bonding of main water plastic incoming

Discuss bonding of main water plastic incoming in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

J

jimmy

This topic drives me nuts.
Do I need to main bond.
Property is 2 years old and wasnt done but my foreman wants it done.
Plastic income to stopcock under sink. Runs from stop cock to kitchen sink and boiler above that in copper and washing machine. 3 m ish in total of copper.
Rest of plumbing in plastic
 
Hi jimmy. welcome to the forum.
Have you tried doing a search for this bonding question? It has been asked quite a few times.
I know my comments dont sound helpful but do a search first.
 
IR test the copper to the MET . as long as the reading is >22kohms, it's not extraneous. must be over 100 posts with this subject done to death.
 
better still. make plastic out of plumbers.
 
44ALLAN said:
Poor Golliwog and Milky bar kid got the axe though !!

Idiots:crazy:
Click to expand...

Do you remember the the Golliwogs on the jars of jam?

If you collected the labels (can't remember how many) and posted them to the jam maker, they would send you an enamelled badge of the Golliwog.
 
i remember them. i had a few enamel badges as a kid. also has an esso tiger tail on my bike.
 
All this ir test from met to water pipe is nonsense, the pipe is full of water an is connected to your neighbours property, whose water pipe is either connected to an equipotential bond or an earthed immersion and boiler which is in turn connected to met and back to transformer, I have never done this test and won the saving of my 10mm and earth clamp, bond it, tick it on the form n forget it
 
All this ir test from met to water pipe is nonsense, the pipe is full of water an is connected to your neighbours property, whose water pipe is either connected to an equipotential bond or an earthed immersion and boiler which is in turn connected to met and back to transformer, I have never done this test and won the saving of my 10mm and earth clamp, bond it, tick it on the form n forget it.

Yup well done mate...............you need to patent that idea to be honest.
Street equipotential bonding............could be a winner mate go with it !

Watch out for plastic incomers at your neighbors tho u might kill your kids:)
Harsh but true I'm afraid:(
 
SBSB said:
No, if incomer is plastic then the plumbing is not classed as an extraneous conductive part.
Click to expand...

Only a test can confirm whether something is an extraneous conductive part or not, plastic may not be conductive but the water inside it is!

It's this type of attitude that gets on my jubblies!
 
Thanks mr. Skelton , sounds like Alan was away from school on electrical conductivity day, like to see him do an ir test under water, you bond it at 600 or at the most accessible part even if its a small section going in to the megaflow, you still need ADS when the immersion heater shorts to earth!, don't fancy getting into the bath when that happens or is water not conductive now?
 
Lol..........dear me:)

Can I invest in this water earth clamp you've patented ffs lmao !

Just to clarify btw.
You would bond a plastic pipe because it had water in it?

mmmmmm nice one mate I like it :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
44ALLAN said:
Just to clarify btw.
You would bond a plastic pipe because it had water in it?
Click to expand...

Of course not, but SBSB said if the incomer is plastic then the PLUMBING isn't an extraneous conductive part. I would test the metal pipework nearest to the connection to the plastic incomer and if extraneous; bond.
 
The big problem with the 22k IR test has already been pointed out......parallel paths. Even disconnecting earth wires from boilers and immersion heaters etc might not eliminate them. The gas pipe will be connected to the boiler intoducing a parallel path,do you disconnect that?
I've given up with IR testing copper fed from plastic to confirm if it is an ECP,only if I can visually confirm that the copper has no possibility of PP's would I bother. Otherwise unless the copper is very short I assume it's going to be extraneous and bond.
 
D Skelton said:
Of course not, but SBSB said if the incomer is plastic then the PLUMBING isn't an extraneous conductive part. I would test the metal pipework nearest to the connection to the plastic incomer and if extraneous; bond.
Click to expand...

Sorry mate that wasn't directed at you lol
 
D Skelton said:
Just remove the main earthing conductor from the MET as if you were measuring Ze and test between that (the earth) and the pipe. No parallell paths then.
Click to expand...

