Connecting to a new supply

[wistedranks]

Hi. This is my first post so if any admin see this, I'm sorry if I'm breaking any rules!

Anyway let's get down to it.

I've recently found myself a nice 1st floor unit to set up a small office in a neglected building (that's taken about 2 weeks to clean up, looked like an indoor skip to begin with). There will be about 15 workstations, a few fluros for lighting, and some heating as I'm thinking it's going to get cold when the winter comes back around. Maybe a small breakout area too, coffee machine / microwave, that kind of thing.

It's powered through some old grid that the landlord seems to think he can charge extortionate rates. But good news is westernpower have brought in a new supply over the other side of the estate - 100 amp fuses? (about 100m away).

So, questions.

Can I get a electric company (eon / npower / whatever) to set up an individual meter for me? Any idea what it would cost?

How much should I expect to pay for cabling (which will probably run along the outside of the building) and installation of the lighting and about 15 wall sockets?

I want a new breaker and repositioned so it's not so annoyingly behind the door. If you've got any idea about cost, please factor that in.

Want all this done within 2 weeks, am I being realistic?

Any input from the professionals here would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Wistedranks

 

[Paul.M]

No rules broken and welcome to the forum.

Note to members, this is not a DIY question, just a request for advice on costs and timescales etc.

Good luck with your new work space.

 

[Leesparkykent]

What has the new DNO supply been pulled in for over the other side of the estate?

 

[wistedranks]

Appreciate the welcome, I'll probably be spending a bit of time here till we're sorted.

From what I understand, it's been pulled in to become the new supply for all units on the estate. I assume everyone is supposed to have their individual meters there. Does that make sense?

 

[Essex_]

To register a new supply or meter you would need to ask WPD for an MPAN (Meter Point Administration Number). You would not be allowed to request that without written permission from the land/property owner and you cannot ask EDF (or similar) for a meter without this MPAN.

 

[Engineer54]

What has the new DNO supply been pulled in for over the other side of the estate?

Exactly, it might not even be available for his side of the estate!!

 

[wistedranks]

Thanks, I'll be sure to get the MPAN from the landlord first thing tomorrow. So glad I found this forum, it would've probably taken me a fair while to find that out. Anything else I need to know / any advice on other questions as well?

 

[wistedranks]

Exactly, it might not even be available for his side of the estate!!

I've spoken to other tenants and they've stated this supply is for our part of the estate.

 

[Leesparkykent]

If the supply has been put in for this purpose then you will have get in touch with the DNO about having a meter installed. You will probably have to get a switch fuse installed at the meter position with the tails hanging out ready to be connected to the new meter. What sort of load are you looking at in your unit?

 

[Essex_]

Thanks, I'll be sure to get the MPAN from the landlord first thing tomorrow. So glad I found this forum, it would've probably taken me a fair while to find that out. Anything else I need to know / any advice on other questions as well?

Sorry mate.

Only WPD can give you that and they will not unless the LL gives you permission.

 

[wistedranks]

Load wise we're planning on 15 workstations, 10 of which will be in use 24/7 (virtual office / outsourced customer service desks), and the other 5 will be used between 9 AM and 9 PM. Think they run at 750w each including displays. the breakout area will be in use every now and then too, want to have a tv on 24/7 for everyone. Winter will have those 1.5kw heaters running to keep everyone from turning into ice.

 

[wistedranks]

Sorry mate.

Only WPD can give you that and they will not unless the LL gives you permission.

If I'm understanding correctly I should contact the landlord and ask him to get it for me is that correct? Sorry I'm not too clued up as you can probably tell, that's why I'm here. I'm sure I can get a certified electrician to do the job, but I'd like to know what is going on too.

 

[wistedranks]

If the supply has been put in for this purpose then you will have get in touch with the DNO about having a meter installed. You will probably have to get a switch fuse installed at the meter position with the tails hanging out ready to be connected to the new meter. What sort of load are you looking at in your unit?

Not sure why my post didn't show, I'll write it again.

So load wise we're looking to have 10 workstations running 24/7 (virtual office / outsourced customer service) and 5 stations running 9 AM till 9PM. They've about 750w including display. Also breakout area coffee machine / