A quick check on if replacement CU is required.

[Adrian Haslett]

I had a new extension done recently and the extension electrics have been added to the ring main of the downstairs sockets etc accordingly. I am being told though the work can not be signed of unless the plastic CU fitted only 3 years back is changed for a Metal one following Jan 2016 regs. Their are no new connections to the CU as part of the extension, so can someone confirm this is correct as it seems its an additional £250 Supply and fit for this.


Thanks

 

[Leesparkykent]

No its not correct that the consumer unit has to be upgraded. As long as there is an RCD protecting the circuit, the circuit tests out fine and earthing and bonding are up to scratch then the jobs a goodun.

Take a look at the FAQ's of this link.
Consumer units: a brief overview - IET Electrical - http://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/59/consumer-units/index.cfm

 

[Adrian Haslett]

I thought it sounded strange. Its only a 3 year old double RCD CU, the extension has simply added 6 double plugs into the downstairs ring and 4 lights into the downstairs radial lighting circuit. I was quoted £125 inspect, sign off on top of the work that had been done but when CU was seen, advised this needed to be metal and theirefor bill would be £350 all in. I have used the electrician before and like him and sent customers his way. But just something sounded wrong about this.

 

[davesparks]

replacing the CU is not necessary.

 

[stummish]

Unfortunately he either doesn't understand the requirement of the regs (hopefully, as he can learn) or is trying to make money fixing a problem that doesn't exist (shamefully!)

 

[Octopus]

Unfortunately you are being taken for a ride

 

[westward10]

Gone.

 

[Ian1981]

I had a new extension done recently and the extension electrics have been added to the ring main of the downstairs sockets etc accordingly. I am being told though the work can not be signed of unless the plastic CU fitted only 3 years back is changed for a Metal one following Jan 2016 regs. Their are no new connections to the CU as part of the extension, so can someone confirm this is correct as it seems its an additional £250 Supply and fit for this.


Thanks

It could be that the electrician generally believes that he is correct and you must have a metal cu end of.
If that's the case you need to educate him

 

[westward10]

Metal CUs there is nothing difficult or mysterious about it but for some it is mind bending.

 

[7029 dave]

Maybe fishing for more work.?

 

[ruston]

If he has just added to existing circuits it is arguable that it is notifiable.

 

[snowhead]

Who did the work in the extension?
If they thought it needed a new C.U then they should have said when they quoted before work started.

How come they suddenly noticed the plastic C.U?

It would appear someone has added to the ring and now someone else is being asked (paid ) to sign it off to satisfy B.C?

 

[Flanders]

He should also not be charging an extra £125 to test ,that should of been part of the original job unless that was just the break down of the quote , All new electrical work has to be tested before its put into service . Also agree with other no need to change CU

 

[Adrian Haslett]

Hello.

I hired a builder, the cost of the build included everything including electrics. The building work was fine but I was not happy with the electrics, i.e missing grommets, no sleeving on earths, no earth to back box etc. The builder was not an electrician but said his mate was and would sign it off. That never happened. I fixed the issues, as I have some experience from what my father showed me. I called in an electrician I had used before and trusted to sign it off for BC. He came to see, said the electrics were fine, I was correct to sort earthing etc out but only issue as could not sign it off as since Jan 2016 Metal CU was required. So this is full story. I like the electrician, I did not want to make it sound like he did work and then trying to get extra bucks at end. Builder was paid to do job and failed. BC wont sign off without Cert, so I had to call in the only electrician I have ever used. I assume though all this makes no difference as a Metal Box is not required.

I think the initial £125 for inspect/test sign off was fair. It was only the box I am CU I am questioning.

Hope this helps.

 

[telectrix]

agree with others. if the electrician was installing a new CU it would have to be metal to comply with amd.3 (2015), butr there's no requirement to replace a perfectly good plastic CU.

 

[SparkyChick]

To be brutally honest, your mate can't really sign it off as a third party certifier because I'm guessing he didn't see it at first fix stage to confirm everything was kosher with the installation work?

Or is it that building control are wanting an EICR for a regularisation process rather than an EIC?

Edit:-

What I mean by the opening paragraph is... I wouldn't be willing to sign it off using an EIC as a third party certifier... is he?

 

[R G]

To be fair , the electrician you have is aware that he shouldn't be issuing an Installation Cert and as I would do is just carry out an EICR , because he hasn't designed and installed any of the work , just simply testing it only , so in a round about what is suggesting a replacement CU as a way of issuing an Installation Cert to satisfy yourself and BC ...

 

[Adrian Haslett]

Hello

As i am a bit hot i.e carefull on electrics and watching my Dad for years. I noted every part of what happened and corrected when wrong i.e the builder tried to connect to both sides of the existing house sockets which would have created a figure eight double ring or whatever you would call it, as i had already noted both sides when taken from plug were still live. I mentioned this and said take one set of wires from one plug and connect to that for extension leaving other set attached to socket and then bring the extension loop back to that socket, theirfor extending ring correctly. I did this part as he disagreed but electrician confirmed this is 100% correct way. I also put blanking plates whereever theirs a join etc. So electrics can be checked easly. I beleive this is why electrician having seen all this is happy to certify but saying i need a metal CU. If builder had done what i paid, no issues. But i was left in the mess and trying to correct as last part BC want to see on their computers.

