Third party signatures

[highspark]

I've always been adamant not to sign anybody else's work off. However I have somebody not Part P registered harassing me. (he's a mate).

He's also a spark and has just been laid off and doing foreigners at will. However he's come unstuck with customers are asking him for the certs.

He's asked me to just do him a EICR. I'm happy to do a condition report. But it still won't be notified to BC. So what's the use in an EICR and what liability does that leave with me should the installation cause fire etc. obviously I can't rip floor boards up etc.

Should I even bother doing a condition report at all?

 

[stidge]

IMHO mate tell him he will have to take courses pay all the fees like you have to !!!

 

[highspark]

He's qualified. Used to have his own business but is using me as a cushion until he can afford to re register.

 

[Robert Turnbull]

No ECIR is ever going to unearth whats under floors and in walls. Just note the obvious in the limitations.

 

[monkeyelectric]

I got asked today if i was "part p" and if i could sign off an extension that had been built and wired by someone else so i asked why they didn't sign it off? The answer was because he doesn't want to pay the expensive fee's and that any spark could give a certificate on it for a few quid!! So my reply was of course i can for £500, i didn't get the job but i wouldn't really want to sign off some oik's work that can't be bothered to do things properly to start with!

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

I only do EICR's for unregistered guys and I was told to do so by my LABC!, there are aware and happy that such contractors are wiring domestically and are more than happy to accept an EICR from a registered and 2391'd spark who can use his judgment to say satisfactory or not, obviously the certs are quite full of the word LIM !!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

as has been said....tell this turnip to go and pay the fees...then he can sign it himself.....cant he!!

 

[oldtimer]

If your mate cannot be ar$ed to sign off his work then why should he be to do his job right ? in other words learn to say no and if he says well we aint mates anymore then reply by saying well if I have to be you mate to wipe your ar$e then why should I or you bother

 

[BrianDB9]

why doesn't your mate give you the work and he can work under your supervision ,win win

 

[GLENNSPARK]

If your mate cannot be ar$ed to sign off his work then why should he be to do his job right ? in other words learn to say no and if he says well we aint mates anymore then reply by saying well if I have to be you mate to wipe your ar$e then why should I or you bother

like `friends`...but only in his terms....lol...

 

[markythesparky]

I only do EICR's for unregistered guys and I was told to do so by my LABC!, there are aware and happy that such contractors are wiring domestically and are more than happy to accept an EICR from a registered and 2391'd spark who can use his judgment to say satisfactory or not, obviously the certs are quite full of the word LIM !!

You gotta be mad.

Do you check the work at various stages? If not how do you know what is behind plaster, floors etc?

If someone gets killed or the property goes up in flames it'll be you in court mate not the bloke who wired it. His signature isn't on anything.

It's people like you who help to keep our prices lower than they should be. If you didn't do it then people would have to pay the proper rate for a registered and qualified sparks.

Wake up and smell the coffee. You better do it soon because none of us will be able to afford coffee if you and your like keep doing that!

 

[highspark]

I'm not sure how it goes with a EICR though. I'm only signing off inspection and testing. Not Design or construction. It's not being notified to the building control through me. All I'm saying is: it tested ok. From what I can see its been designed and constructed properly. However LIM. I can't see under plaster, floorboards etc.

I don't understand how the LABC will accept a condition report when it needs to be an installation report. Someone needs to put their name to the design and construction. With a EICR I'm not doing that

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Mark no mate not mad at all, it's just an EICR like any other I put my signature on, just that it's brand new as oppose to existing, I'm not issuing building regs compliance or signing off the work as mine, just reporting weather it's satisfactory or not, just like any other

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Oh just read your last sentence
Never accuse me if that sunshine, do actually understand what an EICR is??

 

[oldtimer]

They will accept an EICR because thats how it works they know its not being installed by a competent person and will never get a EIC so they ask for an EICR because at least its getting checked why because Part P is a mess but they will not admit it just think all the schemies going out of business mmmmmm

 

[highspark]

So the council will accept an EICR even though nobody has indicated whether it is designed or constructed properly. Wat the jells the point of an EIC then. It's all messed up.

