Why do commercial sparks bash house bashers?

[nicebutdim]

I'm not going to go for the trainee forum - they want to know what time i go for a dump in order to get access to it. Not really up for giving away personal info to a random online forum ?

Supposed to be a lot of help and useful information available in the trainee forum. I once looked at the access requirements and only remember that verification of college course was required, but could be wrong. It's not unreasonable that they'd want to restrict access to those who are genuinely engaged in training.

 

[Electrics]

They want full name, address and telephone number too. Which is fine, i just don't want to give that out to an online forum.

 

[telectrix]

They want full name, address and telephone number too. Which is fine, i just don't want to give that out to an online forum.

the info you give to dan is confidential.

 

[nicebutdim]

Have you looked at the forum privacy policy? I've no such concerns - especially given how thorough and compliant their cookie policy is.

 

[littlespark]

Us that have been here a while get to access the Electricians Arms... to talk about non public things... (a bit like the Masons i think)

Have to give Dan our credentials for that too

 

[DefyG]

most decent domestic sparks i know, they tend to go the extra mile.

Maybe because domestic sparks tend to be small companies or 'one man bands' that rely a lot more on their reputation for ongoing and repeat work?

 

[telectrix]

most decent domestic sparks i know, they tend to go the extra mile.

the rate at which all the pubs are being demolished/ refurbed into care homes, we all have to go the extra mile. at this rate we'll all evolve into camels.

 

[Petej999]

They guy who posted that comment is seeking access to the trainee forum, so I'm sure they've many years ahead to gain a better understanding about all aspects of the industry.

Certainly hope so Mate, good point though

 

[Dave OCD]

I've done a fair bit of Industrial and Commercial type work over the years but these days it's probably 90% Domestic. I do think that those who sneer and look down on domestic sparks in many cases wouldn't cope with that aspect of the trade or do the work particularly well if they had to.
There's an art to running in cables properly and neatly with minimal disruption or damage to the fabric of the property and you also need to be able to adapt to and overcome ever evolving snags as the work progresses at times. And with some customers you really need the patience of a saint.
It can also be exhausting, whereas although some Industrial work can involve heavy cables everything is fixed surface and easily accessible within reason. I also think that a lot of domestic work can be poorly executed and shoddy but a really good install doesn't stand out as everything is hidden with just accessories on the walls on show.

 

[ipf]

I've done a fair bit of Industrial and Commercial type work over the years but these days it's probably 90% Domestic. I do think that those who sneer and look down on domestic sparks in many cases wouldn't cope with that aspect of the trade or do the work particularly well if they had to.
There's an art to running in cables properly and neatly with minimal disruption or damage to the fabric of the property and you also need to be able to adapt to and overcome ever evolving snags as the work progresses at times. And with some customers you really need the patience of a saint.
It can also be exhausting, whereas although some Industrial work can involve heavy cables everything is fixed surface and easily accessible within reason. I also think that a lot of domestic work can be poorly executed and shoddy but a really good install doesn't stand out as everything is hidden with just accessories on the walls on show.

More so these days, yes. It all depends on the work and conditions, though. Industrial can be tough and much 'dirtier' than domestic.
As a contractor, I used to do work at a silver recovery plant, installation of new machines and services, as well as maintenance. Methods of recovery involved chemicals and the burning of x-ray plates. Never worked in worse condition, working on the burners...black as the ace of spades and absolutely shattered every night. Fault finding on breakdowns was a nightmare, everything covered in black dust and mostly in awkward spots behind the units......plus the almost unbearable heat, whilst masked up.

 

[Grant1987]

More so these days, yes. It all depends on the work and conditions, though. Industrial can be tough and much 'dirtier' than domestic.
As a contractor, I used to do work at a silver recovery plant, installation of new machines and services, as well as maintenance. Methods of recovery involved chemicals and the burning of x-ray plates. Never worked in worse condition, working on the burners...black as the ace of spades and absolutely shattered every night. Fault finding on breakdowns was a nightmare, everything covered in black dust and mostly in awkward spots behind the units......plus the almost unbearable heat, whilst masked up.

