Posting a message to the forum will remove the above advertisement

Discuss Shower isolator in the Electrical Forum area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

Please make sure you checkout our forum sponsors, many do discounts for members and, they keep the forum free to use.
  1. yellowvanman
    Offline

    yellowvanman Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Dorset
    EICR observation - Electric shower does not have an isolator (pull cord or switch). Circuit can be isolated and locked off in the consumer unit which is in the nearby airing cupboard. (This is 1st floor flat).

    Is there a reg that says a shower should have a local isolator?
     
  2. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Ain't you got a reg's book dude, or is it in Zwahili?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Hellmooth
    Offline

    Hellmooth Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Livingston
    Business Name:
    CM Electrical
    I wouldn't bat an eyelid at it.
     
  4. yellowvanman
    Offline

    yellowvanman Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Dorset
    Yes I've got one and use it quite often but just wanted to make sure I haven't missed something that would be relevant, because whilst its an observation I won't categorise it as a C2 or C3 because I'm not aware of a reg that is contravened, or do you know of one?
     
  5. 7029 dave
    Offline

    7029 dave Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    bedfordshire
    I am old school, and I like to see DP isolation on fixed appliances.However no reg to say you need to have it. Wrong in my book.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. yellowvanman
    Offline

    yellowvanman Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Dorset
    here here
     
  7. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    How could it be a C2?
     
  8. yellowvanman
    Offline

    yellowvanman Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Dorset
    Did I say it was a C2? Read more carefully!
     
  9. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Well, you don't seem to know how to deal with it? You mentioned fault codes, not I. EICR's are usually done by folks who have the relevant experience, which is the key here.
    For what it is worth, the regulations do require it to be isolated, but this can be achieved by using the MCB in the CU, so as far as the regulations are concerned, that is sufficient. In reality, it is good practice to provide a local isolator so that the shower can be turned off in circumstances such as it malfunctioning and not responding to local controls, or bursting into flames or suchlike, or needing to be fault found on or replaced, although in such a scenario I would personally lock it off at the CU. Pretty much the same as washing machines or the like.
    If I was doing the EICR, I would probably C3 it, personally, but this will be open to debate. At the end of the day, it is down to the experience of the guy at the coal face.
     
  10. yellowvanman
    Offline

    yellowvanman Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Dorset
    You're now questioning my experience and you don't even know me!

    As I've mentioned before I like to see an local isolator for a shower but there isn't a reg to say it does not comply. But I will mention it in my EICR but won't categorise it.

    So if you put it down as a C3 how are you going to justify that when you have already confirmed that it doesn't contravene a reg?
     
  11. hotfingers
    Offline

    hotfingers Regular EF Member

    Location:
    warrington
    Bs 537.1.3 does state that in a single phase domestic property used by ordinary persons the isolation should be double pole as to break both live conductors,hope that helps
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    No I'm not mate! EICR's are a very responsible undertaking... If you feel you have what it takes then I'm sure you do. I think you are right. The reg's can't cater perfectly for every scenario, a local isolator is obviously good practice. Why can't you C3 it? At the end of the day it is down to you, or me, or anyone else to interpret them as we see fit. You are right, if that was what your were asking, I might have misunderstood the OP. But for what it is worth, I would C3 it, it's just a recommendation, the customer doesn't have to do anything, and probably won't. what I meant was, most showers have a local isolator, for good reasons, and if one didn't I would reccommend it did.
    Anyway sorry if I came across a bit wrong, maybe we both need a cold one......
     
  13. 7029 dave
    Offline

    7029 dave Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    bedfordshire
    Yes and this can be achieved by throwing the main switch in the CU.
     
  14. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    But you wouldn't would you? Most people, even those not remotely electrically aware, would, in the event of the shower throwing a wobbler, look to isolate it locally? Like most of them are?
     
  15. westward10
    Offline

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    I would C3 it for the above reasons and maintenance by non electrical persons.
     
  16. 7029 dave
    Offline

    7029 dave Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    bedfordshire
    Read my post 5, all in flavor of local isolation , my post 13 was just stating a fact.
     
  17. Andy78
    Offline

    Andy78 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    I would like to C3 such a thing but could not as there is no specific reg being breached that I could think of.
     
  18. westward10
    Offline

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Agreed unless the manufacturers instructions suggested so.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    But you could let common sense override it? After all they are not Statutory, surely you are at liberty to use your experience to make recommendations? The way I see it, you are not going to get into any trouble are you? A C3 is part of a satisfactory report. I suppose you could always attach a separate written note? In such circumstances I would feel obligated to draw it to the customers attention.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. bigspark17
    Offline

    bigspark17 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    wales
    Isnt there a reg that states instantaneous water heater, immersions ect had to have 2 pole isolation or was that just for TT.? If no1 would install it this way then there should be a reg no against it or whats stopping people wiring to showers , cookers, imersion heaters, ground source pumps, ect ..straight from cu.?
     
  21. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Yup, nice one.
     
  22. westward10
    Offline

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Most sparks reading a Report with it as a C3 would think nothing of it.
     
  23. Andy78
    Offline

    Andy78 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    A note with no code would be the furthest i would go.

