Comments advice on report after having Electrical inspection

[malcolmsanford]

I wonder if this sparks that is getting ripped apart is forum member .............. I bet he now knows what the Christians felt like 2500 years ago, if he is.

 

[Engineer54]

I wonder if this sparks that is getting ripped apart is forum member .............. I bet he now knows what the Christians felt like 2500 years ago, if he is.

Thing is Malc, he has made far too many mistakes on those 2 PIRs!! (If they are just mistakes) What do you do, just ignore these points, and let the OP fend for himself?? Or do we give the OP the information he needs to get his installation rectified correctly and safely at a reasonably cost effective price??

From what i have learned on these forums, It's just this type of situation that all the sparks here are complaining about, and is giving the industry a bad name in the process.

 

[Electricalserv]

I wonder if this sparks that is getting ripped apart is forum member .............. I bet he now knows what the Christians felt like 2500 years ago, if he is.

P.SMITH from Norwich, Norfolk area anyone????

 

[telectrix]

I wonder if this sparks that is getting ripped apart is forum member .............. I bet he now knows what the Christians felt like 2500 years ago, if he is.

talking of which, malcolm. when's the next crucifixion/beheading in saudi?

 

[drew35]

I noticed that also, a reading that low on an earth rod? That can't be right.

 

[telectrix]

hmmm. came across a job the other week. TN-S with an earth rod as well. think i got a reading of around 0.25ohms.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Well mate i'm assuming he is not or if he is then he is keeping quiet. I agree we should be telling the OP that the report on face value is sub standard and advising the OP to contact the electrician, and to let the electrician have a chance to address his mistakes/errors. This is what a scheme would advise.
I just feel that kangaroo courts are counter productive. This thread as opened what seems to be a very emotive subject, and that is the reason I have not posted on it, but always feel that sometimes things are not always what they seem, until the truth will out.

 

[PC Electrics]

The inconvenience thing is an issue, but this is a modest property and there are many alternative sources of light in the normal domestic situation, eg TV, bedside lights, clock display, oven light, moon light, street lights. I don't see it as critical that the property is rewired to have 2 lights circuits, though of course you can if you want to spend the money.
The lack of cpc is an issue of safety however and really needs rectifying. Given the age of the property it is likely that the lights are wired in singles. there are probably red singles looping in and out of each switch, a switch wire to each light position and a neutral looping round each light position. i would offer to fix this by replacing the single neutral with a new single & earth neutral and then just replacing each switch wire again with single & earth. No need for a complete rewire - job done in a day and cpc to all points. Remember this is a bungalow.

So you now tell us there is an immersion connected to the ring? Why is this not detailed on the PIR and given a code 4 (arguably a code 2 since there is only one ring, especially if this is your primary means of hot water)?
this needs fixing with it's own circuit. Probably less than half a day. If he was intending to do this, it really should be detailed on the PIR and quote.
At this age of property, it's also likely the immersion has no safety cut out - this is a code 2 and a new stat should be fitted (see the guides linked below)

If I were putting in a new dRCD Cu, I'd be tempted to split the ring into 2x radials at 20A each, one for the kitchen and one for the rest of the house.

The cables need properly identifying - given the age they are almost certainly imperial. I've attached a doc that gives you details about how to identify imperial cable and rate them around page 5 or 6 of this thread. If it's been deleted by 'the management', PM me and I'll send you a copy by email.

No mention in the report of supplementary bonding for the bathroom. Again given the age likely to be an issue, but a dRCD CU will sort that.

Also, why does the PIR not detail any 'extent' - it cannot be not applicable.

I've personally had a lot of trouble with Crabtree branded RCDs and RCBOs and won't fit them new, only if an existing CU is Crabtree. And that Electrium recall seriously dented my faith in any of their brands. IMO Hager are much better quality since they were redesigned (and better value and made in the EU & assembled in the UK).

The sparks should check out guides 1, 4 and 6 here:
Best practice guides : Electrical Safety Council

more advice for the spark:
Periodic inspection of existing domestic and similar installations : Electrical Safety Council

plenty of advice for the client here:
Home Electrics : Electrical Safety Council

 

[Engineer54]

Malcolm,

I most certainly agree with some of your points, i'm not into Kangaroo court scenarios either. Just that Both of those PIRs had the the same anomalies, especially those Zs results, ....That's more than a little suspicious don't you think??

Not really interested in the other area's where simple typo mistakes may or may not have been made, they are neither here or there.
The Codes given in these PIRs are again out of my experience, as i can't state with any authority what code should be given to what infraction... Others here would know far better than I in this instance!!! That seems to be a more than a common occurance from what i can understand....

