Clipped surface

[growler]

Am I right in thinking a new circuit clipped on the surface doesn't require rcd protection ?

 

[Engineer54]

In most circumstances that would be a correct assumption!! lol!!

 

[telectrix]

yes....unless you need to use RCD for fault protection on a TT system and it's not feeding a socket outlet requiring RCD.

 

[growler]

its feeding a hall way socket

 

[telectrix]

so does the socket need to be rcd protected, even if the cable does not?

 

[Dizzy_Maskell]

Who's using the socket, what's its purpose location etc. For a new socket I would recommend RCD for sure regardless of if technically you "can get away without"

 

[growler]

Hall socket for router and probably Hoover.

 

[Guest111]

Hall socket for router and probably Hoover.

and lawnmower perhaps,personally I'd rcd it.

 

[telectrix]

RCD socket is simplest way.

 

[KFH]

You can always use an RCD socket if protecting the cable is a pain.

Tel is too quick!!!

 

[growler]

Rcd socket is gonna look ugly In your hallway though ?

 

[telectrix]

where does KFH come from? i assume it's not Kentucky Fried Hedgehog. :lol:

 

[KFH]

Horse! I could not see what all the fuss was about with horse meat in everything

 

[DPG]

Rcd socket is gonna look ugly In your hallway though ?

Doesn't matter if it looks ugly or not , if it's needed then it's needed. Can't you feed it from an RCD somewhere instead?

 

[Guitarist]

Ways to do it...
1) RCBO in consumer unit (unless cu doesn't accept them)
2) RCD in enclosure next to cu in-line with hallway RFC
3) RCD socket (many don't look ugly at all these days

Personally, I wouldn't install a socket outlet without RCD protection.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

They don't really look ugly. Just a green and a red/blue switch instead of 2 white ones. As guitarist say though. I wouldn't even think about putting in a socket without RCD protection these days unless is was specifies or for special equipment (server, it equipment etc) also if its clipped direct does that mean no mechanical protection?

 

[growler]

yeah went for an rcbo in the end

 

[Guitarist]

yeah went for an rcbo in the end

Good man...

 

[alanl]

If this comes up again, 411.3.3 is the relevant Reg.
Basically,almost all socket outlets in domestic premises need to be RCD protected, unless they are only for the use of one particular appliance.

 

[Engineer54]

Listening to some here, it makes you wonder how we oldies all managed to stay alive without all these RCD devices being available in the past!!

 

[7029 dave]

Listening to some here, it makes you wonder how we oldies all managed to stay alive without all these RCD devices being available in the past!!

lol eng54 very true, but side of the times,the 21st century we have all got to be dragged into it ha ha(me kicking and screaming)

 

[Guitarist]

Listening to some here, it makes you wonder how we oldies all managed to stay alive without all these RCD devices being available in the past!!

Back in the olden days, there was something called "workmanship". Judging by some of the jobs I see these so-called "electricians" do, it's a damn good job that we do have RCD's.

 

[telectrix]

BUT JUST FITTING AN rcd TO ALMOST EVERYTHING IS ALL PART OF THE DUMBING DOWN.. SOD THE zS ETC, THE RCD WILL FIX IT.

 

[Guitarist]

BUT JUST FITTING AN rcd TO ALMOST EVERYTHING IS ALL PART OF THE DUMBING DOWN.. SOD THE zS ETC, THE RCD WILL FIX IT.

Indeed mate. We've had a few posts like that recently...."the Zs is really high on this TN system, but it's ok because it has an RCD...."

 

[Flanders]

I've seen high Zs's for RFC on fairly new installs but only because a type C RCBO was used ,if a type B had be used then the Zs would be satisfactory .So would there be any reason to change the RCBO to a type B so that the circuit is within the maximum earth loop? . I've never sited this as a deviation on a EICR as the disconnection time is achieved by the RCBO although I feel its an over site in the design stages.

 

[Guitarist]

RCD's/RCBO's are there as additional protection, not as a backup for a badly designed TN system.

 

[nickblake]

Indeed mate. We've had a few posts like that recently...."the Zs is really high on this TN system, but it's ok because it has an RCD...."

Argh I hate it when they say that all very well unless the /RCD fails I aways try and design the install so it gets the lowest Zs possible Regardless of an RCD , E54 I remember when I was a kid sticking my toe on the bars of an electric fire kept getting a tingle kept doing it , it was a very old VIR install single fuses in little wooden boxes wasn't till I did an inspection on the house 40 years later that I found the polarity was the wrong way round so I was zapping myself lol no wonder my hair looks like a monks

 

[telectrix]

makes me wonder then if the polarity had been the right way round, you might have got more than a tingle.

 

[driverman]

OP question Am I right in thinking a new circuit clipped on the surface doesn't require rcd protection ?

I thought only if you could see the whole length of the cable clipped to the surface from A to B. If cable went through wall to another room /location then rcd required.

 

[Guitarist]

OP question Am I right in thinking a new circuit clipped on the surface doesn't require rcd protection ?

I thought only if you could see the whole length of the cable clipped to the surface from A to B. If cable went through wall to another room /location then rcd required.

That's what you think?

 

[driverman]

I take it the from your comment I'm wrong.

 

[Richard Burns]

It is only required for cables that are buried in the walls and may be nailed into or such, not for cables passing through a wall as they cannot readily be damaged.

 

[Guitarist]

It is only required for cables that are buried in the walls and may be nailed into or such, not for cables passing through a wall as they cannot readily be damaged.

Or for those socket outlets intended to supply outdoor equipment, regardless of installation method.

Richard, I was hoping driverman would read through the regs and give us his opinions.

 

[Richard Burns]

Hope springs eternal, but is often poured wasted on the ground!

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

I've seen high Zs's for RFC on fairly new installs but only because a type C RCBO was used ,if a type B had be used then the Zs would be satisfactory .So would there be any reason to change the RCBO to a type B so that the circuit is within the maximum earth loop? . I've never sited this as a deviation on a EICR as the disconnection time is achieved by the RCBO although I feel its an over site in the design stages.

Could be a type C for a reason? Also if you do change it to a type B as with all breakers make sure its in the permissable maximum values if the circuit is tested cold and dont just go off the table in the regs.

And yes i would change it to a type B from a C to bring it into the permitted Zs.

im not sure if iv understood the post correctly with this reply to be honest haha so apologies if this seems a little arsey.

 

[Flanders]

The circuits in question were for feeding 6 socket on a RF in school classroom for general use only 1 computer and a white board so could not see a reason for the C type . It was an EICR that identified this so maybe I should of sited it as a code 3. I have noticed that in general Merlin Gerin RCBOs are type C