OP
Engineer54
But NOT worthless to these training centres, who probably charge a couple of hundred quid for that bit of worthless paper... lol!!
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Please checkout the new poll we will be pushing hard, and want some good stories to come out of this
result are public - you can change your vote over time, which might genuinely be the case from time to time.
Search the forum,
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But NOT worthless to these training centres, who probably charge a couple of hundred quid for that bit of worthless paper... lol!!
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G
haha spot on mate your right
I also noticed that interest in your calculus joke was rapidly approaching zero.
I feel embarrassed now.
I'll go stand in the corner, anyone joining me ?
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they are changing the logo for di's to use to stop confusion..
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S
....er, but the MP it started with had a bereavement in the house as a result of dodgy workmanship.... don't wish anymore on them dude.
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those are standard quotes from di's Electrical Trainee.you cant just do a short course and be a spark,and i keep reading the same stuff over again,why do people think domestics are any easier or pose less risk of electric shock than commercial or industrial,electrcity is the same what ever industry,the training in it should be the same,the domestic game thanks to part p has opened the door to half baked sparks via a quick course,these half baked sparks would never get a start in the commercial or industrial game nor should they be able to infest the domestic game ahead of fully qualified sparks doing domestic work.if you want to be a spark do it right you dont have to be 16 and jib, do the years at college do the night school thing,it takes a while,plenty with wifes/kids/mortgages have done it
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id imagine their having the same discussion on the piolts forum..
Undoubtably they are... but scheme pilots have been around for years and we don't get many crashes in the western world... the figures speak for themselves!
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because it takes years not weeks,your quote about how long will it take a builder to learn domestic doesnt cut it,isnt building a house the same as building a shop.with regards practical a neat chase or well drilled hole does not make a safe installation.
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planes fly themselves these days,there no auto install with electrics
With nonsense comments like that I begin to wonder if you're just trying to start an argument.
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A
me..no just replying to forum posts with my opinion,thats what the gigs all about..you read posts you agree on some disagree on others
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And the very reason there shouldn't be this ''Domestic Installer'' designation, your either an electrician or your NOT!! Folk with a little knowledge are more dangerous than those with none. .....But often think they know More than they actually do!!!
As said previously, working as an apprentice, under the supervision of a fully qualified and experienced electrician, offers a fallback. Where is the supervision for a Electrical Trainee ???? Stood in front of the next batch, almost ready to be released to the unsuspecting !!!!!
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True....can't disagree. But you can't say that's going to be the happen in the majority of cases. There are examples of everything and anything.
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What's the matter then ?? Us Essex lads can't help being blessed with good looks!! lol!!!
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S
There'll be a chap with a silk scarf and posh accent shouting "TROUBLE IN THE COCKPIT CHAPS?"
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old school dinosaur...:wink5:
Discuss Unqualified, inexperienced badged "electricians" in the Electrician Courses : Electrical Quals area at ElectriciansForums.net
But NOT worthless to these training centres, who probably charge a couple of hundred quid for that bit of worthless paper... lol!!
OP
SPARTYKUS
Did anyone get my calculus joke? Never attempted one before.
OP
wattsy
I know what you all mean about incompetent unqualified people being a danger, but i'm a "Domestic Installer" and i've worked alongside a number of "Fully Qualified" electricians and some of their work is shocking (no pun intended). Some don't even bother to test and just make the results up. On one job that I was helping out a fully qualified electrician finish wiring a new annex, they weren't even going to test before energising the new installation, I insisted that some tests should be done only to find out there was no earth on the house or the new annex!
My point is, just because someone is "fully qualified" it doesn't necessarily mean they are going to do a better job than a Domestic Installer.
My point is, just because someone is "fully qualified" it doesn't necessarily mean they are going to do a better job than a Domestic Installer.
OP
highspark
A domestic installer is a chancer though. He/she isn't experienced enough to have the name "ELECTRICIAN" branded across their vans. The problem I am talking about is that customers cannot differenciate between fully qualified and a chancer and all domestic Electrical Trainee are chancers! My wholesaler told me someone came in and asked for a 5.5mm earth....to which he said what for? The nearest we do is 6mm...but why do you need it. He said for the main earth. He said what? Chancer said well I've just done the adiabetic equation and I need a 5.5mm....Wholesaler said well what size is your bonding...to which he said 10mm....he was the laughing stock of the shop and the wholesaler was telling everyone. Inexperience, not a clue rubbish from someone trying to make people think he knows what he is doing. The blokes driving round in a sign written van with a scheme splashed all over it...incompetent twerp isn't the word. The same bloke was putting 4mm twin and earth radials in a house about 25m2.....just following the regs!
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Perhaps the DI's should have a green ''L'' plate. It works for new drivers.
