Am I being taken for a ride?

[Pete999]

Been told off already SC don't you start as well, please I've been to Tesco aint that punishment, already.

 

[telectrix]

bet you came out with a few bottles of red,though.

 

[Pete999]

bet you came out with a few bottles of red,though.

1 or 6 Tel cheaper that way 25% off can't be bad, can it?

 

[SparkyChick]

Been told off already SC don't you start as well, please I've been to Tesco aint that punishment, already.

Any super market on a Friday afternoon... you have my sympathies dear

 

[Pete999]

Any super market on a Friday afternoon... you have my sympathies dear

Thanks SC, but unless you have been shopping with Mrs Pete999 you have absolutely no idea of the torment I go through every Friday, it's like pulling teeth whilst undergoing open heart surgery without an anesthetic.

 

[SparkyChick]

Thanks SC, but unless you have been shopping with Mrs Pete999 you have absolutely no idea of the torment I go through every Friday, it's like pulling teeth whilst undergoing open heart surgery without an anesthetic.

Obviously I've not been shopping with your wife, but I've heard enough complaints from Mum and Dad about each other whilst shopping to be able to get a handle on the torment people go through

 

[Pete999]

Obviously I've not been shopping with your wife, but I've heard enough complaints from Mum and Dad about each other whilst shopping to be able to get a handle on the torment people go through

Torment, torment you wait SC your turn will come.

 

[telectrix]

our local Aldi is better because Toolstation is only 100 yards away. and there's a brilliant butty bar on the car park.

 

[Pete999]

Our Tesco has Subway, Jennies, Burger king, Maccy dees, and the best bit some fly by night flea pit in the car park, a wonderful choice, what would yours be?

 

[surreygirl]

Our Tesco has Subway, Jennies, Burger king, Maccy dees, and the best bit some fly by night flea pit in the car park, a wonderful choice, what would yours be?

Well whilst you have all been busy at the supermarkets I have had a reply from the Agent after asking why the wires cannot be checked and this is what the Agent has now come up with and says

"It is not that the wire can’t be checked as it’s in the wall it’s that the wire used can only go 3 meters and at both ends are different there must be a join and he needs to test the join"

I do not understand that at all or why they think that there is a join. As some one has said I have to find another electrician!

 

[SparkyChick]

Torment, torment you wait SC your turn will come.

Not if I stay single it won't.

Our Tesco has Subway, Jennies, Burger king, Maccy dees, and the best bit some fly by night flea pit in the car park, a wonderful choice, what would yours be?

Subway if I'm feeling healthy or Burger King if I'm feeling hungry for a Whopper

 

[SparkyChick]

Well whilst you have all been busy at the supermarkets I have had a reply from the Agent after asking why the wires cannot be checked and this is what the Agent has now come up with and says

"It is not that the wire can’t be checked as it’s in the wall it’s that the wire used can only go 3 meters and at both ends are different there must be a join and he needs to test the join"

I do not understand that at all or why they think that there is a join. As some one has said I have to find another electrician!

The wire used can go much further than that because you can buy it in big reels. So yet more BS.

However, the 3m limit is guidance from the distribution network operators regarding the maximum length of tails from the meter/service head. If the tails are longer than that you should have a switch fuse as the DNO won't guarantee their fuse will disconnect quickly enough if a fault exists on the tails. I'm not sure what the rules are in the case of a centralised feed like you would expect to have in a block of flats.

As for the join... plausible, but be careful with what they are calling different. And by that if at one end they are claiming they are just grey and at the other they are say red and black, then that could just be that one end has more exposed basic insulation (the red/black). The grey is the outer sheath which provides a second layer of insulation.

Has the economy 7 board ever been moved? Has the electricity supply point to your flat ever moved?

 

[Des 56]

I have skim read this thread and think someone is in desperate need of honesty

There are honest and competent electricians around,not all of us are out to screw the customers,some of us actually have a lot of pride in giving good service for required works
Best to get another opinion,there is too much guesswork involved to make judgement remotely,only perceptions

 

[surreygirl]

The wire used can go much further than that because you can buy it in big reels. So yet more BS.

However, the 3m limit is guidance from the distribution network operators regarding the maximum length of tails from the meter/service head. If the tails are longer than that you should have a switch fuse as the DNO won't guarantee their fuse will disconnect quickly enough if a fault exists on the tails. I'm not sure what the rules are in the case of a centralised feed like you would expect to have in a block of flats.

