Torque screw driver anyone bother ?

[Dustydazzler]

Ok tin hat on for a minute...

I have never ever bothered to acquire or use a torque rated screw driver

I have been offered a second hand wiha one by a mate for £20 as he is buggering off to Spain to work

Are they worth using ?

 

[Andy78]

For £20 it is definitely worth buying.
I don't use one myself but my mate uses the Wiha and it seems a very good tool. Think it has the largest torque range of any vde torque driver I have seen, the bits seem decent and are readily available.
Make sure the black handled setting tool comes with it.

If you don't get on with it I'll buy it from you

 

[Dustydazzler]

For £2o I might give it a whirl

at very worst it can live in the bottom of my tool box along with a few other bits I rarely use then one day will all end up on eBay

 

[Andy78]

For £2o I might give it a whirl

at very worst it can live in the bottom of my tool box along with a few other bits I rarely use then one day will all end up on eBay

Ooh no, don't let it fester amongst the forgotten tools. Like I say if you didn't use it much, I'd have first refusal please. Been thinking about getting one for a while now, but like with you, it may become an occasional tool so not wanted to pay full price.

 

[Charlie_]

For day to day house bashing they’re not really needed but useful for industrial switchgear when torque levels need adhering to

 

[MJPD29]

Bought an armeg one used it once not even sure why I bought it

 

[Dustydazzler]

Bought an armeg one used it once not even sure why I bought it

Arrggg

This is the issue

Having spoken to around 6 or 7 sparks over the years , they all the say the same thing.
Bought one and never ever use it

 

[sparkdog]

Probably good to be able to say you have one, if anyone asks.

 

[Ian1981]

Got mentioned at the Niceic assessment visit yesterday, he wasn’t too concerned as I don’t have one but basically said that the Niceic haven’t ‘pushed it yet’

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Wera do an attachment for their changeable blade screwdriver sets.
Have considered purchasing one, but £70 puts me off.

 

[GBDamo]

Ok tin hat on for a minute...

I have never ever bothered to acquire or use a torque rated screw driver

I have been offered a second hand wiha one by a mate for £20 as he is buggering off to Spain to work

Are they worth using ?

Mine is never more than 18" away from me for 60% of my working day.

It's buried behind my seat behind the racking, exactly where it will remain unless an assessor asks to see it.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Ahhh I see...Its one of those items

Like the 1000v yellow insulated gloves

Which I purchased after leaving college around 20+ years ago and have never actually used since

 

[MJPD29]

Arrggg

This is the issue

Having spoken to around 6 or 7 sparks over the years , they all the say the same thing.
Bought one and never ever use it

Mine literally gathers dust. I have an interchangeable wiha one which isn't torque but I use it all the time. Less than half the price but a great job

 

[Pete999]

For day to day house bashing they’re not really needed but useful for industrial switchgear when torque levels need adhering to

And do they not need adhering to in Domestic then??? Think that's where all the hoo hah started in the first place, Domestic Installs that is, poor equipment and poorly trained DIs.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Same here, it only gets an airing when the assessors around......prior to which I always apply a bit of dust so it looks used.

 

[Markyd]

Mine is in my testing kit bag......brand new...only comes out for assessment......

 

[Red Tony]

Might be good if you know what the right torque setting is for fixing bake light surface back boxes and junction boxes to a wall/joist.
As the amount of times I've just thought to myself just another quarter turn will do.....then crack!! Fcuk!!

 

[ruston]

Might be good if you know what the right torque setting is for fixing bake light surface back boxes and junction boxes to a wall/joist.
As the amount of items I've just thought to myself just another quarter turn will do.....then crack!! Fcuk!!

Most of the surface mounted single and some double boxes are crap too.

 

[45140]

And do they not need adhering to in Domestic then??? Think that's where all the hoo hah started in the first place, Domestic Installs that is, poor equipment and poorly trained DIs.

Surely contradicted by the apprentice-trained electricians here who say they never use them ?

I agree that there is no reference to torque settings in the DI course, but is that not also the case in Apprenticeships too ? After all the DI courses are all validated by Industry organisations.
And is it not a little pot calling the kettle black for people to slag off new scheme DIs when they don't torque themselves ?? At least the DIs have the excuse that this was not in the training course material, nor do I recollect in any of the Manuals I have read - for DI work that is. Industrial is different.

 

[Pete999]

Surely contradicted by the apprentice-trained electricians here who say they never use them ?

