-
Please checkout the new poll we will be pushing hard, and want some good stories to come out of this
result are public - you can change your vote over time, which might genuinely be the case from time to time.
Search the forum,
Hmm. Not convinced that's in UK. I don't think we have too many buildings like that here! I think it's Pakistan judging from the clothing and traffic.
The idea of an in-roof tracker is intriguing. Not sure it's economically viable for domestic 4kW though.
NOT UP FOR A SLANGING MATCH BUT WORCESTOR IS CORRECT YOU PAID MORE THAN REQUIRED FOR THE SYSTEM ASSUMING ITS A 4KW AND WHEN YOU HAD IT. would like to see some pics of the installation and the security alarm
Romag are a specialist Glass Manufacturer and have been producing custom PV panels since around 2005 I think, yes, I am using Romag Panels, Black on Black with specialist Glass, each panel is 280Wp and purchased them direct from Romag.
The Toilet Cisterns I have already changed to give dual flush and they are smaller/slimmer models that use less water.
The radiators I had changed when I fitted the new 'A' rated condensing boiler, the back of them are pre-treated so give the same effect as your suggestion (that I had done on the old ones).
Yes, someone told me about the curtains so the new ones are nice and thick and fully lined.
All nice simple ideas though.
I'd have to turn every light MCB off, every light on in the house at 9 this morning!!!
Ha ha, that's funny, I don't have kids so don't have that problem, however all the new interior doors are fire doors and fitted with fire chains to close automatically so when the electrician was doing the re-wire, we fitted all the rooms with door jam switches...
I tried telling them Greg and Otto Barker would get them if they left the lights on but that just gave them nightmares...
I respectfully disagree. With the title of this thread, the gun barrell that we're all looking down and the Daily Mail tone of the contributor's post - I think I have been less than harsh.
But my patience with this thread has worn thin now - I'm looking forward to the pictures.
Dear oh dear, with an attitude like that no wonder the forums are not that busy - Daily Mail reader, give me a break, I don't read any newspaper as I prefer to read 'NEWS' not someones opinion of the news or celebrity gossip...
Look, I posted a thread and had a couple of you jump down my throat - I have neither insulted anyone, derided anyone or abused anyone - get a grip SolarCity, you are starting to sound bitter...!
I will post the pics when I find time to take them, until that time, take a chill pill as the images are going to prove my point...
I didn't say you were a Daily Mail reader. I suggested that you had a Daily Mail attitude. Your attitude towards green energy appears to be that it is a waste of money - that green taxes are a waste and a drain on people.
This thread, on a trade forum, is about people going bust - ie, contributors to this forum - if it surprises you that I am bitter when a climate skeptic appears on the forum and cheerily suggests that the government did the right thing then I can only assume that you're not being serious.
Try going on to a police forum and suggesting that cuts to their service is a good thing and see what response you get.
The images will certainly be interesting - but it won't prove any point. It'll just show that you have an incredibly impressive PV system.
I for one have been following this thread and have been uneasy about the responses you have received. I am very interested in the system you clearly put a lot of thought into to get installed. Price wise it was expensive but your system specification dictated that, we installed a standard SunPower system (most expensive on the market) around that time and it was similar in price without any of the tracking technology.
Also when you post the pictures if you can give some details on how the planners responded to this technology it would be very helpful.
Is that the U.S. Sunpower or the UK COmpany? I know the U.S. COmpany from my time in the states and in Laguna Beach virtually every system I saw being installed was a Sunpower System, can't speak for the UK Company as don't know if it's connected or the same systems on licence etc.
I checked with my local planning office as I was planning the extension on the house and as I was putting them on the Detached Garage, I needed no planning consent at all provided I kept to all the rules about how they are fitted/installed and by a registered authorised company. The attidude of the planners was that they were actively encouraging residents to install them and consideration was only required if the building was in one of the designated conservation areas or a listed building....
It is the US SunPower, they were quite late to the UK market only getting their MCS accreditation in October last year. You need to be an approved partner to install them. They are a very good panel although you do pay for it. Some very impressive real life data coming back on them that goes a long way to justifying the extra expense, regarding yield and panel degradation over time.