OP
Guest112
haha spot on mate your right
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I also noticed that interest in your calculus joke was rapidly approaching zero.
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I did see it, but it did not drop in at first till he had to explain it and no one likes to explain a joke.
I feel embarrassed now.
I'll go stand in the corner, anyone joining me ?
OP
Engineer54
I take most of these quotes of older fully qualified electricians acting like beginners or chancers with a large pinch of salt. There has always been, and probably always will be, a bad element of such bad qualified guys, but no-where like on the scale it must be for the Electrical Trainee DI element...
I honestly think it's just used as an argument in most cases to substantiate the numbty designation of being a Domestic Installer!!...
I honestly think it's just used as an argument in most cases to substantiate the numbty designation of being a Domestic Installer!!...
OP
alarm man
they are changing the logo for di's to use to stop confusion..
OP
highspark
Lol take that as a joke?
OP
alarm man
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My take on the whole thing is it was introduced for kitchen fitters and similar as a safer option to move sockets and make sure protection was in place etc. Unfortunately it has left a loophole for less experienced people to take work on that they, lets be honest, were not fully trained to do.
In a world of people losing jobs and re-training to put bread on the table (which i'm sure we would all do) or starting up on their own it is an easy way to get up the ladder. Its a shame the public are their guinea pigs and i'm sure they will learn in time but the regulations don't tell you how to do a job and no two are the same. It all started by an MP and i hope sometime soon the same MP has a Electrical Trainee turn up at his house real soon and all this them and us can come to an end.
In a world of people losing jobs and re-training to put bread on the table (which i'm sure we would all do) or starting up on their own it is an easy way to get up the ladder. Its a shame the public are their guinea pigs and i'm sure they will learn in time but the regulations don't tell you how to do a job and no two are the same. It all started by an MP and i hope sometime soon the same MP has a Electrical Trainee turn up at his house real soon and all this them and us can come to an end.
OP
SPARTYKUS
....er, but the MP it started with had a bereavement in the house as a result of dodgy workmanship.... don't wish anymore on them dude.
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Ok then, perhaps a building inspector, no one likes them. Nahh, stick with the MP.
I really think we need to find a way of distinguishing between the 5 week wonder people...
Big difference between someone who's never touched a screwdriver until he did the course, and a person with donkeys years of experience in other trades, or an engineering background, who does the 5 week course as it's the only way in.
It's really not fair to kick off about "domestic installers" like they're a lower form of life.
I'm new to the electrics game, but I can't do a 3 year apprenticeship. I can't afford to, I have a mortgage and bills to pay.
I'm doing a short course (not a £8k one, a "proper" one from a local place), but I'm also working my arse off with the books, I've got an engineering/maths background and have donkeys years of experience with plumbing/plastering/building work and plan to do everything to the very best of my ability and only when I feel confident to do it.
It's quite upsetting to have people talk about me like I'm scum of the earth because I'm not 16 years old and with the luxury of being able to do a full apprenticeship.
Of course there are people out there who are led astray by the bull**** from the "training providers" (give us £10k and you'll be god's gift to the sparky world), but there are also a hell of a lot of us who just want to do domestic work and earn an honest living.
Big difference between someone who's never touched a screwdriver until he did the course, and a person with donkeys years of experience in other trades, or an engineering background, who does the 5 week course as it's the only way in.
It's really not fair to kick off about "domestic installers" like they're a lower form of life.
I'm new to the electrics game, but I can't do a 3 year apprenticeship. I can't afford to, I have a mortgage and bills to pay.
I'm doing a short course (not a £8k one, a "proper" one from a local place), but I'm also working my arse off with the books, I've got an engineering/maths background and have donkeys years of experience with plumbing/plastering/building work and plan to do everything to the very best of my ability and only when I feel confident to do it.
It's quite upsetting to have people talk about me like I'm scum of the earth because I'm not 16 years old and with the luxury of being able to do a full apprenticeship.
Of course there are people out there who are led astray by the bull**** from the "training providers" (give us £10k and you'll be god's gift to the sparky world), but there are also a hell of a lot of us who just want to do domestic work and earn an honest living.
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fair comment. i myself came into the trade from an engine beering background. it's the ex . office workers mainly that don't have a clue, even after passing a course. we can all write or talk a good job, but it takes experience to be able to do it right and in a reasonable time scale, good on you for knowing your limitations and doing what you feel competent with.
OP
DurhamSparky
i never touched pyro other than to change a metal back box and facia...!
FP is more common dog now!!
FP is more common dog now!!
