Too late for building control?

[robsparx]

I may be in a slightly sticky situation. Before i start, i dont reccomend doing what I've done, as i understand it you should ALWAYS notify building control BEFORE you start a job if youre not registered to self certify


I had a rewire thrust upon me a few weeks ago when i was unemployed, so obviously i bit the guys hand off, and got to work straight away. I did'nt really think straight away about how i was going to Part P it.

I have nearly finished it now, and have arranged an ELECSA assessment for early june. But i have since found out that the house is being sold, and the deal is done and they have set the completion date for 2 days after my Part P assessment. So i am understandably more nervous about passing the assessment, and i'm not sure that even if i pass that the client will get the relevant documents in time?

Would it be too late to call out building control and get the to sign it off? The re wire is nearly finished, but its a totally empty house, so i can lift up floorboards etc showing my cable runs, and you can see exactly where i have run cables in the walls.

This is my own fault, i should have got building control involved straight away, even if the client didnt like the sound of the price

 

[Mac]

Can't you just say to the person that is selling the house that you have an inspector assessing your work and that you will forward the relevant paperwork as soon as.I know they have all these HIP packs now but it will be in his interest at the end of the day or call out the building inspector and bill the customer

 

[robsparx]

yes i was thinking that, but from what the builder was saying, the deal wouldnt be going through without the part p paperwork. he could have been exaggerating a bit i suppose. i just thought that, if i failed my assessment for whatever reason, then it could delay me part p'ing it by quite a while.

basically i don't wanna be held responsible for delaying the sale of the house going through, and possible getting in the **** because of it

 

[sparks1234]

Now I may be wrong or I maybe right but somebody told me that Napit allow their members to certify works carried out by others, i didn't think this was allowed, anybody got any thoughts on it?

 

[robsparx]

Now I may be wrong or I maybe right but somebody told me that Napit allow their members to certify works carried out by others, i didn't think this was allowed, anybody got any thoughts on it?

so if youre right i could just search for a napit member in the area? sounds like a good shout if this is the case

 

[sparks1234]

Its only something I heard, its worth a phone call but dont hope too much, your best port of call I would think would be your wholesalers as they will know lots of sparks

Good luck

 

[robsparx]

ok cheers sparks, i'll make a few calls tommorow.

does anyone know if it would be too late to get building control in?

and how long it takes once completing my ELECSA assessment until i can get the part p document to the customer

 

[WILLRUK]

Robsparx,

a couple of observations.

Firstly don't panic.

If the house sale has exchanged then no one is going to pull out - least of all the buyer, unless they're happy to stump up the cost of the seller's fees etc as well as losing the money spent on their own legals.


You know you're approach was flawed but it about putting things right now and at the risk of teaching you to suck eggs, bad news just gets even worse the longer you take to tell it. So best to inform the builder asap.

If you give the builder a clear explanation of what you are doing and what will happen then even if he doesn't like the timescales he can at least pass on the info and he'll probably go with it - albeit under duress. Basically he doesn't really have much choice.

If the buyer insists on getting the Part P cert before completion then their solicitor will probably advise to delay the date of completion until it is received.(Que PO'd builder) The EIC might swing it for you (POST assessment) with an understanding that the Part P cert will follow.

It might also help if you set a level of expectation with the builder as to when he'll receive the Part P cert, personally I quote "usually around 10 days".

after passing the assessment it will take ELECSA a couple days minimum to set you up with the facility to register jobs online through their website. Also ELECSA only send off submitted jobs to BC once a week every Tuesday evening. Certificates usually take a few days to arrive after that. However, you can print off a basic document that proves the job is pending submission to the local Building Control which might temporarily satify the solicitor.

Failing that, as an alternative, get a registered sparks to do a PIR on the property - not a perfect solution as you might cop for the cost if there are any remedials - but it would get the house sale problem out of the way. At the same time find another job for the assessment - like changing the CU at your own home.

Hope this helps.

Best of luck

Will.

 

[robsparx]

cheers will, first things first i guess i could be worrying a bit too much.

the owner of the house and the builder are both aware of my situation, i've explained this to him that my assessment is only a couple of days before the sale completion date, but i now think he may have the idea that as soon as i pass the assessment, that i can sign off a part p cert straight away and thats it.

and the builders a decent bloke, not gonna go mad about anything, he's my mates dad, so he'll just help to get things sorted rather than get in a huff about it

didnt really think about getting somebody to PIR it. this still wouldnt sign it off under part p though? thinking about it, i could actually be 2391 qualified by then, my final exam is on 4th june.

I have a job lined up this week for my assessment, combining 3 old CUs into one. gas and water less than 5 metres away from the CU, so all fairly straight foward. I'll wire a socket next to it for the 'small job' part. Regarding the assessment, as long as the work i've caried out conforms to the regs, and i can show that i know how to test it and fill in the relevant forms, is there much else to worry about?