One of the requirements of PV's permitted development is that the panels are mounted in the same plane of the roof (in anticipation of fixed roof mounting systems to tilt panels toward the optimum directions and causing aesthetic issues. So the reason for the interest in your system is that presumably when the panels tilt they will be out of plane of the roof? As you say the planners have been very supportive of PV and it is unlikely anyone will pull you up on it, but this is why it is of interest to us installers if it was to become a commonly used method to boost yield.
That's good news if it's the U.S. Company, they are really rated in the U.S...
I advised the planning dept of the fact these would move vertically off the plane but it was the fact it was being fitted to the detached garage that is not viewed from the road that was the clincher, I think had the garage been attached to the house and visible from the road, then they might have given me a hard time or refused... I have always found with planning depts if you are straight up about what you want to do, they will assist you a great deal.... when I first built the detached garage, technically it needed no planning as 'permitted' development, not being over 4.2mtres etc, but I still checked to make sure - they came round, measured up the land and size of current house and said, 'Yes, no problem as with the additional building it will still only be 28% of the land space which is why I am adding the side extension as that will take it up to 35%, well within the 50% limit.
Hopefully they become well rated here as well, certainly seem in a different league to any other panel currently on the market.
Good to hear with full knowledge of how the system will function that the planners were still happy. As you say always best to run things past them.
Would love to see time laps photos of your systems in action. How has the system performed since it was installed given it has had the bulk of the generating season already (fingers crossed for a summer next year!)
Well they went live on 1 March 2012 and despite the fact we have had the worse spring/summer/autumn I can remember in my lifetime, so far they have cut my direct debit in half and for the first 2 qtrs I have received approx £285 for March-May, £655 for Jun-August and with November being the end of the 3rd quarter, I am expecting around £300 based on my daily readings. I would expect a similar £285-£300 for the period Jan-Mar 2012 so expecting roughly of £1,500 or thereabouts this first year. This would mean with no improvement in weather this would produce FIT to cover the costs of £13,500 within 9yrs.
Of course I have to take into account my Electric Bills have dropped between £40-50pm on my Direct Debit, so that is another £480 - £600 pa making a total of £1,980 per annum income/savings reducing 'pay-back' time to 6-7 yrs. As the panels should be good for 15-20yrs, even allowing for 'drop-off', if I say they are useless by year 15, I will have 6yrs of around £2,000pa tax free, that is making £10-£12K overall profit over the life of the panels or £18-20K if they last the full 20yrs. You have to try and calculate 'drop-off' against increased FIT rates in line with inflation so not an exact 'science' but it does give a good indication.
I have devised a spreadsheet that carries the tarrifs and then calculates income based on the daily readings inserted. It then calculates the 'average' daily generation, that was until October around 10.5kW hrs per day, this has dropped now to about 9.2 kW hrs per day. Once I have the full 12 months, it will give me a good daily 'average' over the year with a total FIT income...
Discuss Anyone gone bust yet? in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
- Reaction score
- 516
- Reaction score
- 205
Hmm. Not convinced that's in UK. I don't think we have too many buildings like that here! I think it's Pakistan judging from the clothing and traffic.
The idea of an in-roof tracker is intriguing. Not sure it's economically viable for domestic 4kW though.
- Reaction score
- 516
Sorry that one wasn't meant to be serious! 
I'd really like to see pictures and specifiation of this in-roof, variable tilt/oreintation mounting system with security fixings.
Please essexrs, share us the secrets of your install:
What Make of Panels do you have?
What Inverter do you have?, How is it configured - how many strings?
Where is the inverter located? Garage? Loft?
What Mounting System do you have?
Which Alarm system did they install?
If you are not sure where to find all that, all of the above should have been in your quotation and also included in your handover pack
Can you please share some photos you have us all intrigued.
Thanks
I'd really like to see pictures and specifiation of this in-roof, variable tilt/oreintation mounting system with security fixings.
Please essexrs, share us the secrets of your install:
What Make of Panels do you have?
What Inverter do you have?, How is it configured - how many strings?
Where is the inverter located? Garage? Loft?
What Mounting System do you have?
