Tell us about your faults!

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Discuss Tell us about your faults! in the Australia area at ElectriciansForums.net

bawall said:
Had a call from a local cafe " our power keeps tripping and we have to keep resetting it but now the button is in but there is still no power" here is what I found
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Food warmer, hotplate, kettle, toaster, fryer, Large coffee machine and a fridge all fed of the one 30A circuit wonder how it lasted as long as it has now has a new board and split in to 3 new rings and all the old melted chock block joints removed
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Looks like a quote for a db and split up wiring circuits to balance load
 
Worst fault ever was when working for local authority many years ago when concentric and neutral earth cable was coming into use for local service drops. I was installing new street lighting control equipment into steel lighting columns. This included our own new swa underground cable which was fed from a feed Colum i.e. a one with a local network cable connected via tails and cut out to our swa cable.
First job make off the swa and install service cut out (Lucy Box) then install control equipment, transformer, photo cell etc. Did all this and put the fuse into the service cut out and what the sh** the light jump into life. Tested the cut-out with the trusty 15w bulb and bayonet holder (this was over 30) years ago and yow 240 smackers.
Went to feed Colum and by now you may have guest this. The LEB (NEEB) had directly connected our cable to theirs via their service cut out. I nice little card (You know the one that reads Sorry you we out when we called to read your meter) had a note from the cable jointing team that read. “I have connected our service to yours (Called solid connecting at the time) so that you will have one less cut out to install and it looks a lot neater” Could not believe I had ringed live cable which was potently directly connected to the local network substation, put on a earth Strap, striped down the cores, shortened them, connected them to our cut out made off and connected the cable to the next Colum, by the way may mate had just made of his cables.
I guess I have never really trusted electricity ever since my first and only shock and made it a point to never touch bare copper unless it had water running through it.
 
Safe working practice on the TPN mains.?? Live el practice 1.jpg
 
Re: Tell us about your faults !

Tester Steve said:
Got called to a job yesterday. House owner said that when he shuts the front door, the lights flicker!! Kid was in the front room watching the telly (on full blast!) and all the lights were on. Shut front door behind me and the lights flickered and the telly flashed!!!! Had a look at the meter and CU, tails hidden in 25 x 25 trunking. Took the front off the CU, both tails loose. Told him I was going to switch off the supply at the isolator, kid moaned about his telly going off!! Turned off the isolator............................ nothing happened!! Lights still on, telly still blairing out!! WTF?? The conversation went like this...

me: this meter doesn't supply your power?
him: No
me: where does your power come from?
him: next door
me: next f***ing door!!!???
him:yes, last year when he had his house done up the sparky connected me to his meter
me:does he know about this?
him:no!!

So... put the cover back on the CU and turned the 'isolator' back on and told him to get someone else in!!!!

Steve.
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That is illegal even if next door does know about it, is it not?

Thanks.
 
Re: Tell us about your faults !

ChristianG said:
RCCB tripping when the bathroom light (2d 16W Flourescent) was switched off. The Bathroom light was on the main switch side of a split load board, but on a RCBO.

Turned out that a capacitor was missing from between the line and neutral. Some sort of surge knocking out the RCCB. When we took out the capacitor, the light switching off tripped the RCBO.

Added the capacitor from new light fitting to the old light fitting and it stopped tripping.

We still exchanged the old fitting for the new one though.

Also got told today by a customer that her old electrician couldn't fill the gap between sockets in her kitchen because they needed to be vented WTF? lol

If someone could explain exactly why the RCCB was tripping, I'd be grateful........still learning:D
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Be putting extractor fans to vent sockets next.
 
Re: Tell us about your faults !

chcnorris29 said:
That is illegal even if next door does know about it, is it not?

Thanks.
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You did best to walk away in fact I would be inclined to report the property and that guy calls him a electrician a crook would be more suitable, even if was legal to wire in to next door you should still be able to isolate supply and have it protected on your property. IN No way do I agree with agree with illegal and theft procedures.
 
Check this one out sure it passes all the regs NOT.

A internal fridge compressor used outside without any adequate waterproof housing a homemade shelter is really going to stop side rain and snow, no way.
 

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Builders way of wiring safely after removing old consumer which by the way was functional.
 

