Unqualified, inexperienced badged "electricians"

[telectrix]

like mini-me only not as good looking.

typical essex.

 

[ipf]

You're not looking at the fact that many highly experienced tradesmen use the 5 week courses as a way into the trade....

Seriously, how much is an experienced plumber or builder going to learn about domestic from a 3 year apprenticeship? Not much other than the theory and classroom stuff, which is exactly what is taught on the 5 week courses.

This exact sort of argument happens in the aviation game (my line of work). 50% of commercial pilots are ex-RAF, or have started flying boxes in single engine light aircraft and made their way up. 50% have done 18 months at a training scheme and gone straight on to the flight deck of an Airbus or Boeing. Doesn't make them bad pilots!

As said previously, working as an apprentice, under the supervision of a fully qualified and experienced electrician, offers a fallback. Where is the supervision for a Electrical Trainee ???? Stood in front of the next batch, almost ready to be released to the unsuspecting !!!!!

 

[nickblake]

Ive been in the trade for 25 years now ,i started off watching , making mistakes when that was how you learnt ,now a three week course and your qualified well not quite talking im sure from 1st jan you have to be at least NVQ level 3 before you can join a Part P scheme , used to love doing mims cool stuff you realy could get it to look neat , i do think the problem these days is the dont care attitude if you get a good apprentice you keep them so many times i ve had the grumpy lad with a base ball cap chewing gum and stating im shattered at 2.30 in the afternoon bring back the 5 year appretership thats what i say

 

[ipf]

I know what you all mean about incompetent unqualified people being a danger, but i'm a "Domestic Installer" and i've worked alongside a number of "Fully Qualified" electricians and some of their work is shocking (no pun intended). Some don't even bother to test and just make the results up. On one job that I was helping out a fully qualified electrician finish wiring a new annex, they weren't even going to test before energising the new installation, I insisted that some tests should be done only to find out there was no earth on the house or the new annex!

My point is, just because someone is "fully qualified" it doesn't necessarily mean they are going to do a better job than a Domestic Installer.

True....can't disagree. But you can't say that's going to be the happen in the majority of cases. There are examples of everything and anything.

 

[Engineer54]

like mini-me only not as good looking.

typical essex.

What's the matter then ?? Us Essex lads can't help being blessed with good looks!! lol!!!

 

[Octopus]

Personally I don't there's a right or wrong in all this debate when there are so many DIY'ers, builders, plumbers, etc, etc, doing notifiable work which they don't.

Like it or not a Electrical Trainee is more likely than not to have PL insurance, scheme membership and the knowledge that goes with scheme membership.

So who would you rather have in to do work on your mum's house?

If you don't like it why don't you go off, qualify at night school as an accountant and set up your own business?? or maybe do the same as a brickie. Or as a mechanic and start your own garage??

The biggest issue facing UK plc, is the fact that there are so few opportunities for the young to get a good training and for the more mature the options are even fewer.

Some of the posters here come over as nasty whingers, which, on a public forum does the industry no good at all.

There are good Electricians, bad electricians, good DI's and bad DI's.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

id imagine their having the same discussion on the piolts forum..

There'll be a chap with a silk scarf and posh accent shouting "TROUBLE IN THE COCKPIT CHAPS?"

 

[Des 56]

from 1st jan you have to be at least NVQ level 3 before you can join a Part P scheme

Did not the Niceic scupper that idea, at least temporarily whilst they think about how to generate another cash cow ?

 

[telectrix]

probably. reminds one of mel brooks in blazing saddles " we've got to protect our ********* jobs, harumph".

 

[alarm man]

Ive been in the trade for 25 years now ,i started off watching , making mistakes when that was how you learnt ,now a three week course and your qualified well not quite talking im sure from 1st jan you have to be at least NVQ level 3 before you can join a Part P scheme , used to love doing mims cool stuff you realy could get it to look neat , i do think the problem these days is the dont care attitude if you get a good apprentice you keep them so many times i ve had the grumpy lad with a base ball cap chewing gum and stating im shattered at 2.30 in the afternoon bring back the 5 year appretership thats what i say

old school dinosaur...:wink5:

 

[telectrix]

25 years? newcomer then.LOL.

 

[highspark]

im sure from 1st jan you have to be at least NVQ level 3 before you can join a Part P scheme.

Never happened mate. It was all rubbish. This is what needs to come into force so badly

 

[Engineer54]

from 1st jan you have to be at least NVQ level 3 before you can join a Part P scheme

Did not the Niceic scupper that idea, at least temporarily whilst they think about how to generate another cash cow ?

I think they ALL did!! would have cost them an absolute fortune!! I dare say, they'll bring out there own NVQ level 3, one that you can't fail to achieve!! Something like Napits own version of C&G 2391 but not worth a light outside of Nappit...lol!!!

 

[telectrix]

so what about guys that went through their time before nvq was even thought of?

 

[topcat]

I would like to say that Iam in agrement with DNS1 some of us have had to take the easy way in because their is no other way. But I have found a local guy who will let me shadow him and learn with him I would not dream of looking at a full rewire on my own for a while but have to start some where and have found most people in this game are open and frendly.