Which Alarm system did they install?
If you are not sure where to find all that, all of the above should have been in your quotation and also included in your handover pack
Can you please share some photos you have us all intrigued.
Thanks
- Reaction score
- 267
Solyndra?
F
finchy
what a funny thread !! I'd be interested in an alarm system as I live in lawless Essex, just saw a bloke walking down the road with a panel. I did think it was strange but though they must be the new 24hr solar panels and must be charging his phone.
S
sedgy34
NOT UP FOR A SLANGING MATCH BUT WORCESTOR IS CORRECT YOU PAID MORE THAN REQUIRED FOR THE SYSTEM ASSUMING ITS A 4KW AND WHEN YOU HAD IT. would like to see some pics of the installation and the security alarm
B
balbecdaze
I too would love to see an in-roof tracking system (alarmed as well I hear?), could we please see some pics?
You're clearly very proud of it.
You're clearly very proud of it.
G
Greenman Solar
We could install a Deger dual axis tracker on his roof for that money
G
Greenman Solar
He may not like the 5 tonnes of concrete in his living room though
M
MCS Renewables
In answer to the original posting this lot have gone bust :-
Energy Conservation Group :-
Energy Conservation Group - Timeline | Facebook
http://www.companyrescue.co.uk/insolven ... ion-notice
They were Simplee Solar then Staywarm ...... work nationally with subbies ......oversellers with average installs by subbies at best.
They were based based in Three Legged Cross, which is East Dorset but very near Ringwood in Hants.
Energy Conservation Group :-
Energy Conservation Group - Timeline | Facebook
http://www.companyrescue.co.uk/insolven ... ion-notice
They were Simplee Solar then Staywarm ...... work nationally with subbies ......oversellers with average installs by subbies at best.
They were based based in Three Legged Cross, which is East Dorset but very near Ringwood in Hants.
S
sedgy34
I would say he's got mixed up or been misled with mpp tracker wording
could be prismatic glass, which I've seen described as passive tracking.
The description sounds like Ahead solar panels, which aren't actually UK made, just UK rebadged and often mis-sold as being UK made, and uses similar claims around the low light performance (which may or may not be justified - hard to know).
AFAIK the only UK made panels are Romag and Sharp, both of which only fabricate the panel using imported cells. There's also a company that manufactures crystaline silicon ingots, then exports them, but I've forgotten their name.
The description sounds like Ahead solar panels, which aren't actually UK made, just UK rebadged and often mis-sold as being UK made, and uses similar claims around the low light performance (which may or may not be justified - hard to know).
AFAIK the only UK made panels are Romag and Sharp, both of which only fabricate the panel using imported cells. There's also a company that manufactures crystaline silicon ingots, then exports them, but I've forgotten their name.
E
essexrs
Romag are a specialist Glass Manufacturer and have been producing custom PV panels since around 2005 I think, yes, I am using Romag Panels, Black on Black with specialist Glass, each panel is 280Wp and purchased them direct from Romag.
E
essexrs
Just to point out, I am not confused, I have not been ripped off and I will get some pics of it and post them for you....
The Inverter is a Sunny Boy 4000TL and the system is two arrarys, one of 9 Romag units, one of 7 Romag units.
The system is very simple to create with the existing technology, all you need are mounts that are modified to 'hinge' at the top, so that 'pistons' raise the bottom of the panel upwards to maintain as best it can the peak aspect for solar collection - the position of the sun as it passes overhead is done with a Linear Position Sensor that trips the motors. Whilst we looked at bespoke systems to make the frames move on both planes, it would have created too many shadows.
The alarm system fitted is a modified system normally used for Scaffolding so that if anyone attempts to remove any part of the array the alarm will be activited.
For reference, it is NOT fitted on the roof of the House, it is fitted to the roof of the detached garage and whilst the Deger Dual Axis Tracker is great for single/quad panels ground or flat roof mounted, they are no good for a tiled pitch roof are they?
Lets just say my system is a little more advanced than this : simplest solar tracker for solar panels - YouTube but not quite as agile as this :- Homemade / DIY solar tracker 2/2 - YouTube in that mine only move in a vertical plane due to location of the building.