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Asked to do a survey of an mcc panel as there were no drawings. found an old supply tapped up, checked if it was live, yes it was okay ,thats a problem isolated and made it safe but then found another cable connected straight onto busbar, no markings, traced it back to a main isolater i.e live cores on both sides of isolator, no lock or label, this was a 3phase supply to a main factory db. Engineer "is that a problem sure its been like that for years" that why he gets the big bucks( nash of teeth ). We fixed during a shutdown while he moaned about the cost
 
Found a ring main fault today. I was doing the testing after adding a socket on a spur. The signs of a problem started with open circuit on the ring neutral and then a N-E insulation resistance measurement that took just a little longer than usual to settle. But things had changed after deciding to double check appliance on the ring was isolated. I was sure I had ring continuity earlier. I finally found the fault in a switched fused spur to a washing machine. One of the ring neutrals connected into the load side of the switch, and the load neutral was where the leg of the ring should have been. It had been like that since the property was built in 1996. If the washing machine isolator switch was on then the ring sort of worked OK, but when it was off all was not well.

Two months ago in the same property I did a direct replacement of a DSSO on the same ring that had an overheated (charred) line (live) connection terminal. My first thought today was the was the overheating was caused by overload on the broken ring. But of course it could not be because the line ring was always OK. The only common factor between the loose terminal on the DSSO and the mis wired 13A Fused Spur was the installer in 1996.
 
Andrewr3 said:
Found a ring main fault today. I was doing the testing after adding a socket on a spur. The signs of a problem started with open circuit on the ring neutral and then a N-E insulation resistance measurement that took just a little longer than usual to settle. But things had changed after deciding to double check appliance on the ring was isolated. I was sure I had ring continuity earlier. I finally found the fault in a switched fused spur to a washing machine. One of the ring neutrals connected into the load side of the switch, and the load neutral was where the leg of the ring should have been. It had been like that since the property was built in 1996. If the washing machine isolator switch was on then the ring sort of worked OK, but when it was off all was not well.

Two months ago in the same property I did a direct replacement of a DSSO on the same ring that had an overheated (charred) line (live) connection terminal. My first thought today was the was the overheating was caused by overload on the broken ring. But of course it could not be because the line ring was always OK. The only common factor between the loose terminal on the DSSO and the mis wired 13A Fused Spur was the installer in 1996.
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Same property but next day, in the same kitchen on the same ring. Found a very wrong but elegantly wired pair of 13A switched fused spurs in a twin recessed steel back box. The ring protective conductor from left side of the ring was neatly terminated in the top left rear of the steel back box in a proper box terminal. Nothing else connected with it. The right side ring protective conductor was similarly terminated in the top right rear of the back box, again nothing else connected with it. The each of the load protective conductors were connected to the earth terminal on their respective spur front plates and nothing else with them! It looked very pretty, wish I had a camera there. One of the spurs was a floor level heater the other was the cooker hood fan.

To test protective conductor ring continuity was a hassle as well because in the CU the two ends of the ring protective conductor were twisted together and packed into one green/yellow sleeve. It was a long sleeve as well because the CU was a large one. So I had to untwist that lot and re sleeve as well. There was another ring protective conductor trussed up in the same way as well.

Further around the wall I found loose terminals connections on a "hob" double pole isolator switch. Also had a wire fall out of another Fused Spur when I took the cover off.

This totals to finding 4 wiring faults in the kitchen and one in the hall on a spur for a bathroom heater in the same property!

It is a flat in a block. I'll be speaking with the management agent tomorrow.
 
Andrewr3 said:
Same property but next day, in the same kitchen on the same ring. Found a very wrong but elegantly wired pair of 13A switched fused spurs in a twin recessed steel back box. The ring protective conductor from left side of the ring was neatly terminated in the top left rear of the steel back box in a proper box terminal. Nothing else connected with it. The right side ring protective conductor was similarly terminated in the top right rear of the back box, again nothing else connected with it. The each of the load protective conductors were connected to the earth terminal on their respective spur front plates and nothing else with them! It looked very pretty, wish I had a camera there. One of the spurs was a floor level heater the other was the cooker hood fan.