OP
highspark
I found a 6mm cooker cable fed from the CU into a jb. From the jb two 2.5mm flex one down to the kitchen sockets and the other feeding the boiler. From the first socket in the kitchen. It spured both ways with no FCU insight. Apparently they where a reputable kitchen fitting company and the electrician knew what he was talking about. No doubt a Electrical Trainee
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Don't really think a reason why someone does not have the experience is because they don't have the money, so feel sorry for us.
If someone needs heart surgury and they could only afford a dentist to do the job it would be in the papers.
The broad statement of DI's is a bit missleading as there are many very good long term sparkies out there that for whatever reason are only registered for that. Its as been said, the 5week training brigade making the whole situation worse in de-valuing the hard work and knowledge gained from years at college having work taken away from them in a very hard world ATM by someone who does not know one end of a diode from another. surely that is the whole reason of the thread.
If someone needs heart surgury and they could only afford a dentist to do the job it would be in the papers.
The broad statement of DI's is a bit missleading as there are many very good long term sparkies out there that for whatever reason are only registered for that. Its as been said, the 5week training brigade making the whole situation worse in de-valuing the hard work and knowledge gained from years at college having work taken away from them in a very hard world ATM by someone who does not know one end of a diode from another. surely that is the whole reason of the thread.
Quote
Making off Pryo!!
Stand by a bloody great dist board,in a windy corridor making sub main pyro ends off when its below freezing and your feet have taken root to the concrete floor and you have forgotten your hands used to have fingers on the ends of them, and you may wish that it "was" out of date
Making off Pryo!!
Stand by a bloody great dist board,in a windy corridor making sub main pyro ends off when its below freezing and your feet have taken root to the concrete floor and you have forgotten your hands used to have fingers on the ends of them, and you may wish that it "was" out of date
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You're not looking at the fact that many highly experienced tradesmen use the 5 week courses as a way into the trade....
Seriously, how much is an experienced plumber or builder going to learn about domestic from a 3 year apprenticeship? Not much other than the theory and classroom stuff, which is exactly what is taught on the 5 week courses.
This exact sort of argument happens in the aviation game (my line of work). 50% of commercial pilots are ex-RAF, or have started flying boxes in single engine light aircraft and made their way up. 50% have done 18 months at a training scheme and gone straight on to the flight deck of an Airbus or Boeing. Doesn't make them bad pilots!
Seriously, how much is an experienced plumber or builder going to learn about domestic from a 3 year apprenticeship? Not much other than the theory and classroom stuff, which is exactly what is taught on the 5 week courses.
This exact sort of argument happens in the aviation game (my line of work). 50% of commercial pilots are ex-RAF, or have started flying boxes in single engine light aircraft and made their way up. 50% have done 18 months at a training scheme and gone straight on to the flight deck of an Airbus or Boeing. Doesn't make them bad pilots!
OP
alarm man
those are standard quotes from di's Electrical Trainee.you cant just do a short course and be a spark,and i keep reading the same stuff over again,why do people think domestics are any easier or pose less risk of electric shock than commercial or industrial,electrcity is the same what ever industry,the training in it should be the same,the domestic game thanks to part p has opened the door to half baked sparks via a quick course,these half baked sparks would never get a start in the commercial or industrial game nor should they be able to infest the domestic game ahead of fully qualified sparks doing domestic work.if you want to be a spark do it right you dont have to be 16 and jib, do the years at college do the night school thing,it takes a while,plenty with wifes/kids/mortgages have done it
OP
alarm man
id imagine their having the same discussion on the piolts forum..
Undoubtably they are... but scheme pilots have been around for years and we don't get many crashes in the western world... the figures speak for themselves!
OP
alarm man
because it takes years not weeks,your quote about how long will it take a builder to learn domestic doesnt cut it,isnt building a house the same as building a shop.with regards practical a neat chase or well drilled hole does not make a safe installation.
OP
alarm man
planes fly themselves these days,there no auto install with electrics
There is a very big difference between domestic work and commercial/industrial as we all know.
Yes, electricity is always dangerous, regardless of where the installation is, but simple domestic installations need a lot less knowledge than industrial. Less knowledge, less to learn, shorter course...
Yes, electricity is always dangerous, regardless of where the installation is, but simple domestic installations need a lot less knowledge than industrial. Less knowledge, less to learn, shorter course...
With nonsense comments like that I begin to wonder if you're just trying to start an argument.
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The last two apprentices i've had, never learnt much at college, only some of the theory. Everything they use and know i taught them during the three years while at college. they were like mini-me only not as good looking. I know i could trust them to do any job and i would never need to check it. Now that is not because of the bit of paper they hold.
C&G has gone down the pan now. A new cert from them is like a happy shopper meat pie, it won't taste like it says on the box.
I rate sparks by who they have worked for and for how long. not by the bits of paper anymore.