There is a wealth of technology out there that can be utilised or modified to get you where you want to be or close to it and if you have a technical background (I used to write the repair and technical manuals for Goodmans, Hinari, Red Devil and Alba), most things are achievable...
I am not knocking anyone on this website, but for what I have and what I have paid to achieve it, I think it is money well spent and as it is my money to spend, it is my choice regardless of your opinion. I had to pay out for the customisation, I had to pay out to re-inforce the roof and then for the company to fit them. As I said, the money is worthless sitting in the bank, but the investment of the money in my house have made the EPC go from an E47/E41 to a D57/B83 so far.
There is more to do as I recently found out that Thames Water will DISCOUNT down your sewage charges on your water bill for water put back into the ground instead of the sewer system, therefore, as I am about to embark on the construction of a single storey extension on the side of the house, I am going to dig up the front garden and drop in a soakaway for the rainwater off the extension, but also put a 100 litre tank in the roof of the extension that will collect rain water from the main house and use this to flush the toilets...
Any other suggestions or idea for reducing energy bills, water rates etc very welcome.
The Inverter is a Sunny Boy 4000TL and the system is two arrarys, one of 9 Romag units, one of 7 Romag units.
The system is very simple to create with the existing technology, all you need are mounts that are modified to 'hinge' at the top, so that 'pistons' raise the bottom of the panel upwards to maintain as best it can the peak aspect for solar collection - the position of the sun as it passes overhead is done with a Linear Position Sensor that trips the motors. Whilst we looked at bespoke systems to make the frames move on both planes, it would have created too many shadows.
The alarm system fitted is a modified system normally used for Scaffolding so that if anyone attempts to remove any part of the array the alarm will be activited.
For reference, it is NOT fitted on the roof of the House, it is fitted to the roof of the detached garage and whilst the Deger Dual Axis Tracker is great for single/quad panels ground or flat roof mounted, they are no good for a tiled pitch roof are they?
Lets just say my system is a little more advanced than this : simplest solar tracker for solar panels - YouTube but not quite as agile as this :- Homemade / DIY solar tracker 2/2 - YouTube in that mine only move in a vertical plane due to location of the building.
There is a wealth of technology out there that can be utilised or modified to get you where you want to be or close to it and if you have a technical background (I used to write the repair and technical manuals for Goodmans, Hinari, Red Devil and Alba), most things are achievable...
I am not knocking anyone on this website, but for what I have and what I have paid to achieve it, I think it is money well spent and as it is my money to spend, it is my choice regardless of your opinion. I had to pay out for the customisation, I had to pay out to re-inforce the roof and then for the company to fit them. As I said, the money is worthless sitting in the bank, but the investment of the money in my house have made the EPC go from an E47/E41 to a D57/B83 so far.
There is more to do as I recently found out that Thames Water will DISCOUNT down your sewage charges on your water bill for water put back into the ground instead of the sewer system, therefore, as I am about to embark on the construction of a single storey extension on the side of the house, I am going to dig up the front garden and drop in a soakaway for the rainwater off the extension, but also put a 100 litre tank in the roof of the extension that will collect rain water from the main house and use this to flush the toilets...
Any other suggestions or idea for reducing energy bills, water rates etc very welcome.
- Reaction score
- 205
Good stuff. You sound like you knew what you wanted and arranged to get it done. Customer satisfaction is always top priority and you were prepared to pay extra for a non-standard installation. That's great.
Brick in the toilet cistern? Foil behind radiators? Hot water cylinder jacket? Thicker curtains? - Simple (and cheap) measures which help.
Brick in the toilet cistern? Foil behind radiators? Hot water cylinder jacket? Thicker curtains? - Simple (and cheap) measures which help.
E
essexrs
The Toilet Cisterns I have already changed to give dual flush and they are smaller/slimmer models that use less water.
The radiators I had changed when I fitted the new 'A' rated condensing boiler, the back of them are pre-treated so give the same effect as your suggestion (that I had done on the old ones).
Yes, someone told me about the curtains so the new ones are nice and thick and fully lined.
All nice simple ideas though.