I’ve just read through all of these posts and I’m currently a domestic spark (house basher) insult that is. I went from commercial/industrial about 10 years ago and I was clueless at domestic and was taught how to install in the domestic environment I’ve never looked back since with work and £££ to be earned I’ve just done a 2 bed upstairs flat Rewire with my work colleague/friend and earned nice amount for 8 hours work. I then received a phone call from customer saying 2 of his neighbours want a Rewire from myself end of day money talks and this has been the case for past 10 years earnt significant amount more being domestic spark I’m comparison to commercial/industrial also I’ve had to sort out many faults of the com/ind spark could not find ?

 

[Grant1987]

I’ve just read through all of these posts and I’m currently a domestic spark (house basher) insult that is. I went from commercial/industrial about 10 years ago and I was clueless at domestic and was taught how to install in the domestic environment I’ve never looked back since with work and £££ to be earned I’ve just done a 2 bed upstairs flat Rewire with my work colleague/friend and earned nice amount for 8 hours work. I then received a phone call from customer saying 2 of his neighbours want a Rewire from myself end of day money talks and this has been the case for past 10 years earnt significant amount more being domestic spark I’m comparison to commercial/industrial also I’ve had to sort out many faults of the com/ind spark could not find ?

I’ve also contacted tomorrow’s job earlier on to tell them I’m not in work tomorrow only simple jobs of replacing couple lights and pre surveying couple of rewires due to my good days work today I’m relaxing with Jack Daniels and cola. Unlike the com/industrial sparks who are setting their alarm for 6am to ensure they are on time to get dirty and install 21mtrs of tray and walk about 2k during the day

 

[LukeD]

Domestic all the way.Just work for rich people .

 

[littlespark]

I would love to see some more industrial work, but there just isn’t the opportunity around here. Jobs would instantly go to the bigger companies.

Domestic or industrial. One is not better than the other, and as they say- variety is the spice of life.

Now agricultural. You can shove that.

Knee deep in the stinky brown stuff.. chickens pecking at your tools and the customers thoughts of health and safety is putting on a pair of socks with no holes.

 

[SparkySy]

What nooo! You can't bash the agricultural sparks! That is my main business, and I love it more than most seem to! I like the cows scratching on my MEWP making it bounce around! And being knee deep in ----! Or itchy barley in your boots/overalls. I would rather be outside than stuck in a building. And the kit I get to play on is much more fun than lifting floorboards and trying not to wreck Mrs Miggins new rug/carpet/wallpaper. Most weeks I get to play on at least a digger, telehandler or MEWP and sometimes a tractor! Yeah ok I do some domestic but only the jobs that I want to do or as part of my agricultural business.
As I have said before this is such a wide and varied industry, it's good to see as much of it as you can until you find the bit you like best!
Sy

 

[Grant1987]

What nooo! You can't bash the agricultural sparks! That is my main business, and I love it more than most seem to! I like the cows scratching on my MEWP making it bounce around! And being knee deep in ----! Or itchy barley in your boots/overalls. I would rather be outside than stuck in a building. And the kit I get to play on is much more fun than lifting floorboards and trying not to wreck Mrs Miggins new rug/carpet/wallpaper. Most weeks I get to play on at least a digger, telehandler or MEWP and sometimes a tractor! Yeah ok I do some domestic but only the jobs that I want to do or as part of my agricultural business.
As I have said before this is such a wide and varied industry, it's good to see as much of it as you can until you find the bit you like best!
Sy

I totally respect your post I was just aiming my post at the derogatory posts of sparks saying that domestic sparks are of little value we all carry out the same job and same goal. I also (used) to enjoy getting dirty and playing with the big boy toys cherry picker, boom, scissor lift but I also enjoy the domestic aspect so to all the newcomers of the industry try it all gain the experience and do what you enjoy. ?

 

[littlespark]

My anti- agriculture was of course tongue in cheek. Just a little Monday comedy.

I did everything as an apprentice. Just because of my rural location…. It was Mrs miggins on a Monday, Ten thousand chickens on a Tuesday… Windy hillside… well, you get my drift.