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Totally and utterly agree , I don't do lots of them, done it maybe 5 times in 3 years. All I'm doing is my job, in asked by a client who has been asked by the LABC to report on an existing installation, 3 months old or 30 years the certs don't discriminate

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Old timer has it.....nail on the head, I couldn't believe how laid back our LABC is about it

 

[highspark]

Totally and utterly agree , I don't do lots of them, done it maybe 5 times in 3 years. All I'm doing is my job, in asked by a client who has been asked by the LABC to report on an existing installation, 3 months old or 30 years the certs don't discriminate

Do the LABC actually know the difference between an EIC and EICR then?

I'm happy to do an EICR on any install. Because all I'm doing is reporting on its condition through my meter results and what I can see. The condition report doesn't indicate what lies under plaster, in voids, under floorboards.

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

^^^^ as above, that's all I do, when it comes to cable routes & zones ect it has to be LIM and agreed with the client

 

[oldtimer]

LABC have to work with the system they know that Joe public or eastern european Joe can walk into a DIY shed and buy a twin RCD CU to replace an old 3036 board so right away its a 100 times safer than what was in . But at the same time the schemies are saying Part P works and its good because its their meal ticket but LABC know different they have to deal with real life so they ask for an EICR and they don't care they just want a signature

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Funny how the prats in the commons never ask the opinion of the people who could really sort this crap out....US

 

[Octopus]

Funny how the prats in the commons never ask the opinion of the people who could really sort this crap out....US

That applies to the whole lot of them. None of them can relate to the working people.

 

[guinnessgixer]

I agree with all of the above but.........a mate of mine is a solicitor he says part P is all just ****e, he says my first question when doing the convayancing on a house is......have you had any electrical work done since 2005? majority say something like, yes fred bloggs put an outside light in for us and a couple of extra sockets in for the tv and video. o great have you got a certificate for the work?? no he's just a handyman who lives down the street who did it for 50 quid, ok we'll have to get an indemnity insurance policy out on this work, it'll cost you about a hundred quid, it then guarantees the work against the house burning down etc, He says no checks are done on anything its just a complete paper trail!............ so A. handyman gets into no trouble and no doubt does bad work for another punter, and B. even with an indemnity policy it still only cost em what we would charge??!!he says if he gets any certification of any sort no questions of any sort are raised, as what the hell do any of our readings mean to a lawyer?????

 

[Sparkytlec]

I was told at my last NICEIC visit that when part P is updated in the coming months that third party sign offs may be accepted on an EICR any way. But it's not in in law yet.

 

[oldtimer]

I was told at my last NICEIC visit that when part P is updated in the coming months that third party sign offs may be accepted on an EICR any way. But it's not in in law yet.

Yea this is code for oops we screwed up so lets retreat and say you will need it signed off by a registered spark and that means we still get our subs every year but once this kicks in then every handyman and his dog will be doing £50 cash jobs and when the owner needs to sell and I say sell they will get someone in to EICR the property and that could mean 6 £50 cash jobs across 10 years.

I could be wrong here but there could be a bloodbath with regards to guys who have worked hard are registered and played by the rules and the only time this will be reviewed again is if a public figure or a lot of Joe Publics get killed

 

[londonlec]

Why cant your mate just fill in and sign one of your certs, then you just counter sign it as the QS?

 

[Octopus]

Why cant your mate just fill in and sign one of your certs, then you just counter sign it as the QS?

Because under the current rules that's not self certification.

 

[highspark]

Why cant your mate just fill in and sign one of your certs, then you just counter sign it as the QS?

Because as the QS you need to have supervised the whole installation and therefore if anything goes wrong you fall liable as the "Qualified Supervisor".

Why should I become liable for any job I haven't, designed,constructed or supervised and most importantly haven't made any money from. I pay my feed for a reason. So I can sign off my own work.

 

[monkeyelectric]

Because as the QS you need to have supervised the whole installation and therefore if anything goes wrong you fall liable as the "Qualified Supervisor".

Why should I become liable for any job I haven't, designed,constructed or supervised and most importantly haven't made any money from. I pay my feed for a reason. So I can sign off my own work.

I pay for my feed too but whats that got to do with signing work off

 

[highspark]

I pay for my feed too but whats that got to do with signing work off

Fees******* I say *****fees

 

[monkeyelectric]

Fees******* I say *****fees

I know, i couldn't help myself