S
Silly Sausage
I'd have to turn every light MCB off, every light on in the house at 9 this morning!!!
E
essexrs
Ha ha, that's funny, I don't have kids so don't have that problem, however all the new interior doors are fire doors and fitted with fire chains to close automatically so when the electrician was doing the re-wire, we fitted all the rooms with door jam switches...
intriguing.
Did you have any problems with planning permission for that?
We've had a look at doing something similar in the past but didn't think we'd be likely to get planning permisson for anything that made any sort of a worthwhile difference, and anything that stuck within the 200mm from the roof face permitted development regulations wasn't going to be worthwhile. I guess the picture on this might change slightly for in roof mounted kit as you've potentially got a few more cm to play with, depending on what you interpret the roof face as being in this situation.
Did you have any problems with planning permission for that?
We've had a look at doing something similar in the past but didn't think we'd be likely to get planning permisson for anything that made any sort of a worthwhile difference, and anything that stuck within the 200mm from the roof face permitted development regulations wasn't going to be worthwhile. I guess the picture on this might change slightly for in roof mounted kit as you've potentially got a few more cm to play with, depending on what you interpret the roof face as being in this situation.
S
sedgy34
Pics please
OP
- Reaction score
- 127
I tried telling them Greg and Otto Barker would get them if they left the lights on but that just gave them nightmares...
E
Earthstore
I have followed this thread with intrigue, I do feel that one or two may have come across as a little bit harsh, which for this forum is a shame, sign of the times maybe?
I believe it is commendable of the OP to have tried to "do something different" but I do except that he may have stretched the rules a little, but if it pays him dividends then what is the problem?
In reply to an earlier post I would like to clarify that the government do not pay the FIT's, they have tried to fool the public into believing this, but then this is part of the politics involved in it all, hence my departure from the renewables industry, just could not work with all of the politics....
FIT's are paid by the energy companies, which in turn are/will be paid for by the consumers, it will be listed soon as a separate item on your bills, but I believe it will be for all types of generation not just solar PV.
I believe it is commendable of the OP to have tried to "do something different" but I do except that he may have stretched the rules a little, but if it pays him dividends then what is the problem?
In reply to an earlier post I would like to clarify that the government do not pay the FIT's, they have tried to fool the public into believing this, but then this is part of the politics involved in it all, hence my departure from the renewables industry, just could not work with all of the politics....
FIT's are paid by the energy companies, which in turn are/will be paid for by the consumers, it will be listed soon as a separate item on your bills, but I believe it will be for all types of generation not just solar PV.
- Reaction score
- 723
I respectfully disagree. With the title of this thread, the gun barrell that we're all looking down and the Daily Mail tone of the contributor's post - I think I have been less than harsh.
But my patience with this thread has worn thin now - I'm looking forward to the pictures.
S
sedgy34
Funny you should mention it we are looking at the idea too payback 4 yrs
E
essexrs
Dear oh dear, with an attitude like that no wonder the forums are not that busy - Daily Mail reader, give me a break, I don't read any newspaper as I prefer to read 'NEWS' not someones opinion of the news or celebrity gossip...
Look, I posted a thread and had a couple of you jump down my throat - I have neither insulted anyone, derided anyone or abused anyone - get a grip SolarCity, you are starting to sound bitter...!
I will post the pics when I find time to take them, until that time, take a chill pill as the images are going to prove my point...
- Reaction score
- 723
I didn't say you were a Daily Mail reader. I suggested that you had a Daily Mail attitude. Your attitude towards green energy appears to be that it is a waste of money - that green taxes are a waste and a drain on people.
This thread, on a trade forum, is about people going bust - ie, contributors to this forum - if it surprises you that I am bitter when a climate skeptic appears on the forum and cheerily suggests that the government did the right thing then I can only assume that you're not being serious.
Try going on to a police forum and suggesting that cuts to their service is a good thing and see what response you get.
The images will certainly be interesting - but it won't prove any point. It'll just show that you have an incredibly impressive PV system.
