UK SWA Cable termination

[mjjm986]

Hi All,

Looking some advice. Had someone install a SWA cable to exterior outhouse. In the outhouse everything.looks.great, new consumer board and three double sockets all installed and looking good. My.concern is with how the SWA cable has been terminated at the main board in the house. Surely the SWA should have been terminated into a junction box or something similar, then a feed to the new RCBO's? Should I be concerned or leave as is?

 

[westward10]

That is appalling it should be glanded and those conductors enclosed. Also what appears to be a cream coloured cable is the inner part of the cable used to supply the rcd, that "bedding" should not be exposed like that.

 

[Rockingit]

As above, that's not acceptable at all! I'm now curious as to what you're considering the 'good' job in the outhouse, to the layman.

 

[brianmoooore]

Is the offending enclosure at the house end plastic?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Looks fine ?

 

[mjjm986]

That is appalling it should be glanded and those conductors enclosed. Also what appears to be a cream coloured cable is the inner part of the cable used to supply the rcd, that "bedding" should not be exposed like that.

That is appalling it should be glanded and those conductors enclosed. Also what appears to be a cream coloured cable is the inner part of the cable used to supply the rcd, that "bedding" should not be exposed like that.

Thanks, when you say bedding should not be exposed, can I as what you mean by that?

 

[mjjm986]

As above, that's not acceptable at all! I'm now curious as to what you're considering the 'good' job in the outhouse, to the layman.

Hey, in so far as i can tell it looks neat and tidy in the shed, no obvious signs of anything that sticks out, although I appreciate that I can't see what is underneath.

 

[westward10]

That cream coloured cable is the inner part of a swa cable with the outer black sheath and armour removed, it should not be exposed like that.

 

[mjjm986]

Is the offending enclosure at the house end plastic?

The rest of the board is metal, the new RCBO's are plastic. In the shed it is a metal consumer unit supplying three double sockets, one each for freezer dryer and one washing machine leaving a spare socket in each. With a 16 amp breaker for socket supplying freezer and a 32amp breaker for two double sockets supplying dryer and washing machine.

 

[goasis]

That was not installed by an even vaugly competent electrician. It's not some thing done by mistake, or a technique that some use and others don't. It's just straight up terrible. I would assume the rest of his work is also well.worth having checked over. Regardless of what it may look like on the surface. Whoever did this has no standards or conscience

Can't really tell where that swa is coming from, it looks like that brown conductor is a link between the 2 enclosures. I'd bet that cream swa is coming off the main switch in the board above, hence the mk 40a mcb

 

[mjjm986]

That was not installed by an even vaugly competent electrician. It's not some thing done by mistake, or a technique that some use and others don't. It's just straight up terrible. I would assume the rest of his work is also well.worth having checked over. Regardless of what it may look like on the surface. Whoever did this has no standards or conscience

Can't really tell where that swa 8s coming from, it looks like that brown conductor is a look between the 2 enclosures. I'd bet that cream swa is coming off the main switch in the board above, hence the mk 40a mcb

Yes, the cream cable is coming from the mains switch.

 

[goasis]

What does the consumer unit in the outhouse look like?

 

[Vortigern]

In any event SWA will always be properly glanded and terminated. Even on a plastic box. You can still put a banjo/frying pan on it and fly lead to the earth terminal at the earth bus-bar. Or you could use a pirahna nut. I have seen so many "variations" of SWA some quite inventive, but in all cases it should be properly glanded/booted etc. no sneaky black tape 'cos you forgot to put the boot on! I think the only case for not putting the fly lead on and even then the gland would go on albeit a plastic version, is when coming from TN to TT. Even then the outer armour would still need the fly lead at the point of origin in to protect the SWA against mechanical damage. As it stand there is no such protection in your picture. Hmmm my dog is licking its lips at the picture????

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

Any chance of some photos of the rest of the works?

 

[MJPD29]

Looks like absolutley shocking work. Any pictures of the rest of it?

 

[Rockingit]

My guess is that it‘s a 2 core cable ( else would normally be in Br, BL, Gry) and that 1) there’s no cpc been taken with it (although do I spy a 100mA RCD which could suggest a TT so there could be some horrendous rod mashup somewhere else), 2) that inner SWA section got cut off and used as an insulated and sheathed(?!) short link from the board to a separate breaker, and then another one wouldn’t fit in the same hole so stripped the sheath off, hence the exposed L & N.

Also - this was reportable work under Part P so you should have had a full set of paperwork with it (not Scotland) - I‘d be seriously tempted to complain and ask for an independent inspection from Certsure.

 

[nicebutdim]

Also - this was reportable work under Part P so you should have had a full set of paperwork with it (not Scotland) - I‘d be seriously tempted to complain and ask for an independent inspection from Certsure.

OP is located in NI.

