Which edition the consumer unit is

[Paul Dodds]

Hi,

Just a quick question. I've done an EICR on a house and the sparks who I normally go to for advice has said the board sounds like a 14th edition. He knows most things but in this case I think he might be wrong! I believe it's a 15th but can anyone give me a 'general' break down of the various editions so I know for future, i.e 15th is one RCD... I even have a photo for you to look at, you may have come across a couple of these!!

Don't worry I straightened up the MCB's before closing the cover and MCB 1 is unused.
I've done a few google searches for the breakers but they don't give an edition.

 

[westward10]

There is no such thing as an Edition consumer unit.

 

[Paul Dodds]

Ok, so the consumer unit complies with XX edition?

 

[Spoon]

Hi OP: I think I know what you are getting at.
My CU only has 1 RCD in it and that has been referred to as a 16th Edition unit.

 

[Pete999]

Ok, so the consumer unit complies with XX edition?

Deleted

 

[westward10]

Why do you want this mythical Edition on an EICR it has no relevance, consumer units are manufactured to British Standards and not Editions of the Wiring Regulations.

 

[Paul Dodds]

Thanks Spoon for the sensible and helpful response.

 

[Paul Dodds]

The consumer unit complies with BS7671 16th edition. I would recommend that it be replaced to comply current regulations - C3. Or would you just say complies with an earlier edition of the regs.
That sort of thing.

 

[westward10]

That consumer unit does not comply to any Edition of BS7671 and why you are Coding for a replacement to bring it up to current Regs is quite frankly beyond me.

 

[Spoon]

I would recommend that it be replaced to comply current regulations

I would not say that to the customer......
If you said that to me then I would ask to see where it says in the regs that a CU, that is not having any additional circuits to it, must be changed if it's not up to current regs...

 

[PEG]

An EICR is not estimation of date or editions,it is conducted to assess condition and compliance,with mind to those in place,when fitted.

It's actual age,is irrelevant to the above,although one can give cause,to the other.

The easy,standard example of this,is Pyro.

 

[Adam W]

I'd just say that it doesn't comply with the current edition.

 

[Spoon]

I'd just say that it doesn't comply with the current edition.

While adding "but then again about 98% of domestic CU don't comply to current regulations....."

 

[sparksburnout]

Have you got some decent Professional Indemnity insurance?

 

[Pete999]

Hi,

Just a quick question. I've done an EICR on a house and the sparks who I normally go to for advice has said the board sounds like a 14th edition. He knows most things but in this case I think he might be wrong! I believe it's a 15th but can anyone give me a 'general' break down of the various editions so I know for future, i.e 15th is one RCD... I even have a photo for you to look at, you may have come across a couple of these!!

Don't worry I straightened up the MCB's before closing the cover and MCB 1 is unused.
I've done a few google searches for the breakers but they don't give an edition.

 

[Adam W]

While adding "but then again about 98% of domestic CU don't comply to current regulations....."

Where did you get that statistic from, and what difference does it make?

 

[Pete999]

Where did you get that statistic from, and what difference does it make?

It was a generalisation I think

 

[Spoon]

Where did you get that statistic from, and what difference does it make?

It was a generalisation

Please see @Pete999 post above.

If you have a figure of how many Amendment 3 CU's have been fitted then I'd be interested to know.

 

[Pete999]

Where did you get that statistic from, and what difference does it make?

Have you bothered to read the link I sent you? top of page 2 I think it was.

 

[Adam W]

Have you bothered to read the link I sent you? top of page 2 I think it was.

No, I couldn't be bothered downloading and trawling through all that lot. Just give me the gist of it.

 

[Paul Dodds]

My apologies, I thought it would have been a C3 because of the line: Condition of enclosure(s) in terms of fire rating etc (421.1.1.201; 526.5)

 

[Adam W]

Please see @Pete999 post above.

If you have a figure of how many Amendment 3 CU's have been fitted then I'd be interested to know.

98% of them since Amendment 3 came into force.

 

[Spoon]

98% of them since Amendment 3 came into force.

That is wonderful news.... I can sleep now..

 

[Paul Dodds]

I'm only "recommending" that it be changed not that it is changed. I would of thought highlighting improvements that can be made is a good thing?

 

[Adam W]

I'm only "recommending" that it be changed not that it is changed. I would of thought highlighting improvements that can be made is a good thing?

Yes, you are quite correct - there's no requirement to replace an old CU, but one of the purposes of an EICR is to highlight where improvements can be made, for example if something no longer complies with current regs.
It seems certain members have got confused here.

 

[Spoon]

You guys work for British Gas...

 

[Paul Dodds]

Thank you Adam.

 

[westward10]

Yes, you are quite correct - there's no requirement to replace an old CU, but one of the purposes of an EICR is to highlight where improvements can be made, for example if something no longer complies with current regs.
It seems certain members have got confused here.

Confused never, you state facts and then if necessary discuss with the client what actions if any they would like to take.

 

[Paul Dodds]

421.1.201 Within domestic (household) premises, consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies shall comply with BS EN 61439-3

 

[Spoon]

421.1.201 Within domestic (household) premises, consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies shall comply with BS EN 61439-3

This is for new builds.....
Think about it.... Are you saying that the 25 million homes in the UK must now have CU's that comply with Amendment 3....??

 

[westward10]

This is true but do not get bogged down by looking ahead, you are doing an EICR so state what you see. If the client wants remedial works after they have Received the Report then you discuss the pros and cons of a possible change.

 

[westward10]

This is true but do not get bogged down by looking ahead, you are doing an EICR so state what you see. If the client wants remedial works after they have Received the Report then you discuss the pros and cons of a possible change.