 

[WILLRUK]

Apologies, my bad about the builder. If he's on side then the issue is a lot simpler.

You can sign off your work immediately following passing the ELECSA assessment - which includes the EIC for the house in question of course. It's just the admin time in getting the Part P cert in your hand that will take the time. Could you explain to the builder that no sparks can give out Part P certs as they have to come from ELECSA/ NIC/NAPIT etc and only after they've been sent to the local BC?

a PIR is a 'Work around' solution so would not get the Part P cert - but it might satify the buyer's solicitor. However I'd make sure the PIR testing was at least as thorough as the EIC testing.As soon as you're registered you could then issue the EIC and get the Part P cert.

Rgds,

Will

 

[andekoch]

you have 20 days to notify building control from the date you complete the work to comply (although some building controls will allow up to 45 days if they are in a good mood). Otherwise you can do a late submission.
If you have an electrical qualification (eg C&G2382 I think for the 17th) and speak to the building control officer he will generally be ok with the late submission. if no qualification building control will want to inspect themselves at a cost to you.

hope this helps

 

[robsparx]

well i'm fully qualified. c+g 2330, nvq3, am2, 17th, got my JIB gold card etc. so if i spoke to building control then they may not even have to come out and see the job?

well i'll ring them up tommorow anyway, explain my situation and go from there

cheers for all the advice guys

 

[LABCman]

I am intrigued by this thread - old I know but the content remains relevent. Nobody pointed out that a criminal offence was committed in the first instance. It is interesting as a building control surveyor to see that the general advice was around covering up the situation not addressing it. Advising the installer to wait until he is accepted by his competent persons scheme is no answer as the work was carried out before qualification i.e. outside the scope of any competent persons scheme. A false declaration would have to be made to certify the work making any CP certification invalid.

The best advice would be to approach the local authority building control ask for a 'Regularisation', pay your fee and have the work inspected and signed off. In my office that process would take about three days start to finish. If we caught someone falsifying inspection records we would prosecute and the courts are very unfiendly to electricians caught cheating.

 

[telectrix]

LABCman, please explain section 1.26 of the part p document. the part where it says that LABC will inspect the work at their expense

 

[LABCman]

LABCman, please explain section 1.26 of the part p document. the part where it says that LABC will inspect the work at their expense

The document you refer to is the Approved Document which is guidance and not the regulation - a bit like NICEIC Site Notes in relation to BS7671. That guidance was taken to apply to electrical works forming part of other works such as an extension or new build no additional fee for electrics in the same way as no extra fee for windows. However SI 2010 No 404 brought in new charging regulations for LA building control allowing much greater flexibility in setting fees. Consequently you will find now that nearly all LAs charge for inspection of electrical works. The idea in AD P was never reasonable in relation to stand alone electrical work anyway

 

[telectrix]

so, if an extension subject to planning is inspected as part of that planning control at no extra cost, why then ( on a job i know of ) did labc insist on test/inspection by a scheme member before signing the job off? ) and that is in addition to passing 300mm of fibreglass insulation packed around and over halogen downlights.

 

[LABCman]

Any electrical work by a competent person forming part of an extension in our area would not be subject to an additional charge however we will insist on inspecting the first fix and having a good look at the test results. Since October 2010 some local authorities may charge for that as we could do for DIYer doing electrical work (we don't actually charge for the DIY electrical work). Electrical work in relation to extensions and erection of new dwellings is not considered to be self certifying work as it is part of the whole and not just electrical work and since BC sign off the extension as a unit and not less certain elements it should be inspected by building control

 

[telectrix]

so, in that case i mentioned, why did labc not inspect the 1st fix when inspector was on site. also could have inspected after 2nd fix as all wiring was clipped and accessible. and why did they say that the planning charge would be more if a non-scheme member was doing the installation. ?

 

[RWJ]

Nobody pointed out that a criminal offence was committed in the first instance.

I think I read somewhere that it's a criminal offence for woman to wear trousers....... That seems about as enforced as Part P

Not that I have the "PART P" qualification (EAL DI Cert)...

 

[edrobbo8]

Advising the installer to wait until he is accepted by his competent persons scheme is no answer as the work was carried out before qualification i.e. outside the scope of any competent persons scheme.


The best advice would be to approach the local authority building control ask for a 'Regularisation', pay your fee and have the work inspected and signed off. In my office that process would take about three days start to finish. If we caught someone falsifying inspection records we would prosecute and the courts are very unfiendly to electricians caught cheating.

Well I had a similar situation on a rewire in March, phoned BC to notify them of starting work, and mentioned I was waiting for a date for my ELECSA assessment. They had no idea at all about inspecting the work after 1st fix, let alone getting someone in to test it if I failed my assessment. Some BCs are totally useless and seem to be a load of desk operators, with no experience in any part of construction, bring on the cuts!