Electrician Jobs Advice on faults and Ideas for fixes

[Beefy]

Hi guys,

I'm not a sparks so i'm looking for some advice and help on a few issues. I've recently had all my sockets chased back and new switches chased in and some replaced as well as other work.

My first issue. I've had all my sockets moved up a few inches from there original locations to accomodate for a normal height skirting board (i've got the lowest skirts you've ever seen. glorified bit of wood.) This has been fine, other than 1 socket i've been told can't be heightened. What are my options? The sparks has said the cable needs to be replaced with a longer length. I'm only needing to get 3 to 4 inches more from it. Is there anything i can do to get the extra length needed? otherwise having all the others raised was pointless.

Secondly, the big one. Recently since the light switches have been replaced i've seen some strange behaviour.
a) Kitchen lights (4 led's) turn themselves off. Sometimes turn themselves back on as well.
b) Lights in the lounge flicker when the kitchen lights are dimmed. I can recreate this by using the dimmer in 2 other rooms on the same circuit. Strangely all the upstairs dimmer and lights are the same and all work fine.
c) Yesterday, when using a blender (1560w) my fuse controlling downstairs sockets tripped when blending (this is the first time i've used it at this property)
It's worth noting that my kitchen lights seem to be on 2 circuits (4 on one circuit) 3 on another. On the circuit with 3 lights, only one works and the other 2 are faulty at the fitting.

Lastly,
I have had 2 x outside light installed. The sparks has recently fitted 2 TimeGuard outdoor PIR lights. The original owner had a 2 gang switch for 2 way switching of one set of the kitchen lights and (im assuming) a switch for the outside lights they had. Since the security lights have been swapped, the lights wont work when wired up to the 2nd gang of this switch. The sparks has disconnected the 2 way switching of the kitchen lights here as it's just not needed. When i first had them installed they tripped the CU 3 times within the hour. Strangely now they've settled and havn't done it since.

I've uploaded a pic for reference (apologies i'm at work!)

Sorry for the long post!

Any ideas?

 

[Pete999]

Hi guys,

I'm not a sparks so i'm looking for some advice and help on a few issues. I've recently had all my sockets chased back and new switches chased in and some replaced as well as other work.

My first issue. I've had all my sockets moved up a few inches from there original locations to accomodate for a normal height skirting board (i've got the lowest skirts you've ever seen. glorified bit of wood.) This has been fine, other than 1 socket i've been told can't be heightened. What are my options? The sparks has said the cable needs to be replaced with a longer length. I'm only needing to get 3 to 4 inches more from it. Is there anything i can do to get the extra length needed? otherwise having all the others raised was pointless.

Secondly, the big one. Recently since the light switches have been replaced i've seen some strange behaviour.
a) Kitchen lights (4 led's) turn themselves off. Sometimes turn themselves back on as well.
b) Lights in the lounge flicker when the kitchen lights are dimmed. I can recreate this by using the dimmer in 2 other rooms on the same circuit. Strangely all the upstairs dimmer and lights are the same and all work fine.
c) Yesterday, when using a blender (1560w) my fuse controlling downstairs sockets tripped when blending (this is the first time i've used it at this property)
It's worth noting that my kitchen lights seem to be on 2 circuits (4 on one circuit) 3 on another. On the circuit with 3 lights, only one works and the other 2 are faulty at the fitting.

Lastly,
I have had 2 x outside light installed. The sparks has recently fitted 2 TimeGuard outdoor PIR lights. The original owner had a 2 gang switch for 2 way switching of one set of the kitchen lights and (im assuming) a switch for the outside lights they had. Since the security lights have been swapped, the lights wont work when wired up to the 2nd gang of this switch. The sparks has disconnected the 2 way switching of the kitchen lights here as it's just not needed. When i first had them installed they tripped the CU 3 times within the hour. Strangely now they've settled and havn't done it since.

I've uploaded a pic for reference (apologies i'm at work!)

Sorry for the long post!

Any ideas?

View attachment 49611

Was the work done bt an Electrician or a Builder? what, if any certification was issued on completion of the works?

 

[telectrix]

what he said^^^^^. think you need to get the "electrician" back. he's cocked it up.