 

[MJPD29]

My guess is that it‘s a 2 core cable ( else would normally be in Br, BL, Gry) and that 1) there’s no cpc been taken with it (although do I spy a 100mA RCD which could suggest a TT so there could be some horrendous rod mashup somewhere else), 2) that inner SWA section got cut off and used as an insulated and sheathed(?!) short link from the board to a separate breaker, and then another one wouldn’t fit in the same hole so stripped the sheath off, hence the exposed L & N.

Also - this was reportable work under Part P so you should have had a full set of paperwork with it (not Scotland) - I‘d be seriously tempted to complain and ask for an independent inspection from Certsure.

No part p rubbish here

 

[ipf]

Someone's into RCD units, too.
Earthing?
It needs a lot of looking into, that lot.
How much was the joker paid?

 

[Dustydazzler]

I charged my usual £90 per hour + vat

 

[ipf]

I charged my usual £90 per hour + vat

Thought you might. Cheap as chips, as usual.

 

[David Prosser]

My guess is that it‘s a 2 core cable ( else would normally be in Br, BL, Gry) and that 1) there’s no cpc been taken with it (although do I spy a 100mA RCD which could suggest a TT so there could be some horrendous rod mashup somewhere else), 2) that inner SWA section got cut off and used as an insulated and sheathed(?!) short link from the board to a separate breaker, and then another one wouldn’t fit in the same hole so stripped the sheath off, hence the exposed L & N.

Also - this was reportable work under Part P so you should have had a full set of paperwork with it (not Scotland) - I‘d be seriously tempted to complain and ask for an independent inspection from Certsure.

You can get single phase SWA core colours from most suppliers.

 

[mjjm986]

So, I took a few more pics.

This is the other end of the SWA cable coming into the consumer unit inside the shed.

It then runs off to feed the three double sockets. Idea is that another breaker is added in the next few weeks for a feed to garden pond and lights.

I need to chat to the electrician tomorrow. Any advice on what.i should ask him to do to put right? He is due to be paid however I'm not comfortable with this. For example in the main board in the house there are pieces of the steel from the steel wire cable sticking out through the white insulation tape, am I right in thinking, worst case scenario, they could become electrified and cause a risk of shock?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Looks like someone stole your main switch ....

 

[mjjm986]

Looks like someone stole your main switch ....

I did wonder why there was isolation in the house but not the shed, surely in an emergency a mains switch would be required in the shed.

 

[mjjm986]

You can get single phase SWA core colours from most suppliers.

I think someone else mentioned I was from Northern Ireland, forgot to add that to my post ?

 

[westward10]

That is appalling if we employed anyone who carried out work to that standard they would be sacked. If the armour is the earth then you have problems however there is an additional cpc. As above the main switch is missing, I am not sure this individual should be doing electrical work.

 

[Cagethethird]

Did you take the cover off for the photo or was it left like that?

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

So THATS how you make off an SWA.... I've been doing it wrong all these years ?

 

[mjjm986]

Did you take the cover off for the photo or was it left like that?

I isolates the lower and removed the cover to get a look.

 

[westward10]

I'm afraid what needs to happen is you find a competent electrician who can advise how to make it safe.

 

[mjjm986]

I'm afraid what needs to happen is you find a competent electrician who can advise how to make it safe.

Really? I was gonna give him the chance to put right, but I must admit I'm worries that I won't know what right and what's not.

 

[MJPD29]

Really? I was gonna give him the chance to put right, but I must admit I'm worries that I won't know what right and what's not.

I agree, give him a chance. He hasn't got a leg to stand on there is no excuse for that sort of work whatsoever

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I'm all for giving someone a second chance, but not in this case. They clearly take no pride in their work and this is your safety that is at stake. I would absolutely not want that person back in my house.

 

[littlespark]

Oooh… that’s a special type of wrong.

Missing mainswitch is just puzzling.
No glands on the SWA is rough.

You sure this was an electrician?

 

[MJPD29]

Oooh… that’s a special type of wrong.

Missing mainswitch is just puzzling.
No glands on the SWA is rough.

You sure this was an electrician?

It actually seems more difficult to connect that live in with the busbar than to use a main switch. Maybe he's trying to use up materials left over from job

 

[westward10]

Really? I was gonna give him the chance to put right, but I must admit I'm worries that I won't know what right and what's not.

It is fair enough to give someone a second chance we all make mistakes but they are not mistakes those are examples of someone who it totally incompetent and they know no better. I agree with @HappyHippyDad I would not let them touch it. Personally I would be looking at seeking legal advice on how to proceed.

 

[mjjm986]

Thanks everyone for your input so far, really appreciate it. Can I ask, if you were quoting for the same job what way should it have been done.

In the shed am I right in thinking the armoured should have been glanded with an earth taken from the gland to the consumer unit, rather than connect the armour wire? Then the three main cores connected as required with a mains switch.

Then in the house, the cable glanded, with an earth taken from the gland, where would it go from there?

I think we all agree the connections are not acceptable. Is it standard practice though for the feed to come from the main switch to the two new breakers that were added on the main board?

Just trying to get a clear picture in my head of what needs done to for the chap to fix it or if I need to get someone else to do it.

