Changing Electric Meter !

[waitees]

Hi all

We carried out a job a couple of months ago on an old Victorian house, now converted into five flats, it was badly in need of a Ryefield board and switches.

The cupboard was a bit of a squeeze, for a fire panel and small landlord board.

We found the meters a bit of a squeeze (Big old style) and the customer has asked for these to be upgraded to digital.

Four of them were changed and all the new numbers were given to the suppliers, my god what a mistake.

They are now saying as we are not an approved meter installer, they are trying to charge £450 for one of the meters which is British Gas.

Now we had this before in the past and the meter was dangerous, so we installed one provided by the wholesaler, give the numbers job done, no problem.

But i am quickly finding out this is the biggest mistake, in changing them over.

I am looking to see if anyone has been in this situation before, NICEIC say its a grey area !!

any help would be extremely grateful !

 

[Plonker 3]

So you removed DNO equipment without their authorisation? What did you expect.

 

[Stu1312]

So you removed a settlement meter that is the property of the meter operator/supplier without permission and changed it for another meter?

They are well within their right to charge you for that. Only the appointed meter operator is allowed to replace that meter, if there was a dangerous situation you needed to contact them.

It might of been a headache getting it sorted but unfortunately I think you will be stuck with a bill now.

 

[Plonker 3]

If it is DNO eauipment, the the response from NICEIC goes to show just how much they dont know.

 

[trev]

As Dillb said, the meters are not your toy to play with, nor your clients. You should have, at the very least, tried to obtain permission to do what you did.

 

[sparks123]

i dont think so he its electrician..i cant imagine qualified electricians dont know the meter its '' do not touch them at all ''..

 

[Geordie Spark]

So you removed a settlement meter that is the property of the meter operator/supplier without permission and changed it for another meter?

They are well within their right to charge you for that. Only the appointed meter operator is allowed to replace that meter, if there was a dangerous situation you needed to contact them.

It might of been a headache getting it sorted but unfortunately I think you will be stuck with a bill now.

Should have smacked the thing with yer biggest hammer and told them it was already like that when you arrived on the job.

 

[Knobhead]

As Dillb said, the meters are not your toy to play with, nor your clients. You should have, at the very least, tried to obtain permission to do what you did.

Does that mean I've got to put my meter back?

 

[trev]

Does that mean I've got to put my meter back?

You're not really getting this fiddling the meter lark are you? You're not supposed to put it forward, that costs you.

 

[Geordie Spark]

You're not really getting this fiddling the meter lark are you? You're not supposed to put it forward, that costs you.

OOPSSS!!! .............. That reminds me ..... :uhoh2:

 

[Knobhead]

Walked in to that

 

[Geordie Spark]

Walked in to that

Ambushed and mugged ..... by the Geordies - again!!

 

[Prat P]

So you removed a settlement meter that is the property of the meter operator/supplier without permission and changed it for another meter?

They are well within their right to charge you for that. Only the appointed meter operator is allowed to replace that meter, if there was a dangerous situation you needed to contact them.

It might of been a headache getting it sorted but unfortunately I think you will be stuck with a bill now.

From the outgoing tails on the meter onwards is where we are authorised to touch,a fine might seem over the top but at the end of the day you blatantly disregarded the rules.

 

[davesparks]

A customer is legally allowed to supply their own meter as long as it meets the right standards.
But you can't remove the one belonging to the meter operator if there is a meter already fitted.

 

[Engineer54]

I just can't believe that an electrician would remove DNO property meters and replace with their own. I'm surprised they aren't bringing charges against you to be honest. For all they know, you could have been stealing electricity for X amount of time before informing them.... There is no ''grey area'' here, You are in the Wrong End Of!! Think twice and then once again before doing it again!!!

The DNO via the meter company would i imagine be only too pleased to change out the old meters for new digital models, they are all being changed out nationwide anyway. They are supposedly more accurate and have data communication facilities and hence will bring in more money. Will the meters you provided have data communication facilities, ...i don't know, but not being to DNO spec models, i suspect not!!

 

[Knobhead]

I am looking to see if anyone has been in this situation before

We’ve got some numpties on here. But I think non are so stupid as to think they can just change the supply meter without repercussions.

any help would be extremely grateful !

Any help? You’re on your own pal!

Get ready for a bill for each of the meters. If you’re lucky they may settle for £450 each but I wouldn’t bank on it.

Keep us informed of how you go on :waving:

 

[amckay]

The meter has got naff all to do with the DNO, all the dno own is the cables from transformers to properties.
They can't have you in court for it either.
The owner of the meter is usually labeled on the meter itself and when customer changes suppliers etc the meters are "rented" by the suppliers.
Tell them to stick the bill where the sun doesn't shine your a qualified spark with more knowledge, experience and qualifications that their "approved meter installers"
Along as the meter installed meets current standards then there shouldn't be an issue

 

[Rockingit]

The meter has got naff all to do with the DNO, all the dno own is the cables from transformers to properties.
They can't have you in court for it either.
The owner of the meter is usually labeled on the meter itself and when customer changes suppliers etc the meters are "rented" by the suppliers.
Tell them to stick the bill where the sun doesn't shine your a qualified spark with more knowledge, experience and qualifications that their "approved meter installers"
Along as the meter installed meets current standards then there shouldn't be an issue

You been on the loopy juice mate? The meter is very definitely 'owned' (in the virtual sense) by the energy supplier, end of story. The DNO own the incoming supply and bullet, the energy supplier owns the tails from the bullet to meter and the meter, tails from the right side of meter (normally themselves trapped by the meter security seal) belong to customer. This is basics!!!

