule has become very comprehensive.
So looking at section 4 and in particular 4.4
I feel where plastic CUs are concerned, we have little choice but to C3 as an absolute minimum. If Regulation 421.1.201 isn't met. ie condition of enclosure in terms of fire rating. Then I will be covering my proverbial. Sometimes I see these schedules as trick question scenarios.
So default Code 3 thankyou IMHO.
As said cover your arse, its your signature.

 

[UNG]

So looking at section 4 and in particular 4.4
I feel where plastic CUs are concerned, we have little choice but to C3 as an absolute minimum. If Regulation 421.1.201 isn't met. ie condition of enclosure in terms of fire rating. Then I will be covering my proverbial. Sometimes I see these schedules as trick question scenarios.
So default Code 3 thankyou IMHO.
As said cover your arse, its your signature.

The condition in terms of fire rating of which "enclosure" are you referring to?

Since January 2016 Amendment No. 3 to BS 7671 (421.1.201)IET Wiring Regulations states that within domestic (household) premises, consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies shall have their enclosures manufactured from non combustible material, or be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of non combustible material and comply with product standard BS EN 61439-3.

Not quite sure where a properly fire lined cupboard under the stairs works with BS EN 61439-3

 

[old man sparky]

As per the eicrs section 4 of the schedules 4.4 the consumer units enclosure itself. Granted if its in a non combustible enclosure then the relevant reg would be satisfied and compliant. But most pre AMD 3 consumer units are simply mounted as installed as indeed they would be. But under those conditions the schedule ie 4.4 leaves you with little choice but to give it some code ie 3. As a plastic c/u by definition is not constructed of non combustible material. IMHO.

 

[Julie.]

Thanks for the replies, as said we all have our reasons for coding these things or not coding as we feel fit.
For what its worth, I like most have seen these reports gain page after page as times gone on. In particular the Inspection schedule has become very comprehensive.
So looking at section 4 and in particular 4.4
I feel where plastic CUs are concerned, we have little choice but to C3 as an absolute minimum. If Regulation 421.1.201 isn't met. ie condition of enclosure in terms of fire rating. Then I will be covering my proverbial. Sometimes I see these schedules as trick question scenarios.
So default Code 3 thankyou IMHO.
As said cover your arse, its your signature.

So C3 absolutely as it doesn't 100% comply with 421.1.201 - I understand

So I assume C3 - no question if the installation doesn't comply with 514.4.1 or 514.4.5 as well?

(Cables not coloured blue; brown, black, grey, blue)


Surely if we decide that anything not 100% compliant with the latest standard must be C3 as a minimum, this applies across the board, not just specific areas such as cu's

 

[old man sparky]

So C3 absolutely as it doesn't 100% comply with 421.1.201 - I understand

So I assume C3 - no question if the installation doesn't comply with 514.4.1 or 514.4.5 as well?

(Cables not coloured blue; brown, black, grey, blue)


Surely if we decide that anything not 100% compliant with the latest standard must be C3 as a minimum, this applies across the board, not just specific areas such as cu's

Its the implications as per the schedule and specifically section 4s 4.4 that leaves you with limited options. Its not about retrospective installations. Ie installs that complied with older versions of BS 7671, not necessarily having to comply with latest versions. Its more specific than that. Its about how you respond and classify to that particular section on consumer units and there enclosures. As said I cant see that the way the eicr phrases that particular section gives you much by way of options. I like most have read it many times, and still come to a C3 conclusion in most instances. But then, thats my view, but always interesting to discuss other viewpoints on this. As said we all need to cover ourselves when signing these things.

 

[Julie.]

Its the implications as per the schedule and specifically section 4s 4.4 that leaves you with limited options. Its not about retrospective installations. Ie installs that complied with older versions of BS 7671, not necessarily having to comply with latest versions. Its more specific than that. Its about how you respond and classify to that particular section on consumer units and there enclosures. As said I cant see that the way the eicr phrases that particular section gives you much by way of options. I like most have read it many times, and still come to a C3 conclusion in most instances. But then, thats my view, but always interesting to discuss other viewpoints on this. As said we all need to cover ourselves when signing these things.

Why does it leave you with limited options? 5.1 would leave you with the same options for identification of conductors.

Compliance (or not) with any previous standards does not form part of periodic inspections, the question is: is the installation satisfactory or unsatisfactory? (~ reasonably safe vs unsafe) - the same non-compliance such as premature wiring collapse - it may have been compliant with a previous standard (which is irrelevant) may generate C2, C3, or nothing, - if the cable is unsupported such that failure could cause entrapment - C2 ; if the failure wouldn't case any issue then depending upon the severity it may be C3, or perhaps just an honourable mention.

I see no difference in any other aspect, the plastic cu may be C2, C3, or mention; cable identification perhaps C3 or mention, or nothing at all, cable supports, etc etc.

 

[old man sparky]

Why does it leave you with limited options? 5.1 would leave you with the same options for identification of conductors.

Compliance (or not) with any previous standards does not form part of periodic inspections, the question is: is the installation satisfactory or unsatisfactory? (~ reasonably safe vs unsafe) - the same non-compliance such as premature wiring collapse - it may have been compliant with a previous standard (which is irrelevant) may generate C2, C3, or nothing, - if the cable is unsupported such that failure could cause entrapment - C2 ; if the failure wouldn't case any issue then depending upon the severity it may be C3, or perhaps just an honourable mention.

I see no difference in any other aspect, the plastic cu may be C2, C3, or mention; cable identification perhaps C3 or mention, or nothing at all, cable supports, etc etc.

We differ in our opinions on this one. I cant see how red and black vs brown and blue can be compared to a consumer unit by virtue of its build material having the ability to contain a fire. So I wouldn't lose any sleep over 5.1. Or not coding it as long as conductors have been correctly connected and identified. And if an electrician has to be warned by a label that an installation contains wiring to 2 versions of BS 7671, then I would question there competence.
Its all about the hows and whys of personal judgements. But I just feel that sometimes, the way these things are written leaves a lot of grey areas.

 

[loz2754]

Electrical Safety First best practice guide 4 allows for C2, C3, or no code depending on various factors.