 

[Beefy]

Hi Pete - The work was done by an electrician, and they havn't yet finished the job. But i'm guessing the answers i'm likely to recieve are:

1. Can't do anything about the heightening the plug.
2. Take off all your switches and go back to how it was before.
3. Accept you can't have a light switch for your outdoor security lights.

So i'd rather get other's views ahead of time really.

 

[Barnaby Stedman]

Unfortunately your socket issue is not an easy one to fix properly. you could bury some connectors in a connector box in the wall - thats your quick and dodgy solution. however - this really isnt advisable at all and I wouldn't do that personally. Otherwise you would have to run a new cable from the last socket to that socket and on to the next socket.

As to the switches - it sounds fixable - just needs the right person with the right knowledge to sort it out..

 

[Wilko]

Hi - it sounds like you’ve a number of faults. Sorry to say, but your man struggling to move an outlet doesn’t bode well.

 

[telectrix]

easy enough to extend cables as long as it's done right. think your sparks may be a Electrical Trainee, wet behind the ears with little practical experience, but that don't matter as long as he's paid niceic £500. now you're his guinea pig while he's learning how to do the job.

 

[Barnaby Stedman]

are you sure your kitchen lights aren't on a smart switch that your unfriendly neighbour is controlling?

 

[Beefy]

Lovely person, great reviews and good intentions. But seems to irk more on the side of "oh well.." then give me options (regardless of cost) to fix it. Was hoping to arm myself with the options and pose them to the sparks on their last visit.

 

[James]

Hopefully you agreed exactly what work you wanted doing before they started ideally they have seen the diagram you have posted.
It sounds like you could have a few issues with the electrical works carried out.

I am hoping that it is a proper electrical contractor that is part p registered.
If so, detail your concerns to them in writing asking for these issues to be addressed.
Give the contractor an opportunity to put right whatever is not functioning correctly
If they fail to get it working to the spec agreed then you can take it up with the competent persons scheme they are registered with. I.e. niceic or nappit etc.
Don’t pay the bill in full until this is sorted correctly and testing and certification has been provided.

 

[Beefy]

Yup there part p registered, they have also asked me for clarification of anything i want done prior to the last visit. They've done 4 or so visits thus far, quick worker, no breaks or lunch. Work was all listed out in the quote. The diagram i just drew up crudely to give others a rough idea tbh for ideas. I have held back on the final payment for now.

So it seems my only option on the plug is to replace the cable. To be fair, that was what i was told.

Could the second issue with the lights potentially be amplified by changing standard switches over to dimmers? A the moment i have pendants throughout with dimmable LED's. And i meet the minimum load for the dimmer with all bulbs used so i don't think it's a kit issue. I am wondering however whether those 2 faulty kitchen ceiling lights could be interferring at all?

I am at a loss with the security light. If you guys were to troubleshoot the seccurity light issue, where would you start?

 

[Barnaby Stedman]

your outside light problem sounds like there is no live feed to the 2nd gang of the switch.
Is there a permanent live at that switch or not?

 

[telectrix]

i'd start by identifying which cables were which, then ascertain if they were wired correctly. then alter anything that was wrong.

 

[Pete999]

Hi Pete - The work was done by an electrician, and they havn't yet finished the job. But i'm guessing the answers i'm likely to recieve are:

1. Can't do anything about the heightening the plug.
2. Take off all your switches and go back to how it was before.
3. Accept you can't have a light switch for your outdoor security lights.

So i'd rather get other's views ahead of time really.

What Tel said, you never said about certification.

 

[telectrix]

1. Can't do anything about the heightening the plug.
2. Take off all your switches and go back to how it was before.
3. Accept you can't have a light switch for your outdoor security lights.

says it all. there are no problems, only solutions.

 

[Charlie_]

“i've got the lowest skirts you've ever seen. glorified bit of wood”

You do realise this is a public forum?

Skimpy skirts do tend to have that effect though

 

[Beefy]

@Barnanby: are you sure your kitchen lights aren't on a smart switch that your unfriendly neighbour is controlling? Is there a permanent live at that switch or not?

>> I'd be embarassed to admit that being an IT guy... I believe there is yes.