 

[Pete999]

Hi all

We carried out a job a couple of months ago on an old Victorian house, now converted into five flats, it was badly in need of a Ryefield board and switches.

The cupboard was a bit of a squeeze, for a fire panel and small landlord board.

We found the meters a bit of a squeeze (Big old style) and the customer has asked for these to be upgraded to digital.

Four of them were changed and all the new numbers were given to the suppliers, my god what a mistake.

They are now saying as we are not an approved meter installer, they are trying to charge £450 for one of the meters which is British Gas.

Now we had this before in the past and the meter was dangerous, so we installed one provided by the wholesaler, give the numbers job done, no problem.

But i am quickly finding out this is the biggest mistake, in changing them over.

I am looking to see if anyone has been in this situation before, NICEIC say its a grey area !!

any help would be extremely grateful !

No mate the NICEIC is a grey area

 

[Engineer54]

My mistake about who owns the meter, it's bloody confusing to me since they privatised the old Regional Electricity Boards etc.... But the fact remains, the meters are not to be tampered with in any shape or form by numbty electricians!! lol!!

 

[Knobhead]

Anyone seen the OP?

 

[Pete999]

Anyone seen the OP?

Done a runner

 

[Andy78]

Possibly down the bank arranging a loan.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Anyone seen the OP?

Over the hills and far away with his arse in flames.

 

[Knobhead]

1/ The owner of the meter is usually labeled on the meter itself

2/ your a qualified spark with more knowledge,

1/ Regardless of who the meter belongs to, it wasn’t his or the landlords to change. If there’s financial repercussions he can only blame himself.

2/ Are you sure about that? He’s not shown any sign of being knowledgeable, from where I’m looking he would seem to be incredibly stupid.

 

[Prat P]

1/ Regardless of who the meter belongs to, it wasn’t his or the landlords to change. If there’s financial repercussions he can only blame himself.

2/ Are you sure about that? He’s not shown any sign of being knowledgeable, from where I’m looking he would seem to be incredibly stupid.

I agree,he has made a mistake and once you know its wrong it will always be wrong no matter what anyone posts in your defence,I distnctly recall my days in college and where you are told in no uncertain terms what part of the installation you are permitted to work on..
The meter is not the property of the premises in most cases so don't interfere with it,a first year electrician would not make the second year if he failed to understand this,why is a supposedly qualified spark trying to play dumb?

 

[Knobhead]

I’ve just had a read of the OP’s previously started threads. The guys a DI, (Disaster Immanent). The started threads are a litany of incompetence.

 

[driverman]

How the OP removed a meter before and merely informed the supplier with readings etc is way beyond me to understand. It's just a no no no full stop. God knows what would happen if installed meter went up in smoke! Who claim ownership then?

 

[7029 dave]

Oi you are doing me out of an job, hands off not yours to touch.

 

[amckay]

I asked a question similar a while ago, just got told its a no no, without an explanation why or what law it breaks.
To me saying an electrician can't change an electricity meter is stupid, its like telling a kitchen fitter not to put in extra sockets!
7029Dave could you point me in the direction of what law/reg says we can't? I understand new meters have to meet certain requirements to be put into service tho

 

[trev]

Because it's someone else's property. You can't mess about with the property of others without their permission.

 

[Pete999]

I asked a question similar a while ago, just got told its a no no, without an explanation why or what law it breaks.
To me saying an electrician can't change an electricity meter is stupid, its like telling a kitchen fitter not to put in extra sockets!

Well he shouldn't should he, the kitchen fitter that is

 

[7029 dave]

I asked a question similar a while ago, just got told its a no no, without an explanation why or what law it breaks.
To me saying an electrician can't change an electricity meter is stupid, its like telling a kitchen fitter not to put in extra sockets!
7029Dave could you point me in the direction of what law/reg says we can't? I understand new meters have to meet certain requirements to be put into service tho

www.mocopa.org.uk/, take a look.

 

[mechelec]

My old meter is electro/mechanical and the numbers on the dial are really adding up since I started a bit of in house horticulture. Would it be ok for me to fit my own meter as I guess it would start again at zero.

 

[Tidy Max]

I asked a question similar a while ago, just got told its a no no, without an explanation why or what law it breaks.

To me saying an electrician can't change an electricity meter is stupid, its like telling a kitchen fitter not to put in extra sockets!
7029Dave could you point me in the direction of what law/reg says we can't? I understand new meters have to meet certain requirements to be put into service tho

Why would a kitchen fitter be fitting extra sockets? I wouldn't go fitting a kitchen just because the sockets i were installing were in one!