As for the join... plausible, but be careful with what they are calling different. And by that if at one end they are claiming they are just grey and at the other they are say red and black, then that could just be that one end has more exposed basic insulation (the red/black). The grey is the outer sheath which provides a second layer of insulation.

Has the economy 7 board ever been moved? Has the electricity supply point to your flat ever moved?

No never. I have had a modern electrical box fitted in the kitchen when I had the underfloor heating put in, but that was it.

 

[surreygirl]

I have skim read this thread and think someone is in desperate need of honesty

There are honest and competent electricians around,not all of us are out to screw the customers,some of us actually have a lot of pride in giving good service for required works
Best to get another opinion,there is too much guesswork involved to make judgement remotely,only perceptions

I agree with you with what you say. I need a second opinion that is for sure, because I am lost completely and I have lost confidence in both the Agent and the electrician. I think the electrician means well and wants perhaps to get it right. I really do not know what to think. I mean he said a lot of things which when I questioned him about what he was doing just as you guys told me he backed off. He didn't see the wiring in the economy 7 box it is too high to get up to without ladders.

 

[Toneyz]

How come you seem to have no say in the work that needs to be done?. I know you posted that you are away a lot have you signed something that gives the agent instruction to instruct on your behalf. Have you posted a copy of the condition report on here as I may of not seen it.

 

[Pete999]

How come you seem to have no say in the work that needs to be done?. I know you posted that you are away a lot have you signed something that gives the agent instruction to instruct on your behalf. Have you posted a copy of the condition report on here as I may of not seen it.

Don't think surreygirl has had much luck with getting a cert yet

 

[surreygirl]

How come you seem to have no say in the work that needs to be done?. I know you posted that you are away a lot have you signed something that gives the agent instruction to instruct on your behalf. Have you posted a copy of the condition report on here as I may of not seen it.

Yes I did right at the beginning of the thread and I questioned him on it and he removed a few of the things on it.

The problem is that the Agents electrician will not give me a safety cert until he has fixed all he says needs doing and I am out of time as I go back to Spain on Wednesday, however I may have to come back I think. Having a current safety certificate is part of their conditions for obvious reasons but what I should have done was get in my own electrician as using their one has opened a whole can of worms. I am looking today to get one in for Monday and he can then liaise with the tenant if work does need to be carried out like the new cable going through the lounge along the wall and into the kitchen!

If that actually needs to be done!

 

[surreygirl]

Don't think surreygirl has had much luck with getting a cert yet

Not yet no!

 

[tom porter]

I had an electrician come to do a safety check at my property that I let out last week and he has recommended that remedial work should be done at a cost of 2,100 pounds, These are:-

Upgrade of eco 7db
Upgrade of 2 x circuits to RCD protection
Install of isolation point for underfloor heating
identification of points where required
Fusing of points
Enclosure of exposed wiring - these are wires that are not in trunking
Investigation of supply wiring and condition of main isolator and repair
Retermination of required points
cable enclosures

Nothing listed but the sub total is 1,750 plus VAT comes to 2,100

Is that a lot! I last had a test done five years ago, true the wire of the economy 7 is in a situation which is not assessable, however he wants to run a wire from it across the lounge and into the kitchen!

But the amount seems excessive and it is through the Agents who manage the property for me.

Any suggestions would be very helpful.

Many thanks Surreygirl

seems a bit expensive but without full itemised quote I can't really comment

 

[surreygirl]

seems on the high side to me, but without being physically there, it's hard to tell the extent of the work required. my advice would be to get a second opinion; a local spark .w

I am going to do that as some one has kindly given me the details of an electrician who lives near my flat so that is very helpful and I will ring him on Monday so I am feeling a bit happier now

 

[Phil Thompson]

I personally wouldn't be jumping to any conclusions yet, but it's good you have found a third party for a second opinion.

Will watch out for the update after the other Spark has been in to have a look.

 

[UNG]

While you really need to change the electrician I also think you need to consider changing the agent as well as they don't seem to be acting in the clients best interest.
I'm assuming that this agent has been acting for you for a number of years and has had sight of at least one previous EICR for the property and does not appear to want to challenge the findings of the electrician, I would ask the agent how long the electrician has been doing them and if there are any vested interests, family connections etc

 

[surreygirl]

While you really need to change the electrician I also think you need to consider changing the agent as well as they don't seem to be acting in the clients best interest.
I'm assuming that this agent has been acting for you for a number of years and has had sight of at least one previous EICR for the property and does not appear to want to challenge the findings of the electrician, I would ask the agent how long the electrician has been doing them and if there are any vested interests, family connections etc