Hope this helps.

 

[Toneyz]

For what you have said although done correctly you have undertaken small part of installation. As Sparkychick posted this installation SHOULD have been tested before energised and put into service therefore if done could have been incorporated into the builders building control . Your electrician as said can only do a EICR based upon BS7671 Amd 3 and therefore has ADVISED that the consumer unit does not comply with this as it is not of metal construction.

 

[7029 dave]

#11 I am in agreement, why would you need to notify to BC, if additions to existing circuits.? It's not a new circuit or in any special location.

 

[Toneyz]

#11 I am in agreement, why would you need to notify to BC, if additions to existing circuits.? It's not a new circuit or in any special location.

However it still should have been tested.

 

[7029 dave]

However it still should have been tested.

Yes that goes without saying.

 

[ruston]

Are BC aware of the extent of the electrical work?
If so why are they asking for a sign off .

 

[snowhead]

The simplest way is to agree to the work, get the paperwork and satisfy B.C.

The cheaper, longer and possibly impossible way would be to argue with B.C that it's not a new circuit and therefore doesn't need notifying.
To do that you'd need a report from an Electrician confirming the situation.
And you still might not satisfy B.C

Is it Local authority B.C or a private Approved B.C Inspector?

 

[ruston]

Sometimes discretion is the better part of valour, and at least if you sell up your house , it is up to current standards .
Plus you have learned a very valuable lesson.

 

[Deleted account]

It is an alteration to an existing circuit that's not in a special location so a simple minor works cert shown to building control would be adequate, but I wouldn't cert anyone else's work off.

As mentioned earlier an electrical installation condition report is all I would do.

As for new metal clad 3rd amendment. It's partly down to the individual sparky, but There is no way I would change a cu that is only 3 years old unless I had good reason.

 

[ruston]

I agree , but I think it is the builder who has done the ' electrical alterations'.

 

[Adrian Haslett]

Its local authority BC. Basically i withheld the final intallment of £1800, gone down to £1500 as he did not finish plumbing i.e left me with no waste downstairs so no toilet, bath etc working. I told builder he would get the £1500 when BC are happy and they want sign off for extension electrical work. Any cost would come from the £1500. I dont think he would argue about £125 but if I remove £350. All the arguments will start again. Etc. I am already getting horrible expansion noises from the flat GRP roof, which i cannot see the builder ever sorting. So could end up costing me even more money. I think this is a tough one. Officially it sounds like i dont need metal box. But to get sign off i may have to bite my lip ?. Does £350 sound ok for inspection/testing of extension wiring and new CU ?. I am aware a CU is only around £80 but so about £145 labour for exchanging it seems. I expect thats a fair price ?.

 

[telectrix]

Does £350 sound ok for inspection/testing of extension wiring and new CU ?. I am aware a CU is only around £80 but so about £145 labour for exchanging it seems. I expect thats a fair price ?.

that is a fair price. a CU replacement, including testing, is a full day's work, with about an hour or 2 on top filling in the cert.

 

[mache]

If its supply, fit, test and notify of the new CU sounds reasonable to be fair to your electrician and you get what you need and he clearly feels that he's covered at the end of the day.

 

[Deleted account]

Personally I think it's quite cheap. I charge £450 minimum for cu swap.

I also think it's quite expensive if it doesn't need to be done.

I really think you should consider getting another sparky in to see what he is willing to do. Maybe he will be prepared not to change cu and do a condition report(eicr).

I've done a condition report for building control before in order to get building works signed off for a customers extension. This customer also had difficulties with there builder. This is work I did not carry out so was not willing to certificate a minor works or eir.

I found the installation to be up to current standards as far as what I could visually see and disconnection times where achievable. I reported this and it was accepted by Building control.

It's worth mentioning the existing cu was plastic. I didn't even mention it in the report as it has no code due to it being to current regs when fitted and conforms to all current regs regarding rcd's and disconnection times.

 

[westward10]

It is an alteration to an existing circuit that's not in a special location so a simple minor works cert shown to building control would be adequate, but I wouldn't cert anyone else's work off.

As mentioned earlier an electrical installation condition report is all I would do.

As for new metal clad 3rd amendment. It's partly down to the individual sparky, but There is no way I would change a cu that is only 3 years old unless I had good reason.

Unless it was Proteus or Chint

 

[telectrix]

nowt wrong with chint. i've got several installed , been in a few years. no probs.

 

[The Ghost]

I think the CU is a red herring in the matters above. It does not need changing based on your statements. You need the work done signed off with a MEIWC which should satisfy BC. But as has been stated by @ruston you need it if you want to sell the house and even more important you need it to show the installation is safe, that is for your own peace of mind. Most builder electrics I have had the pleasure of re-terminating and re-wiring show atrocious termination techniques and no art in laying of cables etc.

