Change in the Law regarding RCDs in Rental Properties

[Spazz]

I have been in contact with my local AM about the need for a legal requirement for all rental properties to contain RCDs to protect against electric shock, she fully agrees with myself that this is a requirement which needs to be brought inline with the requirements that are imposed with Gas Safety.

I have the backing of the Electrical Safety Council with this, and now looking for the backing of all the members on here as well.

Please visit https://www.------------/pages/Electrical-Safety/434757336534379 and like this page.

This is now being put in front of the Welsh Housing Minister to get this imposed in Wales, then we will be looking at UK wide.

Your backing would be greatly appreciated with this


Admins please sticky this

 

[FatBob]

Pulling this back on topic, until someone invents a better device than a RCBO I will continue to fit them on every final circuit where I can. We are all responsible for the circuit that is connected to this, and if you want to end up in court, working on rented accommodation is a good place to improve your chances. You will be asked the reasons for the design and work you have carried out in great detail. Cost is never on a courts agenda; looking after the tenants best interests will be.

Decent Landlords generally understand their obligations, and I find, will let you fit or upgrade to, the safest, and lowest maintenance installation possible.

 

[Spazz]

For latest updates on this matter please visit the facebook page where you will find a few letters received from Local Authority Public Protection Department.

I will be approaching all Local Authorities in England over the next few weeks so keep an eye on the Facebook page to see what your local authority's views are!

https://www.------------/pages/Electrical-Safety/434757336534379

 

[Guest123]

And for those of us that find Facebook abhorrent???

 

[Spazz]

Sorry all letters are posted on there - create a facebook account and keep track.

At the moment its just letters and replies on there from different LAs.

Im waiting for the response from what my AM and MP are doing now on my behalf then I will post them on here.

 

[Guest123]

I would rather eat my own face than create a facebook account.

Sorry.

 

[Spazz]

Thats fine Lenny - anything big I will be posting it on here.

Where you from Lenny as I see your SW

 

[Spazz]

I just tried the link when not logged into facebook and it loads fine - so try going clicking the link below and you should see the page.
https://www.------------/pages/Electrical-Safety/434757336534379?ref=notif&notif_t=page_new_likes

 

[Guest123]

Where you from Lenny as I see your SW

Not a million miles away from you byt the look of it.

Was down in Dale today infact. Lovely view of the refinery across the bay.

 

[Spark1979]

I have just seen this several times on the ESC website and their documents:

"Landlords of a House in Multiple Occupation (HMO), have a legal obligation to have a periodic inspection carried out on the HMO property every 5 years."

I am in agreement that landlords should be enforced to have safe properties but as stated above a periodic must be done every 5 years for licencing on HMO. I tested houses in 2007 failed them, now i am going back to fail them again 5 years on, on an EICR nothing gets done, the councils are supposed to enforce this but dont, they've inspected the properties. Ask a landlord about a gas CP12 failure, they jump through hoops to get those sorted ASAP​

 

[spark 68]

Oh I agree with part of what Nicholas was saying,

I did not disagree nor agree with everything suggested, but what I had resrevations about was introducing more new legislation, it would be better IMHO to better enforce the legislation that already exists.

As we have seen the dog's breakfast that part P turned out to be.

 

[Spazz]

In regards to what Darrenburton has said, what is happening in Wales is all rental properties will need to be licensed - this will require EICRs to be submitted! Any problems outlined on these (mainly C1 and C2) will be required to be repaired.

As I have said on previous posts if you have any C1 problems issue a EDN and send a copy over to the Public Protection Department for your LA. Some of these landlords dont pull their finger out until they are made to by the LA.

The problem is not the system! if it was the system then Gas would have the same problems - but that doesn't does it? - NO!
A Gas safe engineer has the same rights as we do!
The only difference is that a Gas Safe Engineer reports problems to someone who can do something about it! - we dont!

Things wont change until we change.

Part P is not the Problem - we are! - if something is dangerous then reporting it to the landlord - is that really going to make a difference - maybe - maybe not! - If we report it to the LAPP (Public Protection) then would this make a difference - YES!

If the landlord does not fix it then LAPP will bring them to court and the landlord will have to explain to the wigs why that issue you said was not safe the said landlord didn't think it warranted sorting out!

Also in regards to Bonding - I have see that its C2 - how is this when if a fault occurred - this will kill someone! It is also stated that NO WORK IS TO BE UNDERTAKEN UNTIL ALL BONDING IS ADEQUATE!
I know this is our regs - recommendations - but the question is how do you rate this?

- - - Updated - - -

Oh Ya - Lenny your mail box is full - empty it please!

 

[Guest123]

Done....

 

[UNG]

Things wont change until we change.

Part P is not the Problem - we are! - if something is dangerous then reporting it to the landlord - is that really going to make a difference - maybe - maybe not! - If we report it to the LAPP (Public Protection) then would this make a difference - YES!

You have it wrong WE ( Qualified electricians ) are not the problem Part P is an ill thought out piece of legislation that allows partially qualified operatives to masquerade as electricians and is a problem

With regard to reporting it to all and sundry I am an electrician, I am not a policeman time is money and reporting it and filing paperwork and any follow up from LAPP will be time consuming and most of all UNPAID.

The problem we have is the certification we use does not clearly indicate to the untrained the state of the installation, this is IMO what needs changing and a cover sheet that identifies Good, Dangerous or advisory work needed by colour coding or large clear wording or both would go some way to address the problem

Personally if you want to be out of work shop your landlord customers to the LA and they won't use you again.