I think the “housebashing” isn’t exclusive to sparks. Every trade is pressured to be in and out as quick as you can…. Mistakes get picked up later.
It doesn’t make you a housebasher, it’s just the work is described as bashing.

 

[SparkySy]

Totally, mine was meant in jest somewhat! I do cover a broad range within the industry, including house bashing! Each to their own, I know a lot of sparks that hate ag work but equally I know many that hate domestic, everyone is different and will find their place in the industry, which is lucky really otherwise we would be in a right pickle!!
Much respect to everyone in our industry whichever sector they are in!

 

[Petej999]

My anti- agriculture was of course tongue in cheek. Just a little Monday comedy.

I did everything as an apprentice. Just because of my rural location…. It was Mrs miggins on a Monday, Ten thousand chickens on a Tuesday… Windy hillside… well, you get my drift.


I think the “housebashing” isn’t exclusive to sparks. Every trade is pressured to be in and out as quick as you can…. Mistakes get picked up later.
It doesn’t make you a housebasher, it’s just the work is described as bashing.

There are many people who call themselves Sparks, when all they have done is house bashing after doing a short course.

 

[Intoelectrics]

Cause house bashers aren't normally sparks. They are pretend sparks. No Qualifications except they can get it passed off by a spark. Checked and tested. Bring a house basher to an industrial job. Like tray and basket and see how they fair. What about doing a three phase board.
I bet if a piece of unistrut hit they wouldn't know what it was.

This is not true! not all "house bashers" are the short course bodge it and scarper type!

I know good electricians who can only do commercial/industrial and are clueless when it comes to domestic and vice versa. A good all round domestic sparky has to do a fair bit of problem solving, fault finding and it can be hard graft if the house is occupied or an old building.

Yeah you may get the sparky who does nothing but new builds for housing companies, much like you get some sparkies that only do maintenance on commercial/industrial properties.

There are just levels of skill and capability, where as Tel mentioned, some folk have a better aptitude for certain aspects than others.

Either way, a good tradesperson takes pride in their work, is conscientious and leaves a job tidy, safe and (hopefully) with a satisfied customer.

 

[Grant1987]

There are many people who call themselves Sparks, when all they have done is house bashing after doing a short course.

There are many people who call themselves sparks. When all they have done is cut a few bits of metal and threaded a few nuts after being thrown on site by doing naff all.

 

[7029 dave]

I took a job on in a hospital just qualified back in the early 80's, the boss said to me you are taking this job on (yep no problem), all metal conduit work.
Found out the job was given to me because a much older experienced spark (on more money than me) could not do conduit work.
Dont tell me its only labourers work like someone once told me on here.

 

[ipf]

There are many people who call themselves Sparks, when all they have done is house bashing after doing a short course.

There are many people who call themselves sparks. When all they have done is cut a few bits of metal and threaded a few nuts after being thrown on site by doing naff all.

We know, in both cases....but it's a percentage not ALL of them.
Don't tar all with the same brush just because you come across crap work.

Standards have dropped in general, we should all know that, but fully qualified electricians, no matter what their field, usually know their onions......and should be respected for doing so.

 

[ipf]

I took a job on in a hospital just qualified back in the early 80's, the boss said to me you are taking this job on (yep no problem), all metal conduit work.
Found out the job was given to me because a much older experienced spark (on more money than me) could not do conduit work.
Dont tell me its only labourers work like someone once told me on here.

Complicated conduit can be an art work, with a hell of a lot of skill involved.

Some dunces still think 'sets' are for badgers and 'dog legs' for ...er.?...dogs? Elbows' at every 90, what a mess!

They have their occasional uses but in most cases the best use for an 'elbow' is a heavy nudge in the ribs.

 

[7029 dave]

Complicated conduit can be an art work, with a hell of a lot of skill involved.

Some dunces still think 'sets' are for badgers and 'dog legs' for ...er.?...dogs? Elbows' at every 90, what a mess!

They have their occasional uses but in most cases the best use for an 'elbow' is a heavy nudge in the ribs.

