1950's fusebox.

[rattlehead85]

Doing an EICR on a church at the moment and found this board serving some lighting circuits within the chapels all wired in tinned copper imperial singles run through conduit used as cpc. The switch fuse feeding this board is located remotely at the intake position within another area of the church using an old style 30amp rewireable with porcelaine carrier. I have given this board a C3 departure as it has no local means of isolation either within the board or nearby and no labeling or indication of isolation point. Have i made the right observation on this or have i misinterpreted the regs here?

 

[Fin170]

Sounds a good shout to me, those old MEM metal boards are quality bits of kit too

 

[Geordie Spark]

Sounds a good shout to me, those old MEM metal boards are quality bits of kit too

Aye well ................. they weren't made in China, Malaysia or India. They were made in Great Britain when Britain WAS Great and we actually MADE things and we made them well !!

 

[timo1]

I had to remove one from a rewire that I did last year, it was a thing of beauty. I wanted to keep it and make it into a spice rack, but I had to cut it out in the end. Quite often when I replace an old metal clad wylex box with a modern version with all the day glo stickers, I can't help but feel a little sad.

 

[Fin170]

I've been going through hundreds of various 50's&60s metal fittings in a decomisioning job and most of it is as good the day it went in. Everything wired in pyro or bare SWA, huge buzz bars connected to everything, no expenses spared...meanwhile around the front of the building is a modern metal mem board which has been in a few years and has rusted to nothing

 

[Geordie Spark]

I had to remove one from a rewire that I did last year, it was a thing of beauty. I wanted to keep it and make it into a spice rack, but I had to cut it out in the end. Quite often when I replace an old metal clad wylex box with a modern version with all the day glo stickers, I can't help but feel a little sad.

Did you notice the quality of the terminal screws - how much better they fit in the tapped holes in the busbars and how the heads are properly formed so the screwdriver fits nicely?

Compare them to the Wylex / Crabtree / MK etc shyte and you'll soon understand why we keep reading of CUs overheating & catching fire.

The "new" stuff have screws which in my view as a time-served Precision Engineer are not fit for purpose and there's not enough "meat" in the bus bar to get sufficient thread for the screws in them and this is why they work loose.

I believe the thickness of the part of the bus bar that has been drilled and tapped should be at least equal to the diameter of the screw plus a bit more, but they don't seem to be !!

You don't need fancy "Torque Screwdrivers" - just properly made bits of kit.

 

[Andy78]

I was reading an ad for a Wera torque driver today. It boasted "adjust by feel and sight, no additional tools needed" I thought, that's the same as a normal driver then, lol.

 

[oldtimer]

Don't know if you can C3 it as it was up to standard when it was installed

 

[rattlehead85]

I do know when carrying out EICR you have to inspect and observe against current 17th edition regulations and not what went before. I consider it to only be a code 3 as it doesn't pose urgent attention or place the installation or user in any immediate danger. What does warrant a code 1 though is the lack of barriers or shields to the neutral bar as the door in the photo is openable without the use of a tool or key leaving the terminals open to direct contact.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I do know when carrying out EICR you have to inspect and observe against current 17th edition regulations and not what went before. I consider it to only be a code 3 as it doesn't pose urgent attention or place the installation or user in any immediate danger. What does warrant a code 1 though is the lack of barriers or shields to the neutral bar as the door in the photo is openable without the use of a tool or key leaving the terminals open to direct contact.

Aye well, in the days when that was made, we were credited with having common sense and knowing where and how to apply it and by doing just that we knew not to stick our pinkies on the bright shiny bits !!

RIP Common Sense ... it was a privilege to have known you.

 

[MarkieSparkie]

Did you notice the quality of the terminal screws - how much better they fit in the tapped holes in the busbars and how the heads are properly formed so the screwdriver fits nicely?

Compare them to the Wylex / Crabtree / MK etc shyte and you'll soon understand why we keep reading of CUs overheating & catching fire.

The "new" stuff have screws which in my view as a time-served Precision Engineer are not fit for purpose and there's not enough "meat" in the bus bar to get sufficient thread for the screws in them and this is why they work loose.

I believe the thickness of the part of the bus bar that has been drilled and tapped should be at least equal to the diameter of the screw plus a bit more, but they don't seem to be !!

You don't need fancy "Torque Screwdrivers" - just properly made bits of kit.

I totally agree mate, not only were the screws and threads of better quality, but most of the terminals were double screw types as well.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I totally agree mate, not only were the screws and threads of better quality, but most of the terminals were double screw types as well.

Yes!! ............. you're right - I had forgotten about that !!