 

[Pete999]

Why would a kitchen fitter be fitting extra sockets? I wouldn't go fitting a kitchen just because the sockets i were installing were in one!

Can you explain that a bit better

 

[Tidy Max]

Probably not my English is terrible.

I was trying to say, a kitchen fitter should be expected to fit sockets as much as i should be expected to fit a kitchen.

Kitchen fitter fits kitchen.
Electrician fits sockets.

 

[Andy78]

I'd go one better and tell the kitchen fitter that he shouldn't be installing sockets, then go and fit a kitchen, better than he could.

 

[Plonker 3]

Probably not my English is terrible.

I was trying to say, a kitchen fitter should be expected to fit sockets as much as i should be expected to fit a kitchen.

Kitchen fitter fits kitchen.
Electrician fits sockets.

So you have never done a job that someone else is trained to do?

 

[amckay]

I asked a question similar a while ago, just got told its a no no, without an explanation why or what law it breaks.
To me saying an electrician can't change an electricity meter is stupid, its like telling a kitchen fitter not to put in extra sockets!
7029Dave could you point me in the direction of what law/reg says we can't? I understand new meters have to meet certain requirements to be put into service tho

www.mocopa.org.uk/, take a look.

So just an agreement with guidelines?
Anyone can make departures from bs7671 provided that the departure/s do not impair the safety of the installation.
Now I'm not "trained" to install meters but the state of some of the tails I've seen (exposed copper conductors showing) not being terminated properly and with stamped security seals still in place, I'd go as far as saying these meter fitters are a disgrace and shouldn't even be allowed to look at a screwdriver let alone touch one

 

[amckay]

Can anyone provide any information of any electrician who has ever been convicted of "interference of a meter" for just replacing an old one with a new meter that met the standards? I severely doubt it.

 

[7029 dave]

So just an agreement with guidelines?
Anyone can make departures from bs7671 provided that the departure/s do not impair the safety of the installation.
Now I'm not "trained" to install meters but the state of some of the tails I've seen (exposed copper conductors showing) not being terminated properly and with stamped security seals still in place, I'd go as far as saying these meter fitters are a disgrace and shouldn't even be allowed to look at a screwdriver let alone touch one

So what you have described, could it not be an case of tampering.?

 

[davesparks]

Can anyone provide any information of any electrician who has ever been convicted of "interference of a meter" for just replacing an old one with a new meter that met the standards? I severely doubt it.

Why don't you go and change a meter, then call the meter operator so they can come and collect the one you removed then see what they say?

 

[trev]

Can anyone provide any information of any electrician who has ever been convicted of "interference of a meter" for just replacing an old one with a new meter that met the standards? I severely doubt it.

Not a criminal case but how about this thread as an example of what can go wrong.

 

[amckay]

Probably the same script as the op, but I wouldn't pay it. I'd tell em to call HSE if they wanna know its safe and fit for continued use and I certainly wouldn't be paying them a single penny.

Not that I actually fit meters but its just a different angle of thought. There simply isn't a law to saw you can't do.
Think of it this way, its a legal requirement to be gas safe registered to work on combi boilers, but its not a legal requirement to have any kind of electrical qualification to be an electrician, but people do

 

[Knobhead]

So just an agreement with guidelines?
Anyone can make departures from bs7671 provided that the departure/s do not impair the safety of the installation.
Now I'm not "trained" to install meters but the state of some of the tails I've seen (exposed copper conductors showing) not being terminated properly and with stamped security seals still in place, I'd go as far as saying these meter fitters are a disgrace and shouldn't even be allowed to look at a screwdriver let alone touch one

Only things after the meter come under BS7671. You’re talking though your arse.

 

[amckay]

Can anyone provide any information of any electrician who has ever been convicted of "interference of a meter" for just replacing an old one with a new meter that met the standards? I severely doubt it.

Not a criminal case but how about this thread as an example of what can go wrong.

I completely agree trev, when people havnt got a clue what they're doing. That's why I support boycotting cps schemes and Electrical Trainee courses

 

[7029 dave]

Can anyone provide any information of any electrician who has ever been convicted of "interference of a meter" for just replacing an old one with a new meter that met the standards? I severely doubt it.

So what happens about the recertification of the meter you have just installed then, do you know what that means.?

 

[trev]

Probably the same script as the op, but I wouldn't pay it. I'd tell em to call HSE if they wanna know its safe and fit for continued use and I certainly wouldn't be paying them a single penny.

Then you'd have a CCJ to deal with. It's all well and good to spout off on here about what you would or wouldn't do but let me ask you this.
Will you move a meter for me?
If not, why not?

 

[amckay]

So just an agreement with guidelines?
Anyone can make departures from bs7671 provided that the departure/s do not impair the safety of the installation.
Now I'm not "trained" to install meters but the state of some of the tails I've seen (exposed copper conductors showing) not being terminated properly and with stamped security seals still in place, I'd go as far as saying these meter fitters are a disgrace and shouldn't even be allowed to look at a screwdriver let alone touch one

Only things after the meter come under BS767
1. You’re talking though your arse.

Sorry I didn't make my point clear. Bs7671 is a non statutory document, just like the link on Dave's post