Very true lol the last bit was funny

 

[SparkySy]

I had a similar experience with an older spark when I was coming up through the ranks of a small firm, we were on a library and art Museum, all trunking and conduit very nice job! Anyway it turned out he could not bend tube for love nor money, he even struggled with marking it out correctly, but was great at the trunking work! I ended up doing the conduit work and he did all the trunking in the end!

 

[ipf]

I had a similar experience with an older spark when I was coming up through the ranks of a small firm, we were on a library and art Museum, all trunking and conduit very nice job! Anyway it turned out he could not bend tube for love nor money, he even struggled with marking it out correctly, but was great at the trunking work! I ended up doing the conduit work and he did all the trunking in the end!

Somebody else do the wiring? ??

 

[SparkySy]

Yeah a real electrician ?

 

[ipf]

Once left an apprentice to fix a conduit for a sensor in a school boiler house, 2 saddles up a wall and 3 across the ceiling. Got back about 3 hrs later to find it at a 10 degree angle fixed to the ceiling with the outside 2 saddles, the middle one fixed about 1'' to one side of the tube. I CAN laugh NOW!?
He was in the midst of taking it out, I must admit.

 

[Petej999]

I took a job on in a hospital just qualified back in the early 80's, the boss said to me you are taking this job on (yep no problem), all metal conduit work.
Found out the job was given to me because a much older experienced spark (on more money than me) could not do conduit work.
Dont tell me its only labourers work like someone once told me on here.

I took a job with a large builder in my home town Bath, most if not all of the so called Electricians on site were either labourers or Apprentices near the end of their time, it showed up when we had to wire the carpark lighting with SWA NON OF THEN KNEW HOW TO TERMINATE, got a rollicking for taking the time to show them how it was done, this was in the mid 70s got the Spanish Archer for the job going over time left and continued working as a maintenance Spark.

 

[timhoward]

Once left an apprentice to fix a conduit for a sensor in a school boiler house, 2 saddles up a wall and 3 across the ceiling. Got back about 3 hrs later to find it at a 10 degree angle fixed to the ceiling with the outside 2 saddles, the middle one fixed about 1'' to one side of the tube. I CAN laugh NOW!?
He was in the midst of taking it out, I must admit.

It sounds like he almost did the below by accident!

 

[Petej999]

I've just started an apprenticeship with a decent sized firm (I got taken on full time - hooray!) and was thinking this week about how a lot of people, mostly online, turn their nose up at people who do domestic work.

I was wondering why, since at my work everybody seems to do the bare minimum but with most decent domestic sparks i know, they tend to go the extra mile.

Is there a difference in quality of workmanship simply because people want to do a better job for their own customers as opposed to commercial sparks who are simply getting the job done and aren't personally responsible for the final job?

Just seems to be a lot more 'just get it done' mentality on the commercial side.

Another thing i noticed is hardly anyone has the correct tools for the job and the tools they do have are mashed up.

So people will be using blunt cutters where the tip of one side has shattered off, or drivers with half the shaft insulation hanging off. Then there are other things which not bad but just 'doing it the hard way' like cutting PVC conduit with a hack saw having 3m of it flapping about instead of just buying a £10 pipe cutter, or using hammer and chisel/pad saw to cut out for back boxes where the wall is double skinned chipboard/plasterboard because nobody has a multi tool. Putting up conduit? Simply measure out from some maybe straight maybe wonky reference point and use your 6 inch torpedo level to get it right, instead of simply using a proper spirit level, making the job ten times easier.

When in the domestic setting it seems most people have the basic tools that make life easier.

Is it simply a case of 'not my job, don't care that much' on site compared with running private jobs directly in people's homes?

I don't think it's a case of turning up noses Mate, most house bashers are les skilled , not their fault just a case of the pressure of demand, you have slung the wiring in for one new build do the rest of the site with your eyes shut, I did it for a couple of years, not for never again, money was carp as were the conditions, working in those conditions did my whole body no favours whatsoever, basically crippled now, bad back knees etc is it worth it NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Electrics]

It sounds like he almost did the below by accident!
View attachment 90254

'modern art'

 

[Grant1987]

It sounds like he almost did the below by accident!
View attachment 90254

If I seen that I would call 999. My comments were derogatory to the metal munching industry which I do still enjoy just took offence to the house bashers which I’m a member of these days. We are a divisive industry but like I said previously all have the same goal I’ll upload photos tomorrow of my shed all galv conduit and trunking work of art it is. All trainees on here do it all and enjoy the job like I do, infact we all do that’s why we offer our opinions/advice on here ?

