Swimming Pool Starter Help!

[dlt27]

Hi and thanks in advance.
I have been called to a job to look at a faulty starter for a swimming pool.
The starter apparently has never worked and swimming company has agreed to pay for it to be fixed ( there electrician has had 2 goes already).
The starter is supposed to be wired so that if there is a power cut the pump automatically restarts, also it is controlled by a 240v timer which also turns on 2 uv lights.
The starter at the moment never turns off by the timer and the reason for this I noticed straight away is that starter is a 415coil being controlled by a 240v timer.
The main trouble I've got is does anybody know if there is a starter with 240v coil and n/c contractor so after power cut it automatically restarts. Existing starter is Schneider LM35P714.Thanks again.

 

[dlt27]

Sorry starter is model LE1M35N714. Thanks

 

[Pete999]

Hi and thanks in advance.
I have been called to a job to look at a faulty starter for a swimming pool.
The starter apparently has never worked and swimming company has agreed to pay for it to be fixed ( there electrician has had 2 goes already).
The starter is supposed to be wired so that if there is a power cut the pump automatically restarts, also it is controlled by a 240v timer which also turns on 2 uv lights.
The starter at the moment never turns off by the timer and the reason for this I noticed straight away is that starter is a 415coil being controlled by a 240v timer.
The main trouble I've got is does anybody know if there is a starter with 240v coil and n/c contractor so after power cut it automatically restarts. Existing starter is Schneider LM35P714.Thanks again.

Nothing wrong with a 240v control circuit controlling a 415v starter coil, you could control the starter with whatever voltage you want.
The 240v timer could be switching some contacts which form part of the 415v coil circuit, check that you have volts at the coil when you are supposed to, or it could be fail safe whereby the 414v coil is de-energised when the timer is in operation, if that is the case check that the coil loose voltage at that point.

 

[marconi]

Before this thread gallops off , could you carefully and with a some more description set out the conditions for which the starter contacts are to be closed and opened? In the form:

The starter is to close/open if or when:

1. The timer demands 'close' or 'open';
2.....
3.....
4.....

 

[dlt27]

Sorry can you explain! How can 240v pull in a 415v coil on the contactor. I have experience with contactors, but not a great deal with motor starters. Also can you explain why pump is constantly running, appears to be N/C as timer isn't switching the starter, however didn't test across the contactor, [aern't starters n/o contactors] Thank you

 

[dlt27]

I have been told the timer controlls starter to pump and uv lights so if they are away on holiday and have power cut the pool doesn't go go green.
The timer controlls the uv lights however doesn't affect the starter, it is just running 24/7. I was presuming the contactor would be N/C and timer would open it so if there is a power cut the motor automatically restarts when power comes back on. I could rewire differently if anyone has any ideas. Thanks

 

[Pete999]

Sorry can you explain! How can 240v pull in a 415v coil on the contactor. I have experience with contactors, but not a great deal with motor starters. Also can you explain why pump is constantly running, appears to be N/C as timer isn't switching the starter, however didn't test across the contactor, [aern't starters n/o contactors] Thank you

The 240v control circuit, and the coil arrangement are, or could be two separate circuits, the coil is fed from 1 phase to whatever devices are in the system, and returns via the coil via another phase, the 240 v timer could be operating a set of contacts in one of these devices. You can even operate the coil from a DC source to eliminate chatter on the magnetic faces of the contactor, your choices are almost limitless, could be the timer is faulty, but check out the control circuit, are there any sump pumps, limit switches etc involved? before spending cash on something that is OK. Sounds like from post 5 that the 415v coil should loose it's voltage when the timer operates, when you ask why the motor is running constantly.

 

[Pete999]

Where are you based Mate

 

[Pete999]

Gradually coming back to me after some years, in the place I worked, the reason why the 415v coil was / was switched from another source was a safety issue. The powers that be sensibly imo didn't like the idea of a 415v control circuit, dodging about all over the shop, so in many cases we used a 240v, 12v, 24v or a DC source for the control circuit.
Imagine if you can the 3 phases to the starter and a supply from say L1 via a fuse, mcb wired through the overloads etc of the starter, then the coil back to the say L2 hence a 415 v coil would be needed.
Within that control circuit there could be other factors that are needed to switch the motor on and off examples sump pumps, limit switches etc, and in your case a timer, don't want to run 415 to these units for safety reasons so the designers have used 240v as a control source. Sorry for the ramble, it's difficult to explain in writing, I believe that this description can go a long way in explaining to someone, who may not have had very much experience of Motor control circuits, the limitless avenues you can take when wiring remote control stations using lower voltages, ( by remote I mean some distance from the actual machine) hope this helps, take some pain killers with you because some electricians, even experienced ones, just can't get their heads around this method, it just clicked with me when I first came across it many moons ago.

 

[westward10]

If they want it running 24/7 then there is no purpose of the time clock surely.

 

[dlt27]

.

 

[dlt27]

No at the moment it runs 24/7 and they don't want it to. They just want it all to automatically restart after power cut to stop pool going green. Thanks

 

[UNG]

Where are you based Mate

He doesn't seem to want to answer that one

 

[Pete999]

He doesn't seem to want to answer that one

Possibly at work UNG

 

[westward10]

No at the moment it runs 24/7 and they don't want it to. They just want it all to automatically restart after power cut to stop pool going green. Thanks

Sounds bizarre as the circulating pump should be running to keep the water clean and maybe off at night only.

 

[HandySparks]

Just to clarify, what's the supply to this pool equipment? Single or three phase?

 

[Pete999]

Just to clarify, what's the supply to this pool equipment? Single or three phase?

Just to clarify, what's the supply to this pool equipment? Single or three phase?

I would imagine it's 3 phase as his initial post mentioned the coil voltage as 415v that's not to say the pump is though.

 

[dlt27]

Sorry , just got in from work..
I live in Worcestershire for anybody who would like too know.
I installed all the supplies for pool last September ready for the pool guys (see 1st picture). I got called back last week to see if I could sort why circulating pump isn't turning off as pool electricians had had no success.
They have wired as in my crude diagram.
Also I have downloaded picture of there starter (3 phase in and out L from time clock to A2 and N from timeclock to 96 on overload).
What I believe they want to happen is for pump and uv lights to go of at night, however if there is a power cut they want it all to automatically restart. Thanks

 

[dlt27]

Pool plant room.

 

[dlt27]

Crude drawing