shower to notify or not

[mrmatt]

A friend of a friend split up with her partner and he took the shower with him when he moved out leaving wires hanging out the wall. The local council were called and the circuit was disconnected from the consumer unit as a safety precaution. A plumber has put in a new shower and she has asked me to connect it back up at both ends and test.

Providing the calculations work out ok she wants to use the cable alreadt there as she dont really want the floors up. is this a notifiable job or would you class it as a like for like?

 

[bugsy]

your replacing like for like but its in a notifiable location = notify

 

[mydigitalhome]

notify every time, why cut corners - Paperwork and cover yourself

 

[mickytuff]

i thort the replacement of an accessory was not notifiable, ...................???

 

[DaveyD]

your replacing like for like but its in a notifiable location = notify

Hi, Are you sure? "Like for like wherever you like" I thought.
Just checked Guide to BR pg 21 and 22 (b) Non notifiable like for like even if special location.
Regards
David

 

[DaveyD]

A friend of a friend split up with her partner and he took the shower with him when he moved out leaving wires hanging out the wall.

... and WOW MrMatt, that beats splitting up the CD's !

 

[nickblake]

The circuit has been disconnected ,its in a special location and would be classed as a minor works which is notifiable , you need to provide a certificate and test in accordance to BS7671 2008 , the reason for this is you fit it and walk away , yes it may work but how do you know the cpc is connected and the circuit is safe

 

[DaveyD]

The circuit has been disconnected

Good job you read the full post, sorry missed that bit !

 

[mickytuff]

so would it be non notifiable if the shower had been connected already then?????

 

[DaveyD]

so would it be non notifiable if the shower had been connected already then?????

Minor works cert.

 

[mickytuff]

minor works cert, with notification to LABC or not DaveyD??

 

[jaresquire]

Just to stick my oar in, I would say not notifiable, you could even replace the cable for the same size

Edit Still need MW cert!

 

[DaveyD]

minor works cert, with notification to LABC or not DaveyD??

Hi MT. So if the shower is just to be replaced like for like - The little green book says not notifiable pg 22 (b). Minor works cert only. I cant see how else that can be read and its what I was taught - but happy to be corrected.

Nice Oar Jaresquire.

 

[nickblake]

so would it be non notifiable if the shower had been connected already then?????

The person who connected it would have to carry out the tests issue a minor works cert , issuing this would require notification due to the shower being in a special location

 

[jaresquire]

Nice Oar Jaresquire.

Yeah thanks, missed that you'd already posted and beat me to it!

 

[mickytuff]

im going to agree with you davey, im saying minor works but no need to notify. i wish there werent so many if's and but's with this part p malarky, does cause a lot of confusion at times.!!

 

[DaveyD]

Yeah thanks, missed that you'd already posted and beat me to it!

I diddnt notice that, just liked your expression. I was only kidding mate...

 

[nickblake]

im going to agree with you davey, im saying minor works but no need to notify. i wish there werent so many if's and but's with this part p malarky, does cause a lot of confusion at times.!!

Sorry to keep correcting here chaps , if you issue a minor works in a special location its notifiable and as the circuit has been disconnected you have to test and issue a minor works

 

[mickytuff]

Part P clearly states that (page 13 section m), fitting/replacement of a cooker or shower is non notifiable. minor works yes, but you do not need to notify. So that is the correct answer, thort i'd check to be double sure folks!!

If showers disconnected or not, it would still require testing, to ensure safety.

 

[LukeD]

This explains why i think its all madness and not simple enough for the domestic market.

we should not have to think twice about this question. The whole thing is so complicated its mad !

 

[Amp David]

Because the shower was taken, probably in anger, i would definately notify

 

[Octopus]

Can I stick my oar in?

In this scenario, because the old shower had previously been removed and the circuit had been made safe a MWC must be issued, but not notifiable.

If the shower was still in place, broken and a direct replacement was being fitted it could be interpretted that any tom, dick or harry could make the change and no notification is required.