 

[Adam W]

Check out this best practice guide from 'Electrical Safety First'. I've highlighted a couple of points in case you can't be bothered to read the whole lot:

Code C3 (Improvement recommended)
This code should be used to indicate that, whilst an
observed deficiency is not considered to be a source
of immediate or potential danger, improvement
would contribute to a significant enhancement of
the safety of the electrical installation.

Code C3 (Improvement recommended)
Observations that would usually warrant a Code C3
classification include:
•
Absence of RCD protection for a socket-outlet
that is unlikely to supply portable or mobile
equipment for use outdoors, does not serve a
location containing a bath or shower, and the
use of which is otherwise not considered by the
inspector to result in potential danger.
(Note: Code C2 would apply if the circuit
supplied a socket-outlet in a location
containing a bath or shower in accordance
with Regulation 701.512.3)

 

[westward10]

Never read Best Practice Guides just use experience.

 

[sparksburnout]

Check out this best practice guide from 'Electrical Safety First'. I've highlighted a couple of points in case you can't be bothered to read the whole lot:

Is this standard edition or Landlords only copy?
(I'm gonna get Daz to bite sooner or later)

 

[Octopus]

This is for new builds.....

And rewires and refurbishments that include changes to the electrics ...

NB: 2% of 25 million homes is about 500 000 homes - are we building that many homes?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

the term 16th edition board was used to describe split load boards which had a single RCD to protect downstairs sockets.
Why they weren’t called 15th edition boards, I don’t know. The 15th edition had the same requirement for RCD protection to sockets as the 16th.
17th edition are just dual RCD boards.
Weird to assign editions to boards based on the number of RCDs they contain, considering there is no requirement to place an RCD in a board, in any of the editions.

 

[Spoon]

And rewires and refurbishments that include changes to the electrics ...

Thanks for the addition... Long day....

 

[Spoon]

NB: 2% of 25 million homes is about 500 000 homes - are we building that many homes?

That's why I put 'about 98%'... Not sure how many CU, to amendment 3, have been install in the 2 and a half years... A good figure I thought.. Most prob will be a bit more than 98% but it got my point across.

 

[Risteard]

Why do you want this mythical Edition on an EICR it has no relevance, consumer units are manufactured to British Standards and not Editions of the Wiring Regulations.

Precisely. It is how it is installed which will either comply or fail to comply with the Wiring Regulations.

 

[Risteard]

Never read Best Practice Guides just use experience.

I see people quoting the Best Practice Guide for EICRs too when discussing industrial/commercial inspections. It clearly states at the beginning of the Best Practice Guide that it is only aimed at domestic installations.

But it should always be remembered that these Best Practice Guides are only the opinion of their author(s). The inspector must come to his/her own conclusions.

 

[Adam W]

This is starting to sound like the old "there's no such thing as a part P qualification" argument (it's called the C&G 2393).

Manufacturers called split load boards "17th edition consumer units" because they were manufactured to comply with the 17th edition.
More recently they started marketing split load boards made out of steel as "Amendment 3 consumer units".
So not only are consumer units being described by the edition of BS7671, they're now being described by the amendment of that edition.

 

[Risteard]

This is starting to sound like the old "there's no such thing as a part P qualification" argument (it's called the C&G 2393).

Manufacturers called split load boards "17th edition consumer units" because they were manufactured to comply with the 17th edition.
More recently they started marketing split load boards made out of steel as "Amendment 3 consumer units".
So not only are consumer units being described by the edition of BS7671, they're now being described by the amendment of that edition.

It's a wonder they didn't describe them as "Amendment 3 (delayed implementation)" DBs given that the new requirement was postponed for a year after the rest came in.

 

[Adam W]

It's a wonder they didn't describe them as "Amendment 3 (delayed implementation)" DBs given that the new requirement was postponed for a year after the rest came in.

I suppose it hasn't quite got the same ring to it.

 

[Risteard]

I suppose it hasn't quite got the same ring to it.

Perhaps not.

 

[DPG]

Is this standard edition or Landlords only copy?
(I'm gonna get Daz to bite sooner or later)

Twunt
Oh and there should be a possessive apostrophe in 'Landlords'.

 

[sparksburnout]

Twunt
Oh and there should be a possessive apostrophe in 'Landlords'.

Yeeeees possibly. You could argue it is aimed specifically at him but you maybe right that in that context it is possessive, good call.

 

[DPG]

Actually now I've read it again you are right. It's a plural in that context. I shall stand in the corner.

 

[satori]

This is starting to sound like the old "there's no such thing as a part P qualification" argument (it's called the C&G 2393).

Manufacturers called...

Manufacturers call their products all sorts of things 'new and improved', 'probably the best lager in the world', 'serves 4', 'gives you wings'. Manufacturers are not to be relied upon, they want to sell you stuff. It's up to the installer to know the regs and know whether, when installed, the part can comply with those regs. The manufacturer can't say a CU complies with BS-7671, they have no idea how some idiot is going to install it and negate all their hard design work.

 

[Adam W]

Manufacturers call their products all sorts of things 'new and improved', 'probably the best lager in the world', 'serves 4', 'gives you wings'. Manufacturers are not to be relied upon, they want to sell you stuff. It's up to the installer to know the regs and know whether, when installed, the part can comply with those regs. The manufacturer can't say a CU complies with BS-7671, they have no idea how some idiot is going to install it and negate all their hard design work.

Maybe not but if they made a consumer unit out of metal there's a much better chance of it complying with amendment 3 than if they made it out of plastic.