.
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Update on this what I perceived was a "fault". Concerning how I found the connections 1) using the steel backbox itself as part of the durable connection for the circuit protective conductor ring is not a fault, but it could well be considered bad practice. If the steel backbox between the two separate terminal connections on it provides an equivalent CSA to the 1.5mm copper conductor then all is OK. This surprised me, but I can accept that. 2) using the front plate screws to pick up the protective conductor to the load is also acceptable, but again not necessarily best practice in this circumstance. My conclusion is that what I considered to be a fault on these two spurs was in fact acceptable. But I would not do it myself that way.
 
2) using the front plate screws to pick up the protective conductor to the load is also acceptable
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Is it?? I'd beg to differ, at the very least a suitably sized flying lead should be connecting the back box to the accessory faceplate. Fine for the faceplate screws to earth the back, but not to earth the accessory faceplate.

Once the face plate has been removed from the back box, there is no CPC at the face plate!! Relying on fixing plate screws for the appliances sole means of a CPC is wrong in anyone's book, no matter what it say's or doesn't say in in BS7671, .....or any other publication come to that!!
 
Engineer54 said:
Is it?? I'd beg to differ, at the very least a suitably sized flying lead should be connecting the back box to the accessory faceplate. Fine for the faceplate screws to earth the back, but not to earth the accessory faceplate.

Once the face plate has been removed from the back box, there is no CPC at the face plate!! Relying on fixing plate screws for the appliances sole means of a CPC is wrong in anyone's book, no matter what it say's or doesn't say in in BS7671, .....or any other publication come to that!!
Click to expand...

I took advice on this from the NICEIC tech help line. The practice they would like to see would be not to rely on just the screws. I agree with you engineer54 and NICEIC best practice, hence why I fixed the "fault". Even where the protective conductor is steel conduit to steel end box I would still use a fly lead. But I can see the point that when the front plate is screwed down as it should, then adequate connectivity will/could be present. When the faceplate screws are loose the circuit will always (in theory) be isolated anyway. Of course I am well aware of situations where decorators choose to loosen the face plates to paint the walls and electricians may remove a face plate while testing/on near live parts on a double pole switch or a fused spur.
 
sajeel said:
Builders way of wiring safely after removing old consumer which by the way was functional.
Click to expand...

Had that on a recent job. I had installed a bank of two twin sockets temporarily while place was gutted...2.5mm radial on a 16A with a 30mA RCD.

Mains incomer got moved on a friday afternoon...so my temp dis/board no longer worked...builder worked weekend so connected my temporary radial straight into mains.

I went mental when I saw it monday morning and got laughed at for it.
 
Kate said:
Had that on a recent job. I had installed a bank of two twin sockets temporarily while place was gutted...2.5mm radial on a 16A with a 30mA RCD.

Mains incomer got moved on a friday afternoon...so my temp dis/board no longer worked...builder worked weekend so connected my temporary radial straight into mains.

I went mental when I saw it monday morning and got laughed at for it.
Click to expand...

Hi Kate

Builders cannot be sparks the way I see it :eek:
 
Andrewr3 said:
I took advice on this from the NICEIC tech help line. The practice they would like to see would be not to rely on just the screws. I agree with you engineer54 and NICEIC best practice, hence why I fixed the "fault". Even where the protective conductor is steel conduit to steel end box I would still use a fly lead. But I can see the point that when the front plate is screwed down as it should, then adequate connectivity will/could be present. When the faceplate screws are loose the circuit will always (in theory) be isolated anyway. Of course I am well aware of situations where decorators choose to loosen the face plates to paint the walls and electricians may remove a face plate while testing/on near live parts on a double pole switch or a fused spur.
Click to expand...

Since when does the NICEIC decide what is or isn't acceptable?? If they actually accept this method of connecting socket outlet's, FCU's and other power based wall accessories, yet another reason NOT to rely on these outfits for guidance!! Useing the face plate fixing screws as the sole means of earthing connected equipment and appliances, is not and should not, ever be acceptable!!
 
sajeel said:
Hi Kate

Builders cannot be sparks the way I see it :eek:
Click to expand...

Definitely not. They are of the mentality 'well the kettle works when I plug it in so it must be right'

Dont get me started on plumbers though!!!!! My (easiest way to describe) "father-in-law" is a plumber. I visit his house regular. They are doing up the house. He knows I would do free elecs for him yet decides to do it himself...its fooking awful!!!!

