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  1. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    Hi all,
    I have just bought a house with the intention of selling on.
    So I am wondering-
    if I add more sockets to the system rather then replacing all the wiring
    If I make sure the light in bathroom is outside the required zones
    Put a combi boiler in so that there is no need for electric shower or immersion heater
    And put a gas hob in
    Do I need the work to be notified to building control?
    I have attached picture of fuseboard- ignore the tape as it is only for selling purposes- house sold as seen!
    I am a plumber and can do electrics but as I am selling it I want to know regulations and get it right!
    If it does need to be certified- do any electricians just test it or is it a case of wanting to do all the work yourself to certify it?
    Part p states that an electrician can sign it off but what do electricians think of this regulation and the risks involved!
    I know I would never sign someone else's gas work off but I would with plumbing work!
    Finally any electricians in the County Durham area that would like to quote for work please pm me!

    View attachment 35937
     
  2. Taylortwocities
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    Taylortwocities Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    These are the notification requirements
    [​IMG]

    So not notifiable to LABC. But you should be writing out Minor Works certificates to confirm that your electrical work complies with BS7671. You'll be using your calibrated test equipment to do this, of course;)
     
  3. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    I can't see an earth.... Is it a TT system?
     
  4. bigspark17
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    bigspark17 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    wales
     
  5. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    No idea- there is an earth coming outside the consumer unit on left side
     
  6. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    I can't see any comment Bigspark17?
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  7. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    Confused!
     
  8. Taylortwocities
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    Taylortwocities Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Yes, you need to trace where that goes to.
    There is also an earth conductor from the top right of the CU disappearing into the ceiling. you need to trace where that goes to.

    Its a new consumer unit, only a year old. You should have been given the Installation certificate for the consumer unit as part of the house documents. The first page of that certificate will tell you what the supply type is.
     
  9. Andy78
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    Andy78 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    The last inspection date may have been an EICR. It looks like an insulated CU to me
     
  10. richy3333
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    richy3333 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    UK
    IP rating on the CU is also compromised?
     
  11. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    We complete in 3 weeks so will get that paperwork on completion- however I am assuming that this hasn't been certified or notified to building control in which case it may need to be tested and inspected!
    But I assume that this is easily done?
    I have been to many jobs where the customer says- It was like that when we moved in!
    And asked for certification!!
    It is obvious that it has just been installed by the colour of the pipe and the amount the customer knows about the work!
    So I dont want to go down this route.

    But will any electrician sign it off if all cables are visible, all trunking installed and not plastered over until inspected etc?
     
  12. Taylortwocities
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    Taylortwocities Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    True. Then he should have a copy of the report - this also will confirm the supply type.
     
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  13. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    why do you say that?
     
  14. Taylortwocities
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    Taylortwocities Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire

    What do you mean by "sign it off"

    Under the CPS scheme agreement, only the registered installer can self-notify.
    If no notification was made, you may need to get this regularised. There's a cost for that, ask the LABC. Have your solicitor tell you what documents are provided in the bundle relating to this notifiable work. It all may be kosher!!
    If it is not the get a reduction in the house price to cover your costs to get it sorted.
     
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  15. Andy78
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    Andy78 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    If you get a certificate/report handed over dated 7/16 as stated on the CU then this should give a fair and up to date indication of the state of the system.
    No other electrician should be signing any certificates or notifications for work they did not carry out and have no knowledge of.
     
  16. Taylortwocities
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    Taylortwocities Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    He means there should be no holes in the top of the CU.
    The W.R. require that accessible top surfaces of encosuresmust be at least IP4X. That means no gaps bigger than 1mm are permitted in the top.
    From the picture, it looks like the cables come through the top of the CU. But the cables may come from behind, or they may have been sealed. Needs a closer look though.....
     
  17. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

  18. Andy78
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    Andy78 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    OK, third party certification and notification is like this.
    Not all schemes allow this process despite the legislation being in place to allow it. Those schemes that do allow it insist that the electrician signing for the work has inspected it at first fix to ensure compliance of the installation with BS7671, as well as inspection and testing at completion.
    As it is now after the fact this option will not be possible. As Taylor says LABC will decide how they want to proceed in this situation.
     
  19. Taylortwocities
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    Taylortwocities Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Yes. But neither of those relate to work done over 9 months ago!!

    Also the "registered third party" category is one that was dreamt up by the Part P committee without the buy in of the Competent Person schemes. So just because they have created a "registered third party" category, does not mean that there are many.
    Note that this is a special category allowed by the very few CPS that took it on (most either did not or could not get any of their members interested.
    So your regular registered electrician will still not be able to do this.

    One or two of the sparking brain surgeons on here may have the 'third party' badge though ......

    anybody..???????? Hello........????
     
  20. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    Ok, thank you, so is this the same for minor works? I am not what i would class as "competent" at testing, so even if I bought the equipment I would not know how to use it.
     
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  21. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    Nice clips on those tails
     
  22. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    Thats my biggest worry- get building control in and they fail it- pay twice plus electrician to fix problems
     
  23. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    so you have to complete 5 different qualifications to become an electrician- spend thousands on test equipment and then £600 odd on CPS and they change the regulations to let any tom, dick and harry do there own electrics- Glad I am not an electrician. Are they looking to change this? surely the biggest cause of fires is people putting cheap spotlights in loft right next to beams, paper and insulation? Yet the regulations are so confusing that anybody thinks they can do it.
    At least with Gas Safe they have a hard and fast rule- nobody touch any Gas appliance or pipework
    Its kind of like if they said anybody could play with a boiler but can not touch the gas components!!
     