 

[Grant1987]

I don't think it's a case of turning up noses Mate, most house bashers are les skilled , not their fault just a case of the pressure of demand, you have slung the wiring in for one new build do the rest of the site with your eyes shut, I did it for a couple of years, not for never again, money was carp as were the conditions, working in those conditions did my whole body no favours whatsoever, basically crippled now, bad back knees etc is it worth it NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

House bashers less skilled shame on you!!!

 

[Grant1987]

House bashers less skilled shame on you!!!

Money crap? Earn more now than I ever have. Built the trust and custom of domestic properties and havnt looked back since #housebasher

 

[Electrics]

Money crap? Earn more now than I ever have. Built the trust and custom of domestic properties and havnt looked back since #housebasher

Yeah i mean on most commercial jobs you're gonna be agency, subbying or working cards in for a contractor. Pay is lousy on most run of the mill jobs. Our lads start on £15.80 an hour rising to £16.50 an hour. £34k a year before tax and overheads. That's crap.

 

[Mikegh]

They do and it's not justified considering how technical the domestic work has got

I've seen the industrial electricians struggle with rcds a few times

 

[Intoelectrics]

They do and it's not justified considering how technical the domestic work has got

I've seen the industrial electricians struggle with rcds a few times

I agree, I don't think we should tar everyone with the same brush. We should applaud and support our industry and the people within it in all aspects of the job! A skilled electrician is a skilled tradesperson regardless of whether its domestic, commercial, industrial or any other...

The crux of the matter is in the training and experience, in my opinion, these days there is not enough of either implemented before a person earns the title of "Electrician".

Unfortunately "house bashing" is one area where a less experienced and poorly learned person can get away with shoddy work or corner cutting because most is hidden and the work is mostly self regulated. So it's natural that a dodgy tradesperson will aim for work where they can earn decent money, be less likely to exposure without the worry of retribution. These people create a stigma around domestic work which tars the proper electricians with the same brush. Its unfair and unjustified, so the last thing we want is slander within our own group.

 

[Grant1987]

I would have to disagree there? Every Commercial & Industrial Job requires testing and Certificates handing in, in-fact the testing is more involved in an industrial/commercial environment, I frequently do work in schools and no stone goes unturned & certificates are allways handed in. Test & Inspecting factories can be a complex & lengthy procedure. Im not knocking Domestic Electricians at all, Ive seen some tremendously skilled ones who have completed rewires in occupied houses and got cables only where i could dream! With minimal disturbances to residents LOLS.

I’m reading this post back again and I can assure you that testing on the commercial/industrial side is not any more different as the domestic I won’t go into too much detail but sampling is a common theme with so many DB’s In com/ind industry so it’s a rotational testing theme. As for leaving no stone unturned do me a favour! ?‍ It’s a Lengthy and complex procedure it’s the same process with single phase in domestic

 

[ipf]

Regarding electricians in general, unless they have the experience and knowledge, it's each to their own. It baffles me how 'qualified' people, with little experience in one sphere, think they're 'god's gift' and throw themselves into things they have no idea about.

 

[littlespark]

There is an old adage that some people know that they know stuff..... some don't know that they know, and others know that they don't know...

However.... those that don't know they don't know are by far the worst.



You know?

 

[ipf]

There is an old adage that some people know that they know stuff..... some don't know that they know, and others know that they don't know...

However.... those that don't know they don't know are by far the worst.



You know?

Oh for a bit of knowledge, said the man......

