Use of tie wraps and bunching conductors in DB's

[Darkwood]

I only mentioned closing it as it kept going in circles regarding the questioning of the OP... thats dealt with now and no issue with it staying open if we are not revisiting the same old ground...

As for the tiewrap issue it is not really an issue domestic or even commercial or industrial light circuit demand but where you get heavy loading on installs especially industrial it would be considered a no-no to bunch and tiewrap cables together in such a uncalculated manor, everything from derating factors to mcb's rating etc all start been crucial to design when you are getting larger installs... believe you me that there are those that don't even realise mcb's may need grouping factors applied when running close to rating for long durations...

Tiewraps are acceptable but it is circumstancial and to ensure you are on the correct side of the situation then cable calcs is what should be applicable and not because it makes the job look neater. If you have ever removed a failed or warm breaker and noticed a circular heat damaged patch on the side then this is often to do with poor design and not mcb issues...same principle different context.

 

[CT13]

If you have ever removed a failed or warm breaker and noticed a circular heat damaged patch on the side then this is often to do with poor design and not mcb issues...same principle different context.

That's an interesting point.

 

[silva.foxx]

regarding the foxx, I missed his post where the language was so bad the post had to be removed. I personally have no issue with language, however I know of several long term members banned for it, so he is a lucky boy or he is in with the Mods :38:

Certainly not in with the mods... the language was slight... even my church-going nan wouldn't have slapped me down for it. Speak up and you get muted!

 

[Leesparkykent]

CT13 (Are you a Kent man!!!!)

Bottom line there is nothing stopping you ty-rapping your cables together if you want to, and as long as you are happy that there is no degradation of the current carrying capacity you ty rap as your heart is content.

Ty rapping is a modern thing, I would have had my back side rimmed if I ty-ed cable together, but now a days circuits are tapped together in trunking runs which was in my time a no no.

It is just another modern trend, same as running CPCs in metal conduit and trunking, and if that is the way of things then go for it.

I thought the same from the name CT13 lol.

 

[CT13]

Obviously a Kent postcode then !

 

[cliffed]

NICEIC don't like it,that's for sure,but the bunching of cabling & the calculation that takes place to calculate the size of cable,are for circuits for that installation,it is not at the distribution board end,& if done practically cable ties are not an issue.It does tidy things up a bit,& like most control panel wiring cable ties are used.
Cheers

 

[davesparks]

NICEIC don't like it,that's for sure,but the bunching of cabling & the calculation that takes place to calculate the size of cable,are for circuits for that installation,it is not at the distribution board end,& if done practically cable ties are not an issue.It does tidy things up a bit,& like most control panel wiring cable ties are used.
Cheers

The calculations apply to the whole length of the cable, you can't just ignore the first 3' of cable!

 

[Darkwood]

NICEIC don't like it,that's for sure,but the bunching of cabling & the calculation that takes place to calculate the size of cable,are for circuits for that installation,it is not at the distribution board end,& if done practically cable ties are not an issue.It does tidy things up a bit,& like most control panel wiring cable ties are used.
Cheers

Control panels are a different concept as most of the wiring has negligible load as they are just signal cables and tbh if a control panel is done correctly there is little need for any tie wraps as slotted trunking and cable banding is often used, and yes where the power cables are run and supplies to motors, heaters etc and other loads then the rules still apply although we are getting out of the BS7671 area here tbh.

 

[shanky887614]

Control panels are a different concept as most of the wiring has negligible load as they are just signal cables and tbh if a control panel is done correctly there is little need for any tie wraps as slotted trunking and cable banding is often used, and yes where the power cables are run and supplies to motors, heaters etc and other loads then the rules still apply although we are getting out of the BS7671 area here tbh.

to add to what dw is saying, we wire a seperate cable to each temp sensor and they draw something like 200ma so sfa when .75 cable is normally used.

most proper control panels use panel trunking so no tywraps would be anywhere near it, door access panels are a different beast, your lucky if you can close the door on some panels you stumble across

 

[Pete999]

Don't think there is a Regulation saying "thou shall not use tie wraps in a CU" but if you think about it there is, or could be a problem with overheating, especially on heavy loaded circuits, in my opinion it's a no no, looks nice but think of the problems doing this could cause. And then you have the problem with testing, trying to identify conductors all neatly tie wrapped up, uugh

 

[KennyKen]

DB's in Aussieland are a dream. Cable ducts throughout the boards to prevent individual conductor grouping and looks asthetically pleasing!

 

[Pete999]

DB's in Aussieland are a dream. Cable ducts throughout the boards to prevent individual conductor grouping and looks asthetically pleasing!

Strewth lol

 

[Deleted member 72666]

DB's in Aussieland are a dream. Cable ducts throughout the boards to prevent individual conductor grouping and looks asthetically pleasing!

It would be interesting to see a few pics!

 

[KennyKen]

Will do.

 

[bartkusal]

Seems like everyone only concerned about overheating factor alone.
As close as you can get in new Regs book and what I think OP meant is a new Regulation (521.200) giving requirements for the methods of support of wiring systems in escape routes.
Apparently to protect fireman. Your cable ties will not comply.

.

 

[shanky887614]

Seems like everyone only concerned about overheating factor alone.
As close as you can get in new Regs book and what I think OP meant is a new Regulation (521.200) giving requirements for the methods of support of wiring systems in escape routes.
Apparently to protect fireman. Your cable ties will not comply.

.

metal tywraps comply

 

[marconi]

In the properties I own the electrician I use to rewire always allows free space around the conductors as far as is practicable but provides one small cable tie around each of the 3 pairs of conductors of the final ring circuit so that the wiring for each ring circuit is clearly identifiable. This helps him when he does regular inspection and testing for me and any possible erroneous mix up of them. He uses a different coloured cable tie for each frc.

 

[bartkusal]

Very strange thing to do, as in domestic properties especially you don't see the length of cable, unless in your houses they are clipped direct on the walls...

In the properties I own the electrician I use to rewire always allows free space around the conductors as far as is practicable but provides one small cable tie around each of the 3 pairs of conductors of the final ring circuit so that the wiring for each ring circuit is clearly identifiable. This helps him when he does regular inspection and testing for me and any possible erroneous mix up of them. He uses a different coloured cable tie for each frc.

 

[marconi]

To clarify my last post - within the Consumer Unit.

 

[Resu]

To clarify my last post - within the Consumer Unit.

It was obvious what you meant!

 

[Risteard]

Your cable ties will not comply.

.

Leaving aside stainless steel cable ties for a second, how would cable ties inside a distribution board lead to collapse and entanglement? Surely the distribution board will contain the wiring system!

 

[bartkusal]

sorry, didn't realized that we talking within cu....

 

[conrad]

Owning the new book wouldnt have helped with the question then?