C
confounded
I for one have been following this thread and have been uneasy about the responses you have received. I am very interested in the system you clearly put a lot of thought into to get installed. Price wise it was expensive but your system specification dictated that, we installed a standard SunPower system (most expensive on the market) around that time and it was similar in price without any of the tracking technology.
Also when you post the pictures if you can give some details on how the planners responded to this technology it would be very helpful.
E
essexrs
Is that the U.S. Sunpower or the UK COmpany? I know the U.S. COmpany from my time in the states and in Laguna Beach virtually every system I saw being installed was a Sunpower System, can't speak for the UK Company as don't know if it's connected or the same systems on licence etc.
I checked with my local planning office as I was planning the extension on the house and as I was putting them on the Detached Garage, I needed no planning consent at all provided I kept to all the rules about how they are fitted/installed and by a registered authorised company. The attidude of the planners was that they were actively encouraging residents to install them and consideration was only required if the building was in one of the designated conservation areas or a listed building....
C
confounded
It is the US SunPower, they were quite late to the UK market only getting their MCS accreditation in October last year. You need to be an approved partner to install them. They are a very good panel although you do pay for it. Some very impressive real life data coming back on them that goes a long way to justifying the extra expense, regarding yield and panel degradation over time.
One of the requirements of PV's permitted development is that the panels are mounted in the same plane of the roof (in anticipation of fixed roof mounting systems to tilt panels toward the optimum directions and causing aesthetic issues. So the reason for the interest in your system is that presumably when the panels tilt they will be out of plane of the roof? As you say the planners have been very supportive of PV and it is unlikely anyone will pull you up on it, but this is why it is of interest to us installers if it was to become a commonly used method to boost yield.
E
essexrs
That's good news if it's the U.S. Company, they are really rated in the U.S...
I advised the planning dept of the fact these would move vertically off the plane but it was the fact it was being fitted to the detached garage that is not viewed from the road that was the clincher, I think had the garage been attached to the house and visible from the road, then they might have given me a hard time or refused... I have always found with planning depts if you are straight up about what you want to do, they will assist you a great deal.... when I first built the detached garage, technically it needed no planning as 'permitted' development, not being over 4.2mtres etc, but I still checked to make sure - they came round, measured up the land and size of current house and said, 'Yes, no problem as with the additional building it will still only be 28% of the land space which is why I am adding the side extension as that will take it up to 35%, well within the 50% limit.
C
confounded
Hopefully they become well rated here as well, certainly seem in a different league to any other panel currently on the market.
Good to hear with full knowledge of how the system will function that the planners were still happy. As you say always best to run things past them.
Would love to see time laps photos of your systems in action. How has the system performed since it was installed given it has had the bulk of the generating season already (fingers crossed for a summer next year!)
E
essexrs
Well they went live on 1 March 2012 and despite the fact we have had the worse spring/summer/autumn I can remember in my lifetime, so far they have cut my direct debit in half and for the first 2 qtrs I have received approx £285 for March-May, £655 for Jun-August and with November being the end of the 3rd quarter, I am expecting around £300 based on my daily readings. I would expect a similar £285-£300 for the period Jan-Mar 2012 so expecting roughly of £1,500 or thereabouts this first year. This would mean with no improvement in weather this would produce FIT to cover the costs of £13,500 within 9yrs.
Of course I have to take into account my Electric Bills have dropped between £40-50pm on my Direct Debit, so that is another £480 - £600 pa making a total of £1,980 per annum income/savings reducing 'pay-back' time to 6-7 yrs. As the panels should be good for 15-20yrs, even allowing for 'drop-off', if I say they are useless by year 15, I will have 6yrs of around £2,000pa tax free, that is making £10-£12K overall profit over the life of the panels or £18-20K if they last the full 20yrs. You have to try and calculate 'drop-off' against increased FIT rates in line with inflation so not an exact 'science' but it does give a good indication.
I have devised a spreadsheet that carries the tarrifs and then calculates income based on the daily readings inserted. It then calculates the 'average' daily generation, that was until October around 10.5kW hrs per day, this has dropped now to about 9.2 kW hrs per day. Once I have the full 12 months, it will give me a good daily 'average' over the year with a total FIT income...
Reply to Anyone gone bust yet? in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
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