This the first safety cert they have done. I have used them for a year. I am not very impressed at all because a lot of work that needed doing ie Iasked them to put in a hot and the tenants said that the shower wasnt working and that was three months ago. When I arrived not one thing had been done. I said I would then go and buy the hood as I was in the UK and the Agent said that he already had the good which I think was a lie any the long and the short of that was that there was nowhere to put the extractar pipe line or whatever its called so he told me he was returning the hood which I do not beleive he had in the first place and yes you are right the Agent told me that there had never been a complaint about the electrician before, but that doesnt really bother me and also I do not like to be manipulated. I still find £2100 a great deal of money as I said £410 to trunk a small area of grey wiring - about 2 feet -, put in two new fuses for the underfloor heating remove a switch that is at the moment redundant which I do not want removed because it was there for a pump which I want that put back as the water pressure is low and something called "fusing of points" which some said to ask what that was so I did and he removed that one! The the wiring from the main outside board which is some 13 feet to the kitchen was going to be £1600! and yes as you say I will change the Agents when this is over. I am not impressed at all. They have at least now put in the new shower so that is something. No they most certainly are not working in my best interest.

Also I note that if it is the case that you can only put in 3 metres of wiring before a connection then that means that either at the beginning or at the end there is only 36 inches where the connection is and as there will be a huge hole where he takes out the main switch board why can't he test the connection!

 

[UNG]

If this is the first EICR they have done and the agent has let the flat for a year I'm assuming there must be a previous EICR in existance

 

[Toneyz]

Did you ever have a EICR by another electrician at the start as you say a year has gone by with this electrician & agent shouldn't these items been highlighted before the property being rented out ?.

 

[surreygirl]

If this is the first EICR they have done and the agent has let the flat for a year I'm assuming there must be a previous EICR in existance

Yes there is but that was five years ago so it needs a new one and that is why the Agents electrician came in the first place but he failed it.

 

[Phil Thompson]

Can you not get that Spark to see what he thinks?

 

[Toneyz]

Can you not get that Spark to see what he thinks?

Something isn't right here ,the original EICR wasn't thorough enough/ picked up on these things or the current electrician is lining his pockets.

 

[telectrix]

this is sounding more and more like a rip off by either the sparks or the agent or both. let's wait and see what the independent sparks comes up with.

 

[surreygirl]

Can you not get that Spark to see what he thinks?

He is coming in on Tuesday to look at the underfloor heating fuses which the Agents electrician said has the wrong fuses in so hopefully he will sort that out and also yes if those wires were meant to be trunked then he has not done his job either! and he has the qualifications to do a safety cert so not sure why he was not thorough, but he obviously wasnt still we shall see.

All very frustrating

 

[Phil Thompson]

Would be funny to get them all there together, see the outcome.

 

[surreygirl]

Would be funny to get them all there together, see the outcome.

Wish I had the time. Yes it would be

 

[telectrix]

last time there was a meeting of 3, it was decided to give Poland to the russians, after 5 years of war liberating them from another maniac.

 

[UNG]

Yes there is but that was five years ago so it needs a new one and that is why the Agents electrician came in the first place but he failed it.

I'm well aware of the requirements but the previous EICR is a point of reference unless a lot of alterations have been carried out which should have been certified anyway or the tenant has tampered with the installation.

An electrical installation cannot "fail" an Electrical Installation Condition Report which is a report on the condition of the electrical installation it is not the same as a car MOT which is a pass, pass with advisories or fail outcome.
An EICR has a satisfactory / unsatisfactory for continued use outcome although FI, C1, C2 and C3 codes could be classed as graded advisories which can affect the overall outcome given on the report
The issue of the report is not conditional on the inspecting electrician carrying out all the remedial work needed to give the necessary satisfactory outcome required
The attitude of this electrician from what has been said seems to give an impression that his skill set is not up to carrying out EICR's

 

[surreygirl]

I'm well aware of the requirements but the previous EICR is a point of reference unless a lot of alterations have been carried out which should have been certified anyway or the tenant has tampered with the installation.

An electrical installation cannot "fail" an Electrical Installation Condition Report which is a report on the condition of the electrical installation it is not the same as a car MOT which is a pass, pass with advisories or fail outcome.
An EICR has a satisfactory / unsatisfactory for continued use outcome although FI, C1, C2 and C3 codes could be classed as graded advisories which can affect the overall outcome given on the report
The issue of the report is not conditional on the inspecting electrician carrying out all the remedial work needed to give the necessary satisfactory outcome required
The attitude of this electrician from what has been said seems to give an impression that his skill set is not up to carrying out EICR's

I agree. There is something wrong somewhere along the line in fact I do not need one really I have just read it is every five years for multiple households, however I like to be sure and better to be safe then sorry, but being taken for a ride was not my intention and that is what seems to be happening here. I think the electrician is over doing it a bit I have to say.