 

[Petej999]

They do and it's not justified considering how technical the domestic work has got

I've seen the industrial electricians struggle with rcds a few times

It maybe that during the building boom, many people picked up the point that if they ;earnt a little bit of electrical knowledge they could quite simply wire a new build house, hence the phrase "!house basher" no training or not much anyhow.
After all one new house is much the same as the next one. Be honest not much to it is there? "

 

[Petej999]

It maybe that during the building boom, many people picked up the point that if they ;earnt a little bit of electrical knowledge they could quite simply wire a new build house, hence the phrase "!house basher" no training or not much anyhow.
After all one new house is much the same as the next one. Be honest not much to it is there? "

It maybe that during the building boom, many people picked up the point that if they ;earnt a little bit of electrical knowledge they could quite simply wire a new build house, hence the phrase "!house basher" no training or not much anyhow.
After all one new house is much the same as the next one. Be honest not much to it is there? "

It maybe that during the building boom, many people picked up the point that if they ;earnt a little bit of electrical knowledge they could quite simply wire a new build house, hence the phrase "!house basher" no training or not much anyhow.
After all one new house is much the same as the next one. Be honest not much to it is there? "

Whats the answer then??? if you have slung the wiring in one new build no difference than the last one or the next, after all you can become a DI in a few weeks if you choose the right course

 

[Dave OCD]

I think it's fair to say that 30 or even 20 years ago wiring an average new build house was very straightforward, in my early 20s I could do a 1st fix, properly too in a good day. [Without any chasing].
But there's so much more in a current new build, probably 3-4 times as many sockets for a start, multiple lights where there would have been one in kitchens, utility rooms etc as well as things like heat pumps, electric underfloor heating and then data and alarm wiring etc etc. And the modern construction methods can be a pain where you have things like triple joists to get through plus crazy amounts of insulation everywhere and every other 'trade' seems to be on a mission to make life awkward for everyone else. So I still say that to do it right isn't as easy as many think.

 

[Grant1987]

Whats the answer then??? if you have slung the wiring in one new build no difference than the last one or the next, after all you can become a DI in a few weeks if you choose the right course

I think you clearly have a lack of respect for the domestic side of electrics I’m not going into too much detail now because the AJ fight is almost on but you need a reality check my friend

 

[ipf]

There is an old adage that some people know that they know stuff..... some don't know that they know, and others know that they don't know.

However.... those that don't know they don't know are by far the worst.

I'd go with that, in general.
However, those that know they don't know and still go ahead are the most foolish and devious.

 

[Petej999]

I think you clearly have a lack of respect for the domestic side of electrics I’m not going into too much detail now because the AJ fight is almost on but you need a reality check my friend

Not at all Mate, I had 4/5 years on housing projects looking after and putting right sub standard work by substandard Sparks mostly Apprentices in thier las couple of years, or chancers who thought they were Electricians because they could sling Twin and cpc about with gay abandon, believe me Mate, new labour coming in as the jobs progressed I saw it all during those years, I have every respect for those that do domestic, it's the chancers that give domestic Guys a bad rep, sometimes the truth hurts.
I had the chance to get out of the domestic side and it proved to be the right move. Oh by the way I had my reality check eary on in my long career, went back to college, because during my time of day release there where those that spoilt the learning curve for the many pooh pooing the Science side of things," what do I need this stuff for when all I do is work on a building site day in day out, I worked with some good Domestic guys as well, not many but some as I say.
When you work with some lads that couldn't do a basic insulation test it does make you wonder what the trade was/is coming to, to answer your point that I have a lack of respect for Domestic Sparks, that's far from the truth.

 

[Electrics]

I think it's fair to say that 30 or even 20 years ago wiring an average new build house was very straightforward, in my early 20s I could do a 1st fix, properly too in a good day. [Without any chasing].
But there's so much more in a current new build, probably 3-4 times as many sockets for a start, multiple lights where there would have been one in kitchens, utility rooms etc as well as things like heat pumps, electric underfloor heating and then data and alarm wiring etc etc. And the modern construction methods can be a pain where you have things like triple joists to get through plus crazy amounts of insulation everywhere and every other 'trade' seems to be on a mission to make life awkward for everyone else. So I still say that to do it right isn't as easy as many think.

Most of your work isn't going to be in new builds though.