Discuss SP/DP RCBO's for domestic .Do you have a preference ? in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
True....the drop in price is amazing .Now available at a reasonable price DP all the way - cant see a reason not to.
I haven't done much domestic in years, is there now a readily available option for CUs that accept SPSN or DP devices?
My preference when I was doing more domestic was to use SPSN RCBO's when possible.
Fusebox brand. It’s very goodI haven't done much domestic in years, is there now a readily available option for CUs that accept SPSN or DP devices?
Only option in Europe is DP we will eventually catch up.
Ohh do I dare say and use radials only and no loop in lighting.
Now how did I know it was going to be you that questioned my post.
He is referring to the advantages of DP rcbo,s over single pole.What do you mean by catch up?
While it may not be a requirement ,it is always a benefit for final circuits to have DP isolation.What in our electrical systems requires DP protection?
Mainland Europe uses the same electrical systems as the UK.Mainland Europe requires DP protection due to the differences in our systems.
He is referring to the advantages of DP rcbo,s over single pole.
While it may not be a requirement ,it is always a benefit for final circuits to have DP isolation.
Mainland Europe uses the same electrical systems as the UK.
i agree there is no need for over current protection on the Neutral unless it’s a specialist installation.As I have said may times one here I support the use of SPSN residual current protection, but I see no reson for DP protection generally.
Iyou don't consider been able to isolate a neutral to earth fault on a final circuit a disadvantage ?DP rcbos don't have an advantage that is not also offered by SPSN RCBO's in the UK.
See the aboveWhat is the benefit of DP protection in a system which had a reliably earthed neutral?
Mainland Europe shares TNC-S and TT systems which are the two most widely used systems in the UKMainland Europe does not have the same electrical system as the UK.
We are all entitled to personal opinion.But I can assure you that if you carried out more work in the domestic sector you would find DP rcbo,s make your life and the customers life considerably more convenientI don't like this idea that 'DP is better than SP' without having a good supporting argument.
What are these "improvements" specifically?Years ago in the UK DP protection was the standard because it was necessary, but we improved our electrical systems so that it is no longer required.
SPSN rcbo,s generally contain more electronics than their DOP equivalent.
I suspect that DP (and double module) rcbo,s dissipate heat better.
The single advantage I see SPSN having is the need for less space.Otherwise I see only disadvantages
I suspect there's some confusion about RCBO terminology going on here.
I suspect some folk regard SPSN = single pole switched neutral.
I suspect some folk regard SPSN = single pole solid neutral.
I suspect some folk couldn't convincingly tell you the difference between single pole switched neutral, and double pole.
I suspect I'm in this category. If I had to hazard a guess, it would be that the RCD side of things doesn't care which is the line, and which is the neutral (as the device is measuring a difference between the two), but that overcurrent is determined by what flows through the line only. Whereas a double pole device could detect overcurrent in either line or neutral. But that's only a guess. Happy to be schooled, though
It's a simple choice really.With a single pole RCBO, the neutral is connected straight through, and will possibly cause upstream devices a headache in the event of a neutral to earth fault.
Surely you mean SP RCBOs?For the electrician ,SPSN rcbo,s complicate what would otherwise be a relatively simple fault finding procedure.
CorrectSurely you mean SP RCBOs?
You are correct.The issue only arises with SP rcbo,s where the neutral is unswitched.These are the only ones I personally have worked with to date.Thanks for the clarification.
I'm struggling to think of a circumstance where a fault (or combination of multiple faults) would be detected and cleared by a "true" double pole RCBO (one with overcurrent detection in N as well as L), where it wouldn't with a single pole switched neutral RCBO. Anyone?
Historically some of the EU had both live connections off a three-phase supply (220V delta, not the 400V L-L seen now) so basically you needed fault protection on both lines.Thanks for the clarification.
I'm struggling to think of a circumstance where a fault (or combination of multiple faults) would be detected and cleared by a "true" double pole RCBO (one with overcurrent detection in N as well as L), where it wouldn't with a single pole switched neutral RCBO. Anyone?
That aspect is perfectly true, but historically they have not has the "strong polarity" assumption of the UK where we had polarised plugs and often line-only switching & OCPD due to N being very much definitely N by design & test.Mainland Europe shares TNC-S and TT systems which are the two most widely used systems in the UK
And with the 230 - 0 - 230 volt supplies that are common in my area. I've fitted many DP MCBs over the years.In the UK the only likely situation is likes of 110V site transformers where again you have two line as 55V-0V-55V instead of line/neutral and a fault to earth needs over-current protection for both cases.
I'd assumed the former in my comments. The MEM catalogue saysI suspect some folk regard SPSN = single pole switched neutral.
I suspect some folk regard SPSN = single pole solid neutral.
Most electricians in France would connect the neutral on the left, but and its a big but, in domestic installations anyone is allowed to work on the electrics, Francois down the local wine bar is just as prevalent as Dave down the pub, domestic sockets are restricted to eight on 1.5mm protected by 16amp MCB and twelve on 2.5mm protected by 20amp MCB, RCD's are restricted to eight circuits and all white goods on their own circuits, so the boards are bigger than we encounter in the UK and so much easier to work on, Oh yes all are dual pole, dual module.@Mike Johnson or anyone else with knowledge of French electrics. Off topic, but is the polarity of sockets specified in France? Most of my encounters with French electrics are 16A sockets on camp sites, and, while most are wired neutral on the left when earth at the top, as in the UK, it's not at all unusual to encounter one with the live on the left.
Reply to SP/DP RCBO's for domestic .Do you have a preference ? in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
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