Is some one able to give me the main steps in completing an installation lime this? It would be very helpful.

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

Thanks everyone for your input so far, really appreciate it. Can I ask, if you were quoting for the same job what way should it have been done.

In the shed am I right in thinking the armoured should have been glanded with an earth taken from the gland to the consumer unit, rather than connect the armour wire? Then the three main cores connected as required with a mains switch.

Then in the house, the cable glanded, with an earth taken from the gland, where would it go from there?

I think we all agree the connections are not acceptable. Is it standard practice though for the feed to come from the main switch to the two new breakers that were added on the main board?

Just trying to get a clear picture in my head of what needs done to for the chap to fix it or if I need to get someone else to do it.

Is some one able to give me the main steps in completing an installation lime this? It would be very helpful.

Sounds like you have more of an idea than the cowboy had

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

Don't agree that the cowboy should be given a second chance. If they've done a shocking job like this, do you really think they'll be able to come along and fix all issues?

Looks like they've brought the feed in through the back of the DB in the shed as well making it impossible to gland off.

 

[mjjm986]

Don't agree that the cowboy should be given a second chance. If they've done a shocking job like this, do you really think they'll be able to come along and fix all issues?

Looks like they've brought the feed in through the back of the DB in the shed as well making it impossible to gland off.

That's a good point, there is no slack on the cable on either end, therefore like you say, no chance of adding a gland. Do you think am I looking at starting over from scratch with a new cable?

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

Wouldn't say so, you can probably utilise what you have in place.

Whats on the other side of the wall where the DB is? One way would be to take the feed back out, gland it into an adaptable box and then bring the cores through the hole made into the DB.

The supply end looks a bit busy, maybe another photo of the setup from slightly further away will help us see what's going on so we can advise what could potentially be done at that end too.

How long was the bloke at your house for? Do you have any photos of how the SWA is ran to get to the outhouse?

 

[mjjm986]

Wouldn't say so, you can probably utilise what you have in place.

Whats on the other side of the wall where the DB is? One way would be to take the feed back out, gland it into an adaptable box and then bring the cores through the hole made into the DB.

The supply end looks a bit busy, maybe another photo of the setup from slightly further away will help us see what's going on so we can advise what could potentially be done at that end too.

How long was the bloke at your house for? Do you have any photos of how the SWA is ran to get to the outhouse?

Nothing on other side of wall, cable Is clipped along the exterior wall of the house and goes directly through the wall to shed and main board in the house, see below pics.

Below are better pics of the main board in the house.

From wat I can see, the earth from the SWA goes to the mains switch, the live goes to the smaller of the two new breakers, with another live coming from the smaller breaker to the new main breaker for the shed. The neutral from the SWA goes directly to the main shed breaker. Then the cream cable connects the mains switch to the main shed breaker.

 

[Rockingit]

Deleted

 

[westward10]

Looking closer at the pics that is a three core cable. The pic at the board shows a cpc in the cable and the original pics shows a cpc into the switch fuse. Nevertheless it is a dire installation.

 

[ipf]

It's a joke. We can talk about pride in our work but when someone is so incompetent, pride doesn't come into it.
FFS, he's even fixing 20mm conduit with knock on clips.
He's done it off the cuff.

Demand an Electrical installation Certificate before you part with any money and see what they come up with.
No way would a time served electrician or, from members on this forum, a qualified Domestic Installer offer such a load of rubbish.

Gawd that is gaggin'.....

At least most to$$ers know what a gland is, even if they can't fit them correctly.

 

[westward10]

Let your electrician have their say on here.

 

[Lister1987]

Really? I was gonna give him the chance to put right, but I must admit I'm worries that I won't know what right and what's not.

If you have the chap's (or chapette's...botchery is an equal opportunities 'skill') then I would get trading standards involved and use the case precedent recently posted on here under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Regulation 2008.

 

[DPG]

Whatever you do, don't pay him.

 

[mjjm986]

Whatever you do, don't pay him.

Haven't paid anything yet but will need to contact him soon to see if he can put right.

I'm up to speed with what he needs to do on the shed side of things, however correct me if I am wrong.

Gland the end of the armoured cable into a box on exterior wall and the carry cable through from box to the board (cable is not long enough to gland on inside). Add an earth wire from SWA gland to consumer unit, add a mains switch and adapt wiring to suit.

Can anyone tell me, what should he be doing on the supply end at the house? Is he on the right track with the RCB and MCB getting fed from the mains switch?

I'm assuming he also needs an earth coming from a gland at supply end in addition to the earth from the SWA cable, do both earth's go to same place?

If someone may be kind enough to explain what should happen at the supply end, it will help me have the conversation with him and I can guage the response and decide what to do from here.

As always all advice is very much appreciated.

On a side note, I think I know the answer, but is it possible to run three double sockets from a Spur?

My understanding is that if spurred from a socket, max is one double socket. Multiple can only be added if they are fused or taken from a junction?