A registered electrician, in either case, would at the very least check the circuit and issue the home owner with a MWC, but not notify.

Don't we all love the ambiguity of Part P!

 

[solo2771]

maybe it is time for ALL electrical work to be made notifiable (sure niceic ect would love that lol)
the reason how many times do you go to a job where an old bugger (usually) has disconected a light switch or fitting and rewired it wrong before ringing?
I am only thinking of the public honest lol not the extra work.lol

 

[mickytuff]

I 100 percent agree with you, save all this fuss an nonesense whats notifiable and what isnt, notify all work done, no confusion then, think it mite put prices up, but hey- everything else is rising!!!

 

[SMB]

I haven't had a rise for ages..

 

[telectrix]

I haven't had a rise for ages..

i've not had a shower for ages/

 

[poirot]

You cant be sure its a like for like replacement because the oringinal shower is not there, you only have the househoulders word on the size, the existing cable should be the required size for the new shower and changed if it is not suitable, as you will be connecting a circuit to the fuseboard the mcb needs to be correct for the circuit and it will need testing & notifying, you cant say its like for like if you have never seen the existing shower. (unless you can locate the original shower?)

 

[telectrix]

if the cable is sufficient for the new shower, then rating wise, i would say it,s like for like. as you will be reconnecting a circuit, yes, test and MWC, but i would not consider it notifiable. that is only my personal opinion.

 

[poirot]

Connecting a circuit to a fuseboard is notifiable, don't forget it was the council who disconnected the circuit, i would advise notifiying.

Thinking about it connecting new circuits is notifiable, but without the existing shower it would be an alteration to an existing circuit in a special location, therefore notifiable.

 

[telectrix]

not connecting a new circuit, so, unless corrected, i stand.

 

[gpz900jim]

if the shower has been taken away, how do you know its a like for like?

 

[cagedanimal2010]

if the shower has been taken away, how do you know its a like for like?

really???

 

[mrmatt]

Thanks for the feedback so far guys, it still seems theres a lot of confusion out there. Ill be issuing a MWC and am going to notify just to cover my back.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

I have 2 opinions on this. If you are Part P registered then notify it. If you are not then reconnect the shower at both ends, assuming you are a qualified Electrician with the knowledge and test equipment to test and certify it then do it, issue a MWC, and state on it that it is a direct replacement for a failed unit. If you have to install a RCD because it doesn't have one then you are altering the circuit and means of protection, so it will need notifying whatever. I can't see you having a problem not notifying a like for like replacement if you back it up with the relevant BS certification.

Cheers.........Howard

 

[john25]

The rules that I know from being upto date with the regs is that you can replace a like for like in a Special location and NOT have to notify LABC. But as you don't know what the previous Shower rating was as long as the new shower doesn't require an upgrade of the protective device then all you are Basically doing is an Alteration of that circuit ( feel free to Correct me if im wrong by the way).

And to one of the above posters who said that all work should be notifiable *You can't actually be serious Electricians are getting ripped off left right and center as it is Making Sparkies notify every single bit of domestic work is only going to benefit NIC/ELECSA/Napit fat cats

a qualified competent Electrician should not have to *Notify* his/her own work Thats why we go to College and do Apprenticeships so we learn how to Install and repair and choose the Right equipment for each job in a safe and competent manner.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

a qualified competent Electrician should not have to *Notify* his/her own work Thats why we go to College and do Apprenticeships so we learn how to Install and repair and choose the Right equipment for each job in a safe and competent manner.[/QUOTE]

Well said John, and your opinion is shared with thousands of other Sparkies throughout the land. if only the nuggets who make the rules would listen.

Cheers.........Howard

 

[solo2771]

The rules that I know from being upto date with the regs is that you can replace a like for like in a Special location and NOT have to notify LABC. But as you don't know what the previous Shower rating was as long as the new shower doesn't require an upgrade of the protective device then all you are Basically doing is an Alteration of that circuit ( feel free to Correct me if im wrong by the way).