I agree that there is no reference to torque settings in the DI course, but is that not also the case in Apprenticeships too ? After all the DI courses are all validated by Industry organisations.
And is it not a little pot calling the kettle black for people to slag off new scheme DIs when they don't torque themselves ?? At least the DIs have the excuse that this was not in the training course material, nor do I recollect in any of the Manuals I have read - for DI work that is. Industrial is different.

Probably because the Apprenticed trained Electricians as you call them have been trained properly and, don't feel the need for overpriced unnecessary tools, as they have been trained properly during their Apprenticeships, on how to access the tightness of a termination, and not rely on the aid of a piece of useless orange and yellow abomination that is a torque screwdriver set, which will need calibration every so often brought about by CP Schemes, in cohorts with training establishments, who instruct DI trainees in the sterile environment of a training both, which as no resemblance to the real life of domestic electrical installations. Why may I ask is Industrial electrics any different, apart from the voltage in some cases? the electric will still kill, and maim innocent people, so please tell me the difference.

 

[Rpa07]

I’m not sure if I’d ever trust one anyway without putting a proper screwdriver in afterwards and giving it an extra 1/8th turn to make it ‘F’ tight, as it states in the MIs

 

[GBDamo]

Most of the surface mounted single and some double boxes are crap too.

I use trunking back boxes for all surface work, really cant be arsed with back boxes cracking.

 

[Charlie_]

I like pattresses, gives me the opportunity to get my magneto files out

 

[ruston]

I use trunking back boxes for all surface work, really cant be arsed with back boxes cracking.

So do I with a cone cutter when needs must .
I have given up on the cheap plastic rubbish.

 

[GBDamo]

So do I with a cone cutter when needs must .
I have given up on the cheap plastic rubbish.

Us Professionals call them a step drill don't you know.

 

[ruston]

Us Professionals call them a step drill don't you know.

Aye only mine isn't stepped , Well some of them are .

 

[stuarth]

If the manufactures instructions that come with a CU state a torque screwdriver set to 2.5n must be used then thats what we should be doing, otherwise its not been installed correctly. very surprised at the response so far from experienced sparks on here.

 

[GBDamo]

If the manufactures instructions that come with a CU state a torque screwdriver set to 2.5n must be used then thats what we should be doing, otherwise its not been installed correctly. very surprised at the response so far from experienced sparks on here.

That's a noble statement but I've often found torque screwdrivers to be wanting, especially with multi stranded cables. T&E up to 2.5mm gives reliable results but 4mm and upwards often need more attention than by hand.
Also quite a few of the less reputable component brands have screws made of cream cheese that slip with the torque screwdriver.
It's not that we buy them to look pretty in the van rather we buy them expecting great things and find them wanting.

I started using mine routinely, had too much slipping so reverted to the old fashioned way with a check using the torque screwdriver to confirm, which showed that my right arm is quite well calibrated.

Having said that much of my work is on old boards with snarled up screws already so probably not the best field test.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I've found the cage clamp type terminals torqued up to spec with 25mm tails are not tight enough for my liking, the slightest movement loosens them. As above, my screwdriver operating appendage is the best calibrated tool I possess.
What I would say is that it is essential to use a good quality undamaged tool with todays terminal screws, a sub-standard head will damage the generally poor quality terminal screws and it becomes impossible to be sure it's tight.

 

[Red Tony]

This threads reminded me of a lad I used to work with for a brief spell when I was doing a bit of new build housing work......
I had to check a fault on the doorbell ding dong of a house that had been handed over and Tennant's occupied.....
When I'd sorted it out, as I'd been last one in the fuseboard (as I always do and advise everyone else too) I checked the tightness of all the other terminations in DB not expecting much.........
However to my horror I didn't get just half a turn.....no no......I got a full turn and a half on each and every MCB way neutrals and cpcs......
Shocking tut tut......
I went over to another house where fellow sparky was fitting another db and caught him red handed.......
He was only making all his DBs off with a 12v drill!!!

I read the riot act to him and his excuse was it's quicker this way and under too much pressure (I agree those lads are) but I can't agree with walking away from a house with not as tight as I can get connections.
I told him would you live with yourself if one of those houses burns down with a family in it?
Another thing on a lesser note I realised at a later date he hardly drills and plugs he just screws straight into breeze block. Never seen that done before and must admit seemed tight (the black screws the plasterboard guys use).
I still rather drill/plug myself like.

 

[robd]

Anthony not knocking him but these are the reasons we get things imposed on us by the regs, lads just chucking it in and not checking. I personally do it up, give it a wiggle and then do it up again. Before I finish testing I check them all for tightness as well. What does it take, one minute?