 

[wingers]

thank you all for some great advice - really wasn't intended to be a witch hunt against electrician that did the report - just when I posted my initial issues re a light socket it was suggested I post the report to get some guidance - I certainly have nothing against the electrician I used, just trying to make sure job is done correctly at best price - have only just bought this bungalow so money a bit tight etc

 

[Engineer54]

hmmm. came across a job the other week. TN-S with an earth rod as well. think i got a reading of around 0.25ohms.

Council house installations in the early 50's were quite often also given a earth rod or lattice, i know that my parents house was, as well as all the other houses on that estate and an even bigger near-by council house estate. Nothing wrong in doing the same now either, to any TN-S or TNC-S derived systems....

 

[wingers]

So you now tell us there is an immersion connected to the ring? Why is this not detailed on the PIR and given a code 4 (arguably a code 2 since there is only one ring, especially if this is your primary means of hot water)?
this needs fixing with it's own circuit. Probably less than half a day. If he was intending to do this, it really should be detailed on the PIR and quote.
At this age of property, it's also likely the immersion has no safety cut out - this is a code 2 and a new stat should be fitted (see the guides linked below)

immersion is not actually used as water is now heated by oil fired central heating - didn't even know I had an immersion until he checked electric's - as it was one of three switches I asked him to identify as was hidden in a cupboard and didn't have a clue what it was for

 

[nickblake]

With the reading of that low id have expected it to be a TNCS ,so as ive pointed out in a previouse post he has ticked both Earth rod and suppliers earth so it could be a TNCS with a Rod as has been mentioned , an old TT system that has been upgraded to TNCS and earth rod never removed , or the earth from the immersion etc causing incorrect readings , as i have said we all make mistakes ,but in correct main switch nos RCD values ,cpc sizes when there isnt one mmm way to many 1 or even 2 may be

 

[wingers]

With the reading of that low id have expected it to be a TNCS ,so as ive pointed out in a previouse post he has ticked both Earth rod and suppliers earth so it could be a TNCS with a Rod as has been mentioned , an old TT system that has been upgraded to TNCS and earth rod never removed , or the earth from the immersion etc causing incorrect readings , as i have said we all make mistakes ,but in correct main switch nos RCD values ,cpc sizes when there isnt one mmm way to many 1 or even 2 may be

I queried this and he made a mistake and has sent me an amended report with just electode ticked

 

[nickblake]

Not being funny and i hate with a passion pulling other sparks apart , but if he had made 1 mistake then he should have checked the cert over and over to ensure no other mistakes have been made then he may well have spotted the other errors that have been pointed out , like i said we all make mistakes , i have a tendancy of checking over certs after they have been sent out , and if i spot a mistake no matter how small then i will re issue the certificate as i have said its easy to over look an error or enter a number incorrectly especially if its a PC based soft ware you use to do the certs

 

[Electricalserv]

35mA RCD is my favourite.....

 

[nickblake]

I would like to know where its installed as the schedual say's its on the ring main (Sockets)as its been tested but the observations say they have no RCD protection

I do think its about time we stopped pulling the guy apart though feel sorry for him think if he's not on the forum he should be not so we can rib him but to help him and try to point him in the direction so he doesnt make any more mistakes , sound like a young inexperiance guy to me , we all need help from time to time i know i do (wife say so any way ) lol

 

[wingers]

35mA RCD is my favourite.....

can you explain the problem with this to be in terms I would understand so I can query this with him - thanks!

 

[wingers]

I would like to know where its installed as the schedual say's its on the ring main (Sockets)as its been tested but the observations say they have no RCD protection

I do think its about time we stopped pulling the guy apart though feel sorry for him think if he's not on the forum he should be not so we can rib him but to help him and try to point him in the direction so he doesnt make any more mistakes , sound like a young inexperiance guy to me , we all need help from time to time i know i do (wife say so any way ) lol

if you can tell me what I am looking for, I can advise where it is?

agreed, but will ask him to clarify some of the points, once I understand them myself a bit more and have gone through all these replies to get a list of what is wrong on report

 

[nickblake]

RCD's are 30ma not 35ma (not all of them there are other values 100ma 300ma etc ) , what i would do is take note of all the errors pointed out buy the guys and query them all

An RCD is identifiable by a small Button that says press to test on it this could be a different array of colours black red yellow blue orange , on it it should have a number or BSEN 61008 or older types BS4293 and have 30ma written on it with a current rating 60, 80 or 100 amp