    I use the logic that the EICR is a technical report as to the safety of an installation based on BS7671. If it is compliant with BS7671 in all ways it cannot warrant a code.
    If I put a code based on my opinion against something that is compliant with BS7671 , the report ceases to be based on BS7671 and becomes open to abuse.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  24. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Good point. Personally, I have not come across this scenario. As you say, there is no actual contravention. Also, as Westie says, no other Spark reading it is going to get in a stew. At the end of the day the report will be Satisfactory so the Landlords and agents won't look any further. Maybe a written recommendation, attached to the report would be the best way to do it as you say.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Pat H
    Offline

    Pat H Don't ask, get an Electrician in.

    Location:
    Ware Herts
    Business Name:
    Sparks of Intelligence
    As others have said if its BS7671 compliant then you can't issue a code, even a C3.
    I'd probably verbally suggest an isolator and email that as well as a recommendation but not include it in the EICR
     
  26. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    As the inspector you can offer your opinion of the installation, and in this box I would include such a comment
     
    • Like Like x 3
  27. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Nice to see the OP coming back with some comments or constructive thoughts......
     
  28. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    At the time of posting this he was viewing this very thread 6 minutes ago.... maybe he's composing an update!
     
  29. yellowvanman
    Offline

    yellowvanman Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Dorset
    Not sure what you guys want me to add. I've said what I will probably do in post #10. Didn't quite manage to complete all tests yesterday so have to return one day next week, which gives me time to ponder some more!

    Will probably include it in the observations but without a code. That way I've mentioned it but it won't affect the satisfactory/unstaisfactory conclusion.

    Could extent this discussion further by the fact that the installation only has RCD protection on 1 circuit - on the shower which appears to have been added after the refurb was completed about 20 years ago. Flat is on the first floor. Discuss!
     
  30. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Oh hold on
     
  31. 7029 dave
    Offline

    7029 dave Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    bedfordshire
    Yellow, you are the guy on the job, if you feel to put a code 3 in, that is absolutely fine, it is only a recommendation, still satisfactory on the report. That would be my take only because that is my opinion, because I like local isolation.It will be up to the client at the end of the day.
     
  32. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Why do we need to discuss it? Your doing the EICR? You challenged me that I was doubting your professional ability.
     
  33. yellowvanman
    Offline

    yellowvanman Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Dorset
    I just thought I'd let you guys mull that over! I'm sure there will be different opionions out there!

    Ok, I'll start with my take. Plenty of C3's, lack of RCD protection on bathroom circuits (light + heater), no RCD protection for concealed cables, no RCD protection on sockets. The only possible C2 could be lack of supplementary bonding between shower/heater/lights in bathroom, but since the consumer unit is in the adjacent airing cupboard I suspect resistance between circuit earths will be OK, but will check!
     
  34. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    You mean, you want the forum in general to instruct you as to how to do your job? You are undertaking an EICR, it's a tricky old number requiring quite a lot of things, experience, qualifications and so on. Have you got any?
     
  35. yellowvanman
    Offline

    yellowvanman Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Dorset
    I don't want the forum to instruct me in anything I've just told you want I'm going to do, but I know others will disagree and thats their perogative.

    As for experience and qualifications I probably have more than you!

    I'm now leaving this thread with no further input!
     
  36. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    C2 for the lack of RCD protection on the sockets for me.........
     
  37. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Oh dear well that's an awful shame. It just seemed to me that every time you get a bit of a problem you come on here and ask how others would tackle it, not the sort of form for one which such an impressive pedigree? Maybe it's just me....
     
  38. 7029 dave
    Offline

    7029 dave Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    bedfordshire
    I don't think there is any need Sparks to rip into the guy, we all here to share our experiences and OPINIONS. Listen to uncle Dave.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  39. GMES
    Offline

    GMES Chief Gorilla Staff Member Trusted Advisor

    @yellowvanman@yellowvanman and @sparksburnout@sparksburnout , not sure what the beef is with you guy's if there even is one but lets keep it professional and out of the thread.
    Cheers.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  40. telectrix
    Online

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    as for me, i've had enough of bloody showers. rain all week, getting soaked just getting gear off van, bugger it. time for beer.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  41. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Yes good point Uncle. Soz
     
    • Like Like x 2
  42. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Showers in Cheshire??
     
  43. Sparkie30
    Offline

    Sparkie30 Regular EF Member

    Location:
    London
    @sparksburnout@sparksburnout

    With your comments you remind me of dilb. Glad hes not about.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  44. telectrix
    Online

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    snow showers in cheshire atm. pink floyd on the stereo, old peciliuer in the glass, dogs swarming over me. me happy .
     
    • Like Like x 1
  45. sparksburnout
    Offline

    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Dilb was a good lad, an experienced sparks who's presence would enhance this Forum. Maybe YVM will update his profile so we can all be aware of his undoubted credentials? I wonder why Dilb is not on here any more??
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...
Similar Threads - Shower isolator Forum Date
Domestic Shower pump power work/alterations DIY Electrical Forum Sep 11, 2017
Locations containg a bath or shower - Additional protection Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations Sep 9, 2017

Share This Page

Users found this page by searching for:

  1. shower isolator

    ,
  2. how do i know whether a shower pump has an isolator?

  • Electricians Directory Post a Domestic Job Post a Commercial Job