C&G has gone down the pan now. A new cert from them is like a happy shopper meat pie, it won't taste like it says on the box.
I rate sparks by who they have worked for and for how long. not by the bits of paper anymore.
OP
Engineer54
Well MICC will certainly show you the men from the boy's...lol But in reality, it's not a difficult cable to work with at all. You obviously have to know how to make the ends off properly, and know how to dress the cable, along with it's installation restrictions. (which isn't many) But once you have that under your belt, your away... lol!!
The difficulty if any is when installing the bigger MICC cables, as once you get to 16mm and above, dressing can be a bitch without the proper tools like the wheeled cable straighteners and the bending tools...
OK maybe a little simplistic, as you would need a bit of experience in working with the stuff, to be proficient, but it's certainly not rocket science. In my opinion, one of the best cable types ever to be invented, and looks the dogs whatsits when professionally installed....
The difficulty if any is when installing the bigger MICC cables, as once you get to 16mm and above, dressing can be a bitch without the proper tools like the wheeled cable straighteners and the bending tools...
OK maybe a little simplistic, as you would need a bit of experience in working with the stuff, to be proficient, but it's certainly not rocket science. In my opinion, one of the best cable types ever to be invented, and looks the dogs whatsits when professionally installed....
OP
alarm man
me..no just replying to forum posts with my opinion,thats what the gigs all about..you read posts you agree on some disagree on others
they were like mini-me only not as good looking.
Now that is what I call a spark who speaks with confidence in his ability and his image
Do domestic installers have this confidence ?
If you do and you you wanna be a spark,just post up your image and everyone can vote you in or out lol
No offence meant to my fellow uglies
Now that is what I call a spark who speaks with confidence in his ability and his image
Do domestic installers have this confidence ?
If you do and you you wanna be a spark,just post up your image and everyone can vote you in or out lol
No offence meant to my fellow uglies
OP
Engineer54
And the very reason there shouldn't be this ''Domestic Installer'' designation, your either an electrician or your NOT!! Folk with a little knowledge are more dangerous than those with none. .....But often think they know More than they actually do!!!
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As said previously, working as an apprentice, under the supervision of a fully qualified and experienced electrician, offers a fallback. Where is the supervision for a Electrical Trainee ???? Stood in front of the next batch, almost ready to be released to the unsuspecting !!!!!
OP
nickblake
Ive been in the trade for 25 years now ,i started off watching , making mistakes when that was how you learnt ,now a three week course and your qualified well not quite talking im sure from 1st jan you have to be at least NVQ level 3 before you can join a Part P scheme , used to love doing mims cool stuff you realy could get it to look neat , i do think the problem these days is the dont care attitude if you get a good apprentice you keep them so many times i ve had the grumpy lad with a base ball cap chewing gum and stating im shattered at 2.30 in the afternoon bring back the 5 year appretership thats what i say
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True....can't disagree. But you can't say that's going to be the happen in the majority of cases. There are examples of everything and anything.
OP
Engineer54
What's the matter then ?? Us Essex lads can't help being blessed with good looks!! lol!!!
OP
Octopus
Personally I don't there's a right or wrong in all this debate when there are so many DIY'ers, builders, plumbers, etc, etc, doing notifiable work which they don't.
Like it or not a Electrical Trainee is more likely than not to have PL insurance, scheme membership and the knowledge that goes with scheme membership.
So who would you rather have in to do work on your mum's house?
If you don't like it why don't you go off, qualify at night school as an accountant and set up your own business?? or maybe do the same as a brickie. Or as a mechanic and start your own garage??
The biggest issue facing UK plc, is the fact that there are so few opportunities for the young to get a good training and for the more mature the options are even fewer.
Some of the posters here come over as nasty whingers, which, on a public forum does the industry no good at all.
There are good Electricians, bad electricians, good DI's and bad DI's.
Like it or not a Electrical Trainee is more likely than not to have PL insurance, scheme membership and the knowledge that goes with scheme membership.
So who would you rather have in to do work on your mum's house?
If you don't like it why don't you go off, qualify at night school as an accountant and set up your own business?? or maybe do the same as a brickie. Or as a mechanic and start your own garage??
The biggest issue facing UK plc, is the fact that there are so few opportunities for the young to get a good training and for the more mature the options are even fewer.
Some of the posters here come over as nasty whingers, which, on a public forum does the industry no good at all.
There are good Electricians, bad electricians, good DI's and bad DI's.
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OP
SPARTYKUS
There'll be a chap with a silk scarf and posh accent shouting "TROUBLE IN THE COCKPIT CHAPS?"
OP
alarm man
old school dinosaur...:wink5:
Reply to Unqualified, inexperienced badged "electricians" in the Electrician Courses : Electrical Quals area at ElectriciansForums.net
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