 

[R G]

Going by the fact that the op has had to correct some items already prior to having the wiring tested and the fact that he has had to make sure the builder has done things differently , knowing this I would be very wary of whats been done
, I do think he should have ensured an Electrician carried to this work before and not relied on a builders word and then allow him to do the work as well ........

 

[ruston]

Going by the fact that the op has had to correct some items already prior to having the wiring tested and the fact that he has had to make sure the builder has done things differently , knowing this I would be very wary of whats been done
, I do think he should have ensured an Electrician carried to this work before and not relied on a builders word and then allow him to do the work as well ........

That is what I was alluding to when I said he has learned a valuable lesson.

 

[Adrian Haslett]

You are correct. I was trustworthy, he said it was going to be signed off etc which i was surprised at giving the lack of grommets, earth sleeving etc but by this time, i could only withhold money and take corrective actions. I will pay the £350, BC will be happy, the builder wont be when he gets £350 less but he should have done a better job and not left me to correcting his mistakes, spent months liasing with BC about requirements etc. Great forum. Thanks for everyones comments.

 

[ruston]

From me , you are most welcome .

 

[telectrix]

You are correct. I was trustworthy, he said it was going to be signed off etc which i was surprised at giving the lack of grommets, earth sleeving etc but by this time, i could only withhold money and take corrective actions. I will pay the £350, BC will be happy, the builder wont be when he gets £350 less but he should have done a better job and not left me to correcting his mistakes, spent months liasing with BC about requirements etc. Great forum. Thanks for everyones comments.

good for you.now the builder will have learnt a lesson. not to mess with things beyond his capabilities.

 

[Dave OCD]

In an ideal world yes he would learn from it and leave electrics alone in future but I bet he'll do the same somewhere else.

 

[R G]

Builders sometimes can be a law to themselves , I tended to steer clear and work directly for the homeowner directly if I could , builders didn't like it if they were involved too , but it didn't take long before the homeowner realised what they were like when they had problems on other things they had done ....
You have to watch them ....

 

[PEG]

Builders sometimes can be a law to themselves , I tended to steer clear and work directly for the homeowner directly if I could , builders didn't like it if they were involved too , but it didn't take long before the homeowner realised what they were like when they had problems on other things they had done ....
You have to watch them ....

He's been dead for years...but you lot can't leave Fred West alone...

 

[Adrian Haslett]

Hello.

Had consumer unit done and 2 faults noted. Downstairs no continuaty on earth sockets. I have been up all night and found dodgy crimp connection. Thats all fixed. Second was no continuaty on all 3 wires for upstairs sockets at CU. I have literally taken off all sockets and all but one has continuaty accross all 3 wires. Does this mean a break between that socket and CU somewhere and if so. How would i confirm that 100% / fix ?.

 

[stummish]

Sounds like you need a sparky to find the fault.

When you say you have continuity between all 3 wires I assume you mean r1 to r1, r2 to r2 and n to n? Or do you mean r1 to r2, r1 to n, r2 to n?

If it's r1 to r1 it could be you're testing the wrong circuit, or a faulty ring. Possibly a buried junction.

As a side note, a fee weeks ago some of us were talking about wagos vs crimps. Case in point, this couldn't happen with wagos.

 

[Adrian Haslett]

Hello. All 3 wires, life, neutrol and earth have no continuity on upstairs sockets. Found only one socket upstairs having issue but electrician tested from CU when fitting. So assume that means issue betwwen that socket and CU ?

 

[stummish]

Imagine a circle, break the circle at one point. If the cu is on the circle then no matter where you test on that circuit it will be broken, unless the ring has been wired up wrong in the first place.

 

[Octopus]

Hello. All 3 wires, life, neutrol and earth have no continuity on upstairs sockets. Found only one socket upstairs having issue but electrician tested from CU when fitting. So assume that means issue betwwen that socket and CU ?

You would do better calling the spark back than asking a forum....

 

[R G]

So you have had a new consumer unit fitted , was this by an Electrician and if so he has pointed out these faults I take it , and you in your infinite wisdom have decided to play with it yourself , WHY , get the Electrician you have to sort it for you , he is the one who will or should be issuing you the certificate so he is the one to rectify and do the final testing , also do you not realise the only part he would guarantee is what he installs , in effect the installation within your extension has no guarantee by a qualified Electrician , personally I would make this very clear on any Installation Cert I would issue in such circumstances...

 

[Octopus]

How can you say you have fixed faults if you don't have the test kit and knowledge too use it?????

 

[Adrian Haslett]

Hi. I was using continuity metre, got it down to one plug, had floor boards up. Can see the wire that does not energise one way but would need more floor boards up to track. All other sockets have continuity using metre etc. Electrician advised i have a look for loose wirs and see if i can pinpoint and call him back with findings as it is the labour tracking down that is most of cost. Hence doing above. So now i can call him back and advise wire im seeing not live when energised one way. But guess he will need floorboards up etc to trace also. Electrician good man, just advised i check obvious first. Its signed if etc as apoatantly its not a requirment. But its bugging me