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  24. spinlondon
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    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    Actually, with Corgi/Gas Safe, anyone can do gas work without being registered, as long as they don't get paid for doing the work.
     
  25. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    3.—(1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.

    (2) The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer, every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent of such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such work to be carried out at any place of work under his control shall ensure that paragraph (1) above is complied with in relation to such work.

    (3) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above and subject to paragraph (4) below, no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph.

    (4) The requirements of paragraph (3) above shall not apply in respect of—

    (a)the replacement of a hose or regulator on a portable or mobile space heater; or

    (b)the replacement of a hose connecting a re-fillable cylinder to installation pipework.
     
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  26. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    "The following are examples of what may constitute ‘bringing the Gas Safe Register into disrepute’. This is not an exhaustive list but should be considered as indicative:

    Using unregistered engineers to carry out gas work or signing off others’ gas work as your own"

    The gas safe is 1 cps scheme that everyone recognizes and knows- not 6-8 different schemes with different requirements
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  27. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    I know a few gas guys who sign off unregistered guys work....
     
  28. Rpa07
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    Rpa07 2000 posts - only 46379 behind Telectrix! Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bristol
    Business Name:
    Ebenezer electrical
    Don't be angry about it - it's not our fault, it frustrates us as well.
    Do as Taylor in #14 said and get your solicitor to ascertain what certificates are available - if there are non then have a jiggle with the purchase price or if you have to cough up yourself when you have the place and get an EICR performed on the place. Any remedials can be negotiated with the electrician to bring you right up to selling state. You can't do everything yourself so hand that one out and pay for it.
    Just my opinion. Ps. I won't do any plumbing in my place - dirty messy stuff is water!
     
  29. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    Please Please Please report them- Not because I want all the work myself but simply because they are putting peoples lives in risk!
    It is impossible to check every part of an installation on a check after the work has been completed.
    I know several gas engineers who have been called back because screws were missing on the boilers.
    Flues are sealed in the wall and can not be inspected once they have been installed, if this is wrong this can leak products of combustion into the cavity.
    If they are good friends then speak to them about what they are doing and the risks involved.
    You wouldn't get on a plane if you knew they hadn't done any safety checks, would you?
     
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  30. spinlondon
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    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    Yes, as I said, no requirement to be registered unless being paid for the work.
     
  31. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    Not angry, just feel sorry for you guys! I always wonder what if the customer pulls the boiler apart once I leave and have signed it off- but you guys are signing something off with a guarantee that they will almost always mess about with it as soon as you leave
     
  32. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    I assume you are winding me up?
     
  33. spinlondon
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    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    No, see 3.-(1).
     
  34. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    They are not friends.... Just guys I know....

    As a spark I never sign off anyone's work....
     
  35. Rpa07
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    Rpa07 2000 posts - only 46379 behind Telectrix! Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bristol
    Business Name:
    Ebenezer electrical
    Everyday is the year of living dangerously - I use a voltage indicator on the front door bell, I'm so suspicious!
     
  36. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

  37. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2)
     
  38. spinlondon
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    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    Just thump on the door, don't risk the doorbell.
     
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  39. spinlondon
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    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    3.-(3) applies to employees or self employed persons.
    In effect anyone doing the work for remuneration or payment.
     
  40. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    I always test the screws on sockets before undoing them
     
  41. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    3.—(1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.
     
  42. spinlondon
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    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
  43. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    If you can prove competence, you are allowed legally to diy gas in your own home. This does not however, apply to doing gas work for family and friends even if without charge. (This has been confirmed by the HSE)

    Competence is only proven by passing ACS exams and having the appropriate equipment and ability to carry out certain safety tests required by law.

    Please note if you ignore this advice:

    1) If you are found working illegally, (not gas competent), you are breaking the law and the H.S.E. can prosecute. Example HERE
    2) You will be putting your family at risk of Carbon Monoxide poisoning.
    3) Your insurance co is likely to reject any claims being caused by DIY gas work.

    Read more: DIY GAS - https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/diy-gas.8090/#ixzz4boK5R647
     
  44. spinlondon
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    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    Problem here, is that the question of competency would only arise if something were to go wrong.
    As for the stuff about having to pass the ACS exams, that's just not the case at all.
    There are installations which are exempt from the requirements of the Legislation. The persons working at such installations are not required to be registered, or hold any ACS qualifications.
    Such people would generally be deemed competent.
     
  45. jase158
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    jase158 DIY

    Yeah these are clearly defined- If I was to research it properly the definition of "competent" is even defined clearly in plain English. Trust me it is covered.

    This is why I posted this thread as in Gas everything is covered, if its not in the gas regulations then it is in the manufacturers installation instructions, which supersede the regulations or in the Gas safe regulations, every stone has been turned every dot has been crossed every t has been crossed.

    And if that isn't enough- you can be done for impersonating a government official for falsely pretending to be gas safe registered whether that is when you sell the house or when the house explodes and kills all the neighbors.
    And then you will find it impossible to sell the house without a building control certificate for the boiler.
     
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