To be honest a lot of people place a lot of faith in an RCD or RCBO actually working when it's needed even though it never tested every few months by the occupier as the labels on the CU suggest. I was always taught to design the installation protection correctly and use RCD's to provide secondary protection where needed

 

[spark 68]

^^^^^^

Exactly! mate,

What would help is, if the councils actually acted on the EICR's, and DEMANDED that any non-conformances (C1/C2) were actually remedied.
Then made sure the inspections were carried out every 5 years max with possibly a couple of random spot checks, then we may be getting somewhere.
Not by piling any more crap on us with more ill thought out legislation, and more hoops to jump through.
As I said, the legislation is already there if needed, but this is too much hard work for the LABC, so I would not hold my breath.

 

[Guitarist]

And for those of us that find Facebook abhorrent???

Facebook is the scourge of our era. I bet in years to come it will be likened to the invention that started the creation of the Terminators.....

 

[Spazz]

If you forward all EDNs to LAPP they dont contact you unless you request it! It takes less than 2 mins!

You say if you want to be out of work - this is what Gas does and they are still in work!

Plus how many of these landlords actually act on your recommendations - some but not all - the ones who act on your recommendations do you really need to fill in a EDN - NO!
Only those who dont act on your recommendations within a set time need to be reported to LAPP.

Like I said they problem is us!

Plus in regards the untrained are not a problem - yes they take work off us - but thats our personal problem!
When they do it right its fine - when they do it wrong you issue a EDN or advisory and that gets reported to LAPP - same thing!

The bigger problem is that some of us are willing to sign off work that we have not done! or seen done!

In Gas the home owner can do his own work and report it to the LABC - SAME AS WITH ELECTRIC!

The only difference is that the gas engineers dont stand by and allow dangerous installs to remain in houses - some of us do because we dont want the agro, because we dont want to fill in a form for free. THE PROBLEM IS OUR ATTITUDE!

Yes in an ideal world only trained and licensed persons will do the work - those who blame the system should be looking at themselves first!

 

[Mark_Burgess]

As I have said on previous posts if you have any C1 problems issue a EDN and send a copy over to the Public Protection Department for your LA. Some of these landlords dont pull their finger out until they are made to by the LA.

Part P is not the Problem - we are! - if something is dangerous then reporting it to the landlord - is that really going to make a difference - maybe - maybe not! - If we report it to the LAPP (Public Protection) then would this make a difference - YES!

If the landlord does not fix it then LAPP will bring them to court and the landlord will have to explain to the wigs why that issue you said was not safe the said landlord didn't think it warranted sorting out!

When I carry out an EICR and it is unsatisfactory, I will give the customer a quote to put it right. They have the freedom to choose whoever they like, I may not not know if it has been rectified.
Are you suggesting that every EICR that is unsatisfactory, must be reported to the LAPP with immediate effect?
Or that we keep asking the customer if it has been rectified? Or state that if they have not done it by a certain deadline they will be reported?

Bad reputation spreads faster than a good one, i'd be branded a grass and find myself at Tesco or Asda working in no time!

 

[Spazz]

^^^^^^

Exactly! mate,

What would help is, if the councils actually acted on the EICR's, and DEMANDED that any non-conformances (C1/C2) were actually remedied.
Then made sure the inspections were carried out every 5 years max with possibly a couple of random spot checks, then we may be getting somewhere.
Not by piling any more crap on us with more ill thought out legislation, and more hoops to jump through.
As I said, the legislation is already there if needed, but this is too much hard work for the LABC, so I would not hold my breath.

LABC dont have anything to do with existing installations - LAPP are - they carry out regular checks, but they dont know what they are looking for so all they check is has the property got a BS3036 CU or NO RCD - they can only recommend!

The problem is once the EICR is a legal document then and only then they can enforce it!
They cant demand that the home owner has an EICR until it becomes law - they cant take it to court so nothing can be done.

However the law states that the installation must be safe - so if we find it unsafe then we need to report it because the LAPP cant test it - so they wont know.

Only once its law the LAPP can demand a copy of the EICR and take action on it. Those LAs who request a copy of it is only requesting the landlord can say no - I dont need one by law and the LA cant do anything about it!

Check the emails on the facebook and it will open your eyes!


One of 2 things needs to happen:
1. We report all dangerous installs to LAPP
2. Law needs to change so the LAPP can see the EICR and act on it. - then its down to us to make sure they are filled in correctly!

 

[Spazz]

When I carry out an EICR and it is unsatisfactory, I will give the customer a quote to put it right. They have the freedom to choose whoever they like, I may not not know if it has been rectified.
Are you suggesting that every EICR that is unsatisfactory, must be reported to the LAPP with immediate effect?
Or that we keep asking the customer if it has been rectified? Or state that if they have not done it by a certain deadline they will be reported?

Bad reputation spreads faster than a good one, i'd be branded a grass and find myself at Tesco or Asda working in no time!

This is the problem! only dangerous situations needs to be reported!
If everyone started to report these dangerous situations then you wont be classed as a grass! because it will be everyone going it!

Lets see what happens - out of interest if EICRs are not made law but it was law you had to report all dangerous situations to LAPP would you?

 

[rufus10]

Good idea but as has been said all through this thread, you will never get anyone to enforce it.