Qualifications needed

[Jamierp]

hi all,
Just searching for a bit of advice on qualifications
I have been asked to look into
We are branching into securty alarm systems and fitting, the fitting of the system we are all trained up on how to do it's wireless so radio signal or 4 core alarm cabling however we have to wire the control panel to a 1A Spur and this is where the snag is, I would deem myself a competent person ( worked in computer networking for years and have moved many a socket etc in my own homes and worked along side sparkys doing wiring) so I'm well aware of the safety and wiring to use etc and can safety turn off a DB and wire in where needed be it at the DB on a dedicated circuit or branched off a power socket.
This will be in a residential and commercial setting, the information I have found so far and from this website actually suggests to show that as long as our work shows BS7671 standard and complied with EWAR we could be ok ? But just would like to gain some clarity and knowledge ?
Thank you again all
Jp

 

[Pete999]

hi all,
Just searching for a bit of advice on qualifications
I have been asked to look into
We are branching into securty alarm systems and fitting, the fitting of the system we are all trained up on how to do it's wireless so radio signal or 4 core alarm cabling however we have to wire the control panel to a 1A Spur and this is where the snag is, I would deem myself a competent person ( worked in computer networking for years and have moved many a socket etc in my own homes and worked along side sparkys doing wiring) so I'm well aware of the safety and wiring to use etc and can safety turn off a DB and wire in where needed be it at the DB on a dedicated circuit or branched off a power socket.
This will be in a residential and commercial setting, the information I have found so far and from this website actually suggests to show that as long as our work shows BS7671 standard and complied with EWAR we could be ok ? But just would like to gain some clarity and knowledge ?
Thank you again all
Jp

A new circuit requires an EIC Electrical Installation Certificate, and a spur requires a MNWC Minor New Works Certificate, both require testing to BS 7671

 

[Jamierp]

A new circuit requires an EIC Electrical Installation Certificate, and a spur requires a MNWC Minor New Works Certificate, both require testing to BS 7671

Hi Pete,
Thanks for that information, so what qualifications would we need to hold to do this ? we are asking as financially it seems silly to get a electrician in for just that one small part as we would have done the rest ourselves
JP

 

[Pete999]

Hi Pete,
Thanks for that information, so what qualifications would we need to hold to do this ? we are asking as financially it seems silly to get a electrician in for just that one small part as we would have done the rest ourselves
JP

Ask yourself the question, do you have the expertise, knowledge to install and test these new circuits or additions, do you have the right test equipment? then if the answer to the questions is no then you should employ and Electrician, the usual way these days would be to go on a short course, not my cup of tea, but its the norm these days. I have seen far to many bodge jobs by alarm engineers who think it's a simple job to install a supply to the panel, IP compromised, wrong cable used, wrong installation methods used, I could go on. and as you are starting a new venture, do it right the first time.

 

[Jamierp]

Hi Pete, That is what I'm kind of trying to get at, I would deem myself competent and I have on a number of time undertaken personally this kind of work, the test equipment is not a issue as a company we would purchase the required it is just trying to work out what course would be best suited for this level of undertaking

 

[Pete999]

Hi Pete, That is what I'm kind of trying to get at, I would deem myself competent and I have on a number of time undertaken personally this kind of work, the test equipment is not a issue as a company we would purchase the required it is just trying to work out what course would be best suited for this level of undertaking

As an old timer the qualifications these days tend to baffle me, To be honest I don't know the minimum qualification required, one of the younger chaps would know. contact one of the numerous training establishment for advice would be the best bet.

uk electrical training centers - Yahoo Search Results - https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=uk+electrical+training+centers&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-102&type=default

 

[The Ghost]

I think as @Pete999 said can you test it? Do you have the test equipment and can you use it properly? So for instance you fit a spur do not do an IR test and there is a partial short for whatever reason it turns into a fire. You will be asked who installed it and what is their competence? If you did not do tests and issue cert. for proof that the circuit complies with BS7671, well it could get a bit sticky!
Deeming yourself competent would not meet the standards required for a competent person. I think the courses you need to do are an excess in terms of what you are trying to cover. If you can stand in court and show the court the cert. and your understanding and test results you are fine. Also you should ask your insurers whether you will be covered in the event of a liability arising, I think they will say NO! I think one of the things easily missed here is adding a spur is quite simple, what is not simple is being sure that the circuit you are adding it to is safe to do so. That is where training and experience come in to play.

 

[Edtwozeronine]

I thought after doing Part P you could sign off your own work regarding additions to existing installations. At least that is my plan after finishing my course and becoming self-employed.

 

[Wilko]

Just to add 20p - perhaps check with your insurance provider what qualifications they deem appropriate? Afaik the cost of insurance for security alarm work has a premium, due to claims of loss if the worst happens and the alarm is found not properly designed / installed.

Maybe look to find a Spark with an interest in security and they will ensure the required standards are met, records kept, certificates produced, test instruments in calibration and building approvals obtained where they may be required.

 

[Wilko]

I thought after doing Part P you could sign off your own work regarding additions to existing installations. At least that is my plan after finishing my course and becoming self-employed.

Sort of - when you say "doing Part P" that's an invented phrase for a collection of short courses in electrics. Whether these qualifications are accepted by your local building control folks as sufficient to accept a certificate from you is really up to them. Many threads on the topic I'm sure.

 

[The Ghost]

Part P is a one day course which in no way would qualify you to sign off your own work. It is really just to say you have met building reg. requirements.

 

[Jay Sparks]

To answer the question, you don't need any qualification to install, test and certificate your own work. You have to be "electrically skilled/competent". There are many ways of proving this. However, if the work is notifiable (Part P), then you will need to either register with a scam, or notify building control before you start each job and they will send someone out to inspect, test and certificate the work. Registering with a scam is the probably cheapest way to notify LBC but they will require you to have some qualifications, or to take their own 5 week course. But as said above, this does not make you a qualified electrician IMO!

Cheers

Jay