@Pete999 - The sparks is certified yup, nothing sinister. Maybe just a little new to the trade.

@Charlie_ Rereading that has just made me cringe lol - These electrical issues have got me rattled...

 

[Pete999]

@Barnanby: are you sure your kitchen lights aren't on a smart switch that your unfriendly neighbour is controlling? Is there a permanent live at that switch or not?

>> I'd be embarassed to admit that being an IT guy... I believe there is yes.

@Pete999 - The sparks is certified yup, nothing sinister. Maybe just a little new to the trade.

@Charlie_ Rereading that has just made me cringe lol - These electrical issues have got me rattled...

Did this "Electrician" issue any form of certificate on completion?

 

[Octopus]

Where in Surrey are you if you want a 2nd opinion?

 

[Pete999]

@Barnanby: are you sure your kitchen lights aren't on a smart switch that your unfriendly neighbour is controlling? Is there a permanent live at that switch or not?

>> I'd be embarassed to admit that being an IT guy... I believe there is yes.

@Pete999 - The sparks is certified yup, nothing sinister. Maybe just a little new to the trade.

@Charlie_ Rereading that has just made me cringe lol - These electrical issues have got me rattled...

Does this "electrician" belong to any of the CP Schemes NICEIC as an example only, you say he is certified.

 

[Beefy]

Any idea why the blender has tripped my downstairs breaker? Annoyingly when the extension was built they took the lounge feed and extended it round the kitchen but never bought it back to the CU (Concrete floors maybe put them off) So when the CU was upgraded this year a different sparks could only throw in a 16amp fuse as opposed to a 32amp. Could it simply just be a matter of to much on the circuit when the blender is running with it's 1560w motor?

 

[Charlie_]

Where in Surrey are you if you want a 2nd opinion?

On his skimpy skirts or the electrics?

 

[Beefy]

@ Hi Murdoch - I'm in Esher. No skimpy skirts i promise.
@ Charlie - Obviously the skirts...

 

[Octopus]

@ Hi Murdoch - I'm in Esher.

What certificates have you been provided with?

 

[Pete999]

Did this "Electrician" issue any form of certificate on completion?

Agree just asking out of Politeness.

 

[Spoon]

What certificates have you been provided with?

The electrician hasn't finished yet, so probably none.

 

[Charlie_]

You definitely need a 2nd opinion, especially if you are holding money back..
Before engaging somebody to rectify his work though you should give him notice of what the issues are and the opportunity to rectify them himself

 

[Barnaby Stedman]

Well I would ask - have you run a jumper to the 2nd gang of the switch from the other gang when you wired the outside lights into that 2nd gang?

 

[Beefy]

@Murdoch - None yet. Should i ask for any if it's just socket/switch replacements and a security light? I'm not really up with when to request them to be honest. Sparky's not finished the job yet though so nothing as of yet. The sparks hasn't technically finished the job yet, but my plan was to arm myself with some good questioning and recommendations to see what answers i got back when i bring it up.

@Pete999 - NAPIT Membership and insurance. Is it enough for this type of routine domestic work?

 

[Octopus]

@Beefy
so if he's coming back would suggest an email to him with some questions and highlighting some of the "snags" ............ best keep it between you and him for the time being.

As for testing & certs, if new cables have been added / extended then yes I would say a certificate is necessary.

 

[Beefy]

@Murdoch - I think your right, one socket was added additionally and an extension from an original socket to the loft socket was added. I'll keep you posted. Would i be right in simply asking for the switch that controls the security light to be troubleshooted. Sounds like i'm stuck with raising the plug socket due to the majority saying that extending it is a bit dodgy?

 

[littlespark]

I don’t think raising the socket height is an impossibility.
If cables come from above, easy to shorten.
If cables come from below, I would think a wooden floor. MFT joint under the floor and a spur up to socket.
Worse case is concrete floor. Just make your joint in the old box and put a very flat blank plate over it.

It does sound like the spark is out of his depth. And his “solutions” make him out to be a bit of a t!t.

 

[James]

You definitely need a 2nd opinion, especially if you are holding money back..
Before engaging somebody to rectify his work though you should give him notice of what the issues are and the opportunity to rectify them himself

I'm sure I said something like that on page one. agree whole heartedly.