Yes there are. You are likely to get parallel paths from other extraneous services such as gas/oil which are mechanically connected to the same system as the water via boilers etc and not practical to remove.Disconnecting main earths and bonds still does not eliminate misleading readings.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That's assuming other services have been bonded, which if they have and it is affecting the water then bonding it anyway isn't going to do any harm. If the bonds are affecting the water so much that you get a 0.05 - 0.06 reading then some would argue that it would be safe to assume a bond is already in place and to leave it and crack on.
 
A local firm in my area have just had the nic crawling all over them because they didn't run a main bond to the water main. Incoming pipe was plastic covered copper, rest of houses in plastic (scheme).
I would still run a bond and connect it on to the stop valve, this would satisfy the sheets, regs, and any electrician who looks at it.
 
drew35 said:
If told to do it by the foreman do it and when questioned say that Mo Fo told me to do it!
Click to expand...

Do you do everything a foreman tells you to do??? :)
 
D Skelton said:
That's assuming other services have been bonded, which if they have and it is affecting the water then bonding it anyway isn't going to do any harm. If the bonds are affecting the water so much that you get a 0.05 - 0.06 reading then some would argue that it would be safe to assume a bond is already in place and to leave it and crack on.
Click to expand...

You miss the point mate,existing bonding has nothing to do with it. If a gas pipe (for example) is extraneous,it will be at earth potential or thereabouts whether it is bonded or not.There is likely to be some electrical continuity to the water system via mechanical connection between pipework at a boiler even with all bonds/earth disconnected. Thats why the IR test to establish whether bonding is required is nearly always misleading.....(IMO!)
 
wirepuller said:
You miss the point mate,existing bonding has nothing to do with it. If a gas pipe (for example) is extraneous,it will be at earth potential or thereabouts whether it is bonded or not.There is likely to be some electrical continuity to the water system via mechanical connection between pipework at a boiler even with all bonds/earth disconnected. Thats why the IR test to establish whether bonding is required is nearly always misleading.....(IMO!)
Click to expand...

No, I'm not missing the point, instead I am agreeing lol.

Misleading readings possible but no harm done if bonded anyway :)
 
kevyn said:
A local firm in my area have just had the nic crawling all over them because they didn't run a main bond to the water main. Incoming pipe was plastic covered copper, rest of houses in plastic (scheme).
I would still run a bond and connect it on to the stop valve, this would satisfy the sheets, regs, and any electrician who looks at it.
Click to expand...

If the incomer is copper it's almost certainly extraneous and needs bonding regardless of the rest of the install being plastic.
 
The more I read these threads regarding bonding, I can fully understand why, when the 15th was around nearly everything was bonded (within reason, may I add, some people went way over the top) if in doubt bond, a few tenby earth clamps and a bit 10mm doesn't cost at lot in the average house. Seems now people are just getting more and more confused and doubtful as to bond or not to bond. lol
 
KAS1 said:
The more I read these threads regarding bonding, I can fully understand why, when the 15th was around nearly everything was bonded (within reason, may I add, some people went way over the top) if in doubt bond, a few tenby earth clamps and a bit 10mm doesn't cost at lot in the average house. Seems now people are just getting more and more confused and doubtful as to bond or not to bond. lol
Click to expand...

Agree.
99% of the confusion results from a failure to understand the meaning of the terms 'extraneous conductive parts' and 'conductive parts' and that bondings only function is to prevent the possibility of a PD between the two. It doesnt help that bonding is always discussed/described in conjunction with the term 'earthing' when the purposes of bonding and earthing are entirely separate. It's a simple concept,and it never ceases to amaze me how many electricians still dont get it.
 
is this better?

由於這是新興技術，有沒有共同的人知道它。但畢竟它已經發生的條件是如此不同。然而，有一個小的成功，但沒有足夠的實驗
 
Steve007 said:
As this is new emerging technology and there is no common person know to it. But after it has happen, the conditions could be so different. Yet there is a little success but not enough to experiment publicaly.
Click to expand...

An excellent point and very well made. (for an Australian)

Now go and play with your didgeridoo and leave us in peace to contemplate our navels.
 
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