Thank you for your reply.

If I get the right fuses in for the underfloor heating I shall be a lot happier.

 

[Phil Thompson]

Every 5 years or change of tenant. Whichever comes sooner.

 

[telectrix]

I agree. There is something wrong somewhere along the line in fact I do not need one really I have just read it is every five years for multiple households, however I like to be sure and better to be safe then sorry, but being taken for a ride was not my intention and that is what seems to be happening here. I think the electrician is over doing it a bit I have to say.

Thank you for your reply.

If I get the right fuses in for the underfloor heating I shall be a lot happier.

would need to know the loading of the ufh to determine the fuse/MCB size, as a rough guide, ufh is approx.150 -200 watts /sq.m, so if you have,say 10sq.m, that's 2kw, approx 9A. fuse/MCB should be sized to protect the cable to the ufh, so could be anywhere between 10A and 32A depending on how it's wired.

 

[Toneyz]

this is sounding more and more like a rip off by either the sparks or the agent or both. let's wait and see what the independent sparks comes up with.

Tony Cable is freelance now according to P.E. mag.

 

[telectrix]

Tony Cable is freelance now according to P.E. mag.

so.a bit like unleashing a yorkshire terrier into a pack of rottweilers. let's all rip him to pieces.

 

[Pete999]

Tony Cable is freelance now according to P.E. mag.

Oh no Jesus, now what? TC 7671.A

 

[surreygirl]

would need to know the loading of the ufh to determine the fuse/MCB size, as a rough guide, ufh is approx.150 -200 watts /sq.m, so if you have,say 10sq.m, that's 2kw, approx 9A. fuse/MCB should be sized to protect the cable to the ufh, so could be anywhere between 10A and 32A depending on how it's wired.

It is about 20 square meters 12ft by 15ft something like that!

I so not know what wattage the fuses are at the moment I will find that out on Tuesday.

 

[surreygirl]

Every 5 years or change of tenant. Whichever comes sooner.

That is what is recommended but it is not obligatory according to the Gov site. 10 years for owner occupier home and five years for a tenanted property. Although I do know that agents like to do one after every new tenant.

 

[Pete999]

That is what is recommended but it is not obligatory according to the Gov site. 10 years for owner occupier home and five years for a tenanted property. Although I do know that agents like to do one after every new tenant.

The Government WTF do they know, SFA

 

[telectrix]

20sq.m. equates to around 4kW, i.e 18A, so i'd expect on a 2.5mm cable with a 20A MCB/fuse. assuming all are on the same circuit. if split over more circuits, the the MCB/fuse rating may belower.

 

[surreygirl]

The Government WTF do they know, SFA

True, but that is what is recommended. I think every five years is good to be on the safe side. It is the Agents who say after every tenant there should be a check. But it is best to be safe I think.

 

[Toneyz]

True, but that is what is recommended. I think every five years is good to be on the safe side. It is the Agents who say after every tenant there should be a check. But it is best to be safe I think.

You never know what not all but some tenants do.

 

[surreygirl]

20sq.m. equates to around 4kW, i.e 18A, so i'd expect on a 2.5mm cable with a 20A MCB/fuse. assuming all are on the same circuit. if split over more circuits, the the MCB/fuse rating may belower.

Yes it is all on the same circuit I only have it in the lounge and the very small hall. It is not all over.

 

[Pete999]

True, but that is what is recommended. I think every five years is good to be on the safe side. It is the Agents who say after every tenant there should be a check. But it is best to be safe I think.

My Son is an Electrician, he is renting a property, no EICR it's a case of where can I rent at a good price? I know it's not right, but needs must I'm afraid, and until this excuse for a Government, become part of the real World we are doomed Mr Mainwaring, doomed. Stop fluffing around Mrs May, we don't have all of you privileges, or your money, think of the, what was the working population, all of you should be ashamed of your complete lack of knowledge of Mr and Mrs Average, stop thinking of who or what thinks of you, do the right thing, help the British people, because you aren't doing it yet. Look after number one, you constituents, well maybe not yours but you get my drift.

 

[surreygirl]

You never know what not all but some tenants do.

True some do to odd things I have to say but touch wood and whistle I have not had any bad tenants so far so good.