And to one of the above posters who said that all work should be notifiable *You can't actually be serious Electricians are getting ripped off left right and center as it is Making Sparkies notify every single bit of domestic work is only going to benefit NIC/ELECSA/Napit fat cats

a qualified competent Electrician should not have to *Notify* his/her own work Thats why we go to College and do Apprenticeships so we learn how to Install and repair and choose the Right equipment for each job in a safe and competent manner.

I totally agree BUT there are many unqualified cowboys out there who wouldn't even know what the big red book was, I think to most people electrics can look much less complicated than they are. Connecting a gas boiler to the gas looks easy but I wouldn't do it but my dad did 20 years ago with no qualification to do it, he also did some very dodgy wiring that thank god I sorted out a couple of years ago like a radial 120M extention to his garage to supply his power tools welders ect and lighting wired in 2.5 on 32amp . but anyway hope this makes sence lol
Paul

 

[solo2771]

a qualified competent Electrician should not have to *Notify* his/her own work Thats why we go to College and do Apprenticeships so we learn how to Install and repair and choose the Right equipment for each job in a safe and competent manner.

Well said John, and your opinion is shared with thousands of other Sparkies throughout the land. if only the nuggets who make the rules would listen.

Cheers.........Howard[/QUOTE]

SORRY QUOTED WRONG THREAD
I totally agree BUT there are many unqualified cowboys out there who wouldn't even know what the big red book was, I think to most people electrics can look much less complicated than they are. Connecting a gas boiler to the gas looks easy but I wouldn't do it but my dad did 20 years ago with no qualification to do it, he also did some very dodgy wiring that thank god I sorted out a couple of years ago like a radial 120M extention to his garage to supply his power tools welders ect and lighting wired in 2.5 on 32amp . but anyway hope this makes sence lol
Paul

 

[tonys]

a qualified competent Electrician should not have to *Notify* his/her own work Thats why we go to College and do Apprenticeships so we learn how to Install and repair and choose the Right equipment for each job in a safe and competent manner.

That's why building control rarely take court action, because if someone wins and sets a precedent it will blow an hole in revenue for the scheme FREELOADERS.

 

[nickblake]

a qualified competent Electrician should not have to *Notify* his/her own work Thats why we go to College and do Apprenticeships so we learn how to Install and repair and choose the Right equipment for each job in a safe and competent manner.

Well said John, and your opinion is shared with thousands of other Sparkies throughout the land. if only the nuggets who make the rules would listen.

Cheers.........Howard[/QUOTE]


Yep i agree to howard ,but when you see diy store selling every thing from fuses to CDU's every ones going to have a go all how often do we see it on site and on here too ,in principle Part P was a good idea but , if you are qualified and inspected as we are then why notify it just costs the country yet more mone for what ,in my eye the regs should become statutory and you should not be able to work on electricity no matter how bigger job unless your regestered as you do with gas ,at the end of the day how many people are killed and how many houses are burn down with house fire caused by electrical faults ,gas you can smell , electricity you cant or even see it unless its a lamp

 

[jase]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADP_2006.pdf

page 9 point m

 

[LukeD]

took thew shower !!!!!!!! Honestly, some people are born idiots !

 

[ricardo123]

This is classed as a distressed change, it is neither non-notifiable nor do you need to issue a minor works certificate. However, I would take some readings such as the Zs from the shower, write some details on a copy of a MWS and keep it for your own records. A minor works is only if you are modifying the circuit, i.e you do not have to issue one if you are replacing a broken socket, a broken light fitting, a damaged shower, etc.

There are some other points to note though, obviously you must make sure that the existing cable is sufficient to power the shower, if you have to replace the cable and thus modify the circuit then you will have to both notify and issue a MWS certificate and make sure the circuit complies with the 17th edition.

For further info see bottom of page 8 Approved Document Part P.