 

[Engineer54]

Aye well ................. they weren't made in China, Malaysia or India. They were made in Great Britain when Britain WAS Great and we actually MADE things and we made them well !!

Well made they may have been, but the then completely new Wylex consumer Units completely wiped the floor of them as far as domestic and light commercial fuse boards went!! .... Main Switch, enclosed rewirable fuse carriers, Available in various way numbers, (and even dual feed configurations), Interchangeable fuse bases for 5, 15, 20, 30A, convertible to HRC fuse carriers (MCB's came much later), complete with standard earth bar, available in metalclad, Bakelite (later plastic) open back wood frame. etc etc... lol!! Also British designed, and British made!!

Unfortunately MEM and the others never really had anything to better the Wylex rewireable CU's, it wasn't until the MCB and RCD CU's took off, around 30+ years later, that Wylex had any real competition in the domestic CU arena!!

 

[7029 dave]

you cant beat a wylex

 

[Geordie Spark]

you cant beat a wylex

The old ones yes. The new ones are a different kettle of horses though - same as Crabtree and the rest with badly formed screw heads with pi$$y slack threads and not enough meat on the bus bar to make a decent tapped hole.

Then there's the matter of the breakers going skew-wiff when you tighten them onto the bus bar. and the subsequent problem in getting the cover on.

Apart from that they're fine!!

 

[Fin170]

you cant beat a wylex

Accept for when you do see a old domestic Bill or mem board they are much better built (I'm guessing they were more expensive back in the day), take OPs for example, I've never found a old wylex to hold up anywhere near as nicely


And in modern times? Anything other than proteus I'd take over a new wylex

 

[7029 dave]

Accept for when you do see a old domestic Bill or mem board they are much better built (I'm guessing they were more expensive back in the day), take OPs for example, I've never found a old wylex to hold up anywhere near as nicely


And in modern times? Anything other than proteus I'd take over a new wylex

yes agree mem were a good board and bill .Dorman smith on the industrial front good too.

 

[Engineer54]

Accept for when you do see a old domestic Bill or mem board they are much better built (I'm guessing they were more expensive back in the day), take OPs for example, I've never found a old wylex to hold up anywhere near as nicely


And in modern times? Anything other than proteus I'd take over a new wylex

You must be joking!! Well made, ...Yes, more expensive, not sure, but probable as those old fuse boxes needed a separate supply switchfuse. For a start most of those ceramic fuse boards were replaced by the old Wylex CU's out of necessity because the fuse holders were of a fixed rating and no longer served a useful purpose, as power circuit demands increased over the years!! They were also constructed primarily for conduited wiring, not for T&E...

As for longevity, i've seen, as well as i'm sure many other here have, original metalclad Wylex CU's still in pristine condition.

The Wylex CU was, what amounted to a revolution in circuit control and protection when they first hit the market, and dominated that market right up until modern times!! And why virtually every existing domestic (and small/light commercial installations) that hasn't had it's electrical installation updated/modernised will STILL have a Wylex CU and still working perfectly, whether converted to HRC fuses, MCB's or still having 3036 rewirable fuses!!


Fully agree with you on their modern CU offerings!! Probably the company has been taken over by the accountants, like so many other formally respected well known companies.....

 

[johnboy6083]

At the water company sites I work on, a lot of the gear is old English Electric or Bill switchgear.
it is in perfect condition, and I much prefer it over any modern gear I fit.
unfortunately, we have had drive by EICRs done, and the report always mentions that the gear is unfit for continued use, due to as asbestos.
now from what I'm aware, LUL have an awful lot of old gear, and they got by the asbestos issue by spraying it with a type of varnish.
Asbestos won't hurt anyone if it is still solid and sealed.

 

[Engineer54]

At the water company sites I work on, a lot of the gear is old English Electric or Bill switchgear.
it is in perfect condition, and I much prefer it over any modern gear I fit.
unfortunately, we have had drive by EICRs done, and the report always mentions that the gear is unfit for continued use, due to as asbestos.
now from what I'm aware, LUL have an awful lot of old gear, and they got by the asbestos issue by spraying it with a type of varnish.
Asbestos won't hurt anyone if it is still solid and sealed.

Or you could just replace the old asbestos strip with new. That was one of my shutdown jobs as an apprentice, went round with about 3 or 4 different sized rolls of white asbestos strip, to suit the fuse holder size's. Probably won't be asbestos now, but a substitute material... When you think about it and listen to all the scaremongering that goes on about the old white asbestos flash suppression strips, i should be well and truly long gone by now!!