 

[Pete999]

Might be good if you know what the right torque setting is for fixing bake light surface back boxes and junction boxes to a wall/joist.
As the amount of times I've just thought to myself just another quarter turn will do.....then crack!! Fcuk!!

bakelite - Bing - https://www.bing.com/search?q=bakelite&form=EDNTHT&mkt=en-gb&httpsmsn=1&plvar=0&refig=f69a7ff551ac49afb6209ba61f1945a7&PC=HCTS&sp=1&qs=LS&pq=bakelite&sc=8-8&cvid=f69a7ff551ac49afb6209ba61f1945a7&cc=GB&setlang=en-GB

 

[Pete999]

Might be good if you know what the right torque setting is for fixing bake light surface back boxes and junction boxes to a wall/joist.
As the amount of times I've just thought to myself just another quarter turn will do.....then crack!! Fcuk!!

Edit Deleted and it's Bakelite all one word.

 

[freddo]

Edit Deleted and it's Bakelite all one word.

Surely it's urea-formaldehyde.

I checked the tightness of all the other terminations in DB not expecting much.........

Had to alter some wiring for differently abled use in a brand new house, first owner not yet moved in. Got 5 turns on one of the incoming terminals of the main switch.

 

[Pete999]

Surely it's urea-formaldehyde.

Had to alter some wiring for differently abled use in a brand new house, first owner not yet moved in. Got 5 turns on one of the incoming terminals of the main switch.

May be but it certainly aint Bake Light

 

[freddo]

Maybe.

 

[Pete999]

Maybe.

OK maybe but it aint bake light

 

[7029 dave]

I have to use one, in certain circumstances , but I trust my arms Dave tight.

 

[Red Tony]

Edit Deleted and it's Bakelite all one word.

That's predacted Texas for you!
That's predicted text for you!

 

[freddo]

Perhaps the manufactures should just fit shear bolts to all their consumer unit terminals.

 

[Charlie_]

Perhaps the manufactures should just fit shear bolts to all their consumer unit terminals.

After looking at some of the installs about I think they already have

 

[UNG]

A torque screwdriver is a pretty useless piece of kit unless it is very regularly calibrated, just a small drop or knock could affect it's calibration . If you get it calibrated every 12 months and it is found to be working lower than it's set value do you then go back to all your customers of the last 3 or 6 or 9 months to recheck your work
In reality the only reliable way of using one is to have a calibration unit and check the driver before every job but that is an expensive option that no one will pay for. Therefore the age old talk method of "yes that's tight" works for me

 

[Charlie_]

Torque tools only necessary for industrial applications imo

 

[Deleted member 26818]

If an instrument is found to be out of calibration and giving incorrect readings/measurements, you only need to go back to previous customers for as far back as it takes you to find one that is correct.

 

[Christian1981]

They are a load of ---- had to buy a set when working on new build housing. Specific torques for different manufacturers and all of them felt loose would not trust them as far as I could throw them. I saw them in the shed yesterday.

 

[1Justin]

IMO it's in many cases an overreaction to loose connections which just demand more care. A set-up which assumes we are all as ham-fisted as the worst.
I've found numerous completely never done up connections, and also note that torque settings by the book on screw terminals (N/E bars) with single 1mm cables can flatten them ready to break. Some manufacturers are beginning to provide different torque settings dependent on the cable diameter. Makes sense, but if they were wrong before..
I'll sometimes get mine out, but its quite rare.

 

[baldelectrician]

I have one and use it
I actually point it out to the client (if they are loitering) pointing out that the consumer units vary in quality and tightness
I use Hager and the main switch is 3.6 Nm, where some makes are only 2.1Nm
Just shows the difference in build quality

People who understand car stuff and torque wrenches get it- it's a selling point, seperates us from 'people who don't follow the rules'


Waiting for fireworks....

 

[Charlie_]

I don’t see the issue..
I torque to my screwdrivers all the time. especially when the ******* thing won’t loosen a ******* screw or stabs me in the ******* finger

 

[stevels4]

Is it not a requirement under 7671 Reg 134.1.1 to use the correct torque?

 

[vjsmarwick]

I have one that a main contractor got conned in to buying me one Christmas when we visited the wholesalers together ! I enquired about my Christmas present or Christmas bonus and said I fancied the torque screwdriver to which he agreed !
Was only after he received the invoice at the end of January he realises the price and I told him I had been surprised when he had agreed to pay for it lol but only used it a handful of times in about 4 years and never had another prezzie