Cant even get the bathrooms right...how does he think he can do elecs??? Lights tapped off rings, no sleeving at all, JB's everywhere. Rewired kitchen himself few years ago and just tapped new ring legs to nearest cable he found by cutting and JBing..ended up a balloon configuration....i never did find the other leg it was live under floor. Had to rewire it all myself.

Sorry I got started hahahaha.

In his defence..the problems with bathrooms are tile and stud wall related. Tiling was awful and water got behind them.
 
I got called to a house to rectify a cooker circuit that had tripped and stopped working. Traced the fault all the way back to inside to cooker only to find an electrocuted mouse between live and earth.........nice!
 
Engineer54 said:
Since when does the NICEIC decide what is or isn't acceptable?? If they actually accept this method of connecting socket outlet's, FCU's and other power based wall accessories, yet another reason NOT to rely on these outfits for guidance!! Useing the face plate fixing screws as the sole means of earthing connected equipment and appliances, is not and should not, ever be acceptable!!
Click to expand...

spot on!
 
Kate said:
Definitely not. They are of the mentality 'well the kettle works when I plug it in so it must be right'

Dont get me started on plumbers though!!!!! My (easiest way to describe) "father-in-law" is a plumber. I visit his house regular. They are doing up the house. He knows I would do free elecs for him yet decides to do it himself...its fooking awful!!!!

Cant even get the bathrooms right...how does he think he can do elecs??? Lights tapped off rings, no sleeving at all, JB's everywhere. Rewired kitchen himself few years ago and just tapped new ring legs to nearest cable he found by cutting and JBing..ended up a balloon configuration....i never did find the other leg it was live under floor. Had to rewire it all myself.

Sorry I got started hahahaha.

In his defence..the problems with bathrooms are tile and stud wall related. Tiling was awful and water got behind them.
Click to expand...

I hear you Kate, builders and plumbers. Many times I have seen electrics done the way you mentioned. They just tap a feed it works so job done. :mad:
 
was at a farm this afternoon fixing the guys land rover.
now we all know that farms aren't renowned for their great electrics, but this is pretty bad.
tap was also leaking and spraying water all ways.
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Unbelievable, I was called out this morning to a home with reported no power at sockets. A this home I had previously found faults before that were caused by poor workmanship (see post #1517) by others before me. On the way I was wondering if it was something I had done. The problem reported was an RCD covering 9 circuits would not stay in, sometimes. The first problem I had was the neutrals and earths were not in the correct terminations in the CU busbars, and because it was a busy dual tariff board it took about an hour to sort that out and trace the problem to a circuit labeled "panel heaters". I completely isolated the circuit wiring and put the power back on to stop for a cup of tea. But no power still on the ring. After poking around with the voltage tester I found there was no connection across the neutral pole of the RCD. Closer inspection resulted in the neutral input wire falling out of the RCD, the screw had not ever been tightened! It was held firmly in place by the pressure of the cable coming through a tight bend on the approach. Then still problems because the CU was one of those push onto busbar Quickline models and the RCD had now pulled off the busbar at the top and it was a right fiddle to get it to fit securely. Finally got the cup of tea and then decided to trace the problem on the panel heater circuit. Switched off both panel heaters, still a fault. Pulled the covers off the panel heater SF spurs and to my surprise found the wiring live (with voltage tester). But I had wiring for the circuit at CU completely disconnected. Discovered the labels were incorrect on the CU (doh). A few minutes later I had worked out it was a neutral earth fault on a day rate Immersion water heater circuit, not panel heater circuit. Whoever refitted a 2nd bathroom with a new shower had inserted a new MCB in slot 2 and moved all the circuits along one without changing the labels, compounded by the fact the labels were incorrect at the time of the shift anyway. So me thinks no problem, the customer can use the off peak for water heating for now until sort the Immersion in slower time. But no, they had canceled the eco7 on the metered supply. I now have an immersion heater change job tomorrow morning :-( wish me luck with unscrewing it.
 
ier and a lump hammer. gentle taps till it moves. mmersion heater spann
 
bloody laptop scrambling text. wrist touches on board mouse pad and bollox to my typing.
 
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