 

[Beefy]

@littlespark - Thanks. What's an MFT joint sorry?
@James the Spark1976 - You did, which is affirming for me. Cheers..

The reason i've opted to do it this way round. ie. reach out for advice prior to emailing him is that i've already has the answers to the questions in a round about way. Howeverm he has asked me to let him know of any issues prior to the last visit to finish off 2 small pieces of work. However without the electrical knowledge and being able to make suggestions and challenge the reasoning, the email/discussion could be a bit one sided.

I'd like the job to finish with the outstanding issues resolved, however if he turns round and says, "well.. Thats your parts" or " I can do that, but i feel it's outside of the quote and could take days to rectify" or "I can do that, but it's going to be very destructive (even if it's not)" then armed with a little knowledge i can help sway the convo.

 

[telectrix]

the socket that you want moving up should not be an issue. joint cables with crimps or soldered joints, heat shrink over, plaster in.
as for certification, should be a MWC ( minor works certificate) issued on completion.

 

[littlespark]

MFT = maintenance free termination.
Basically a joint that doesn’t need to be accessed in the future.
Crimps, as @telectrix mentions or spring loaded push in connections.
Screw terminals in the old choc block are not classed as maintenance free

 

[123]

MFT = maintenance free termination.
Basically a joint that doesn’t need to be accessed in the future.
Crimps, as @telectrix mentions or spring loaded push in connections.
Screw terminals in the old choc block are not classed as maintenance free

Thank goodness for that, I thought for a moment you had left your MFT under the floor, which would make for rather an expensive job.

 

[Charlie_]

You could also make the joint off behind the new larger skirting board

 

[richy3333]

the socket that you want moving up should not be an issue. joint cables with crimps or soldered joints, heat shrink over, plaster in.
as for certification, should be a MWC ( minor works certificate) issued on completion.

Finally somebody states the simple and obvious. Why can’t this cable be crimped and sleeved. Absolutely no need for MF junction boxes.

 

[littlespark]

Ooo. My bad. MFT is multi function tester.
I meant MF, as maintenance free.

It’s only Tuesday and I’m already getting my words muddled

 

[Charlie_]

Crimping solid wires

https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2 books/links/sections/201 General Requirements.html

Just don’t tell nasa

 

[Pete999]

You could also make the joint off behind the new larger skirting board

Correct, but don't like it Seems a bit Cowboyish to me, but I'm old School so take no notice.

 

[Charlie_]

Correct, but don't like it Seems a bit Cowboyish to me, but I'm old School so take no notice.

I just meant as an alternative to burying the joint in the plaster

 

[Tony Reidy]

Any idea why the blender has tripped my downstairs breaker? Annoyingly when the extension was built they took the lounge feed and extended it round the kitchen but never bought it back to the CU (Concrete floors maybe put them off) So when the CU was upgraded this year a different sparks could only throw in a 16amp fuse as opposed to a 32amp. Could it simply just be a matter of to much on the circuit when the blender is running with it's 1560w motor?

Oh dear that is a bad news your kitchen needs a ring main 32A preferably on it own circuit suggest you get a proper sparks in to see how little damage he can do to rectify this

 

[SparkyAndGeorge]

whats tripping when you turn the blender on the mcb or an rcd

 

[Pete999]

I just meant as an alternative to burying the joint in the plaster

Right

 

[GeorgeCooke]

Yup there part p registered,

Rubbish. If they are claiming that they are liars. There is no such thing as part P registered. Part P is a building regulation not a qualification. Try asking for their registration certificate to call their bluff.

 

[Charlie_]

Rubbish. If they are claiming that they are liars. There is no such thing as part P registered. Part P is a building regulation not a qualification. Try asking for their registration certificate to call their bluff.

If somebody is on a register of competent part p electricians then aren’t they part p registered?

 

[GeorgeCooke]

If somebody is on a register of competent part p electricians then aren’t they part p registered?

No such thing as "part P electricians". Part P is a building regulation not a qualification.

 

[Charlie_]

No such thing as "part P electricians". Part P is a building regulation not a qualification.

I’m an approved part p electrician and and also registered as such..