 

[ipf]

There'll be a chap with a silk scarf and posh accent shouting "TROUBLE IN THE COCKPIT CHAPS?"

''CHOCS AWAY, use the crimps and heatshrink''

 

[nickblake]

like it lol , Im having my next elecsa assesment tomorrow panicing like buggery why im not sure , this week ive found 2 installations with floating earths both connected to an unconnected earth block obviousley install was not tested other wise it would be noticed , also a new house with the polarity incorrect on es wall lights ,a hot tub with the bubbles pump upside down with the cable entries on the top (did point this out to the house holder who called in the hot tub guys and the cut and fixed a plastic 5ltr bottle over the top) i ask you why just why lol ,think ill just plod on

 

[brucelee]

Hi my take on it is its all a scam

I had a aprrenticeship 25yr ago and to my great regret and being a 16 -17 yr thinking i wasnt learning enough and being used as a lacky gave it up
i have been involved on and off with electrical installation for last 25 yrs doing New build domestic , rewires some commercial and little industrial mainly through lack of quals i have not been and for last few yrs because the mrs was left disabled
I decided the only way for me to get back into what i always wanted to do was gain the right qualifications
After repeatedly contacting jokecentre and any other organisation i could i was basically told there was no training or funding and because of being a carer there was no help
so i had to pay private for a rip off course after contacting a few colleges and getting no reply after much googling
I paid £4020 for 6 weeks practical training and theory a megger 1552 , bs7671, OSG a large folder of notes, ck toolkit and 2382-10, 2377, 2393, and a logic full scope and defined scopes award which yes now i know isnt prob worth the paper
i enjoyed the course felt i learned a lot in a very short time but it is very rushed
then when i finished i noticed all employers were asking for 2391
So i enrolled on 8 week evening course and studied at home for 4months every day 12 hrs + a day and with the 8 evenings felt i knew enough for the exam
I took the exam in june 2010 and passed first time only 4 of us did in the class out of 10 I was the only one not working in the industry all the rest were so called fully qualified electricians
I then decided i wanted to learn more so again i contacted every college within a 100 mile radius to get on 2330 sept 2010 but i was initialy told there was a place then there wasnt
after speaking to a tutor i was told not to bother with lv2 as they said it would be a waste of time for me
I said i aint bothered i would start on lv1 if i had to
then In march 2011 i tried again as i heard 2330 and 2356 was ending the tutor rang me back on last so called registration day 31.3.11 at 3.30 and asked me if i could get there and enrol for 4 i was in, quick drive in rush hr and enrolled was due to start april when i turned as I knew C&G had extended and the course i was due to start was cancelled as all the lv2 who had been fast tracked onto lv3 had gone back to lv2 to finish off properly
in the end had to sit in with them just doing sample lv2 papers testing my knowledge to see what i knew and didnt
then in sept 2011 started lv3 and done a 302 practical before xmas got a distinction all rest of class havnt done theres yet because of my 2391 tutor just chucked me in for it lol
anyway still on the course and got me 301 on the 1st march

My experience of private or college is
fast track is very rushed and doesnt cover enough on 3 phase but very intense and i prefer it
college is very slow and all you get is hand outs and maybe 1 calculation on inductive reactance or capactive reactance at the bottom and that according to C&G requirements and syllabus is it
there is very little practical and have been told it was same on lv2
college isnt the holy grail of studying
at the end of it all i found i learned the most from studying myself
i will keep you upto date on how the rest of it goes

I Only wish i had kept my apprenticeship up as that was looking back a more in depth way of studying the theory and as it was 6 weeks at college theory in the mornings and practical afternoons 4 weeks at work it was a whole lot better way of learning and understanding
I am also trying to complete a NVQ which will be the most difficult as i am a carer and the work i have had to do so far has been domestic with no containment with metal conduit or trunking etc and i have registered and passed with elecsa and got a A i didnt need to look in the regs for the answers as i knew them but for some things showed him were they were located in the regs
Its all down to the person
every scheme,course is just a scam and ripoff like the new regs etc all just another way of taxing people

and at the end of the day its knowing your limitations on what you are competent with and what your not could i walk into a industrial plant and be competent no
But if i went in with someone who is i would learn quickly enough
there should be one set of quals and should include a lot more practical experience in the real world as at the end of the day like any job thats were you really learn how to do it like driving the theory is all well and good but what about the actual driving
I am trying to set up self employed but also trying to gain employment with a qualified experienced electrician to learn from someone who knows

the old ways were the best but they are long gone

 

[SPARTYKUS]

so what about guys that went through their time before nvq was even thought of?

My grandad never took a driving test, his licence was handed to him in the war and he got on with it. Never felt safer with himat the wheel,


Well that is after he'd done the 30 years for the bus crash (just kidding)

 

[alarm man]

.

Some of the posters here come over as nasty wingers, which, on a public forum does the industry no good at all.

.

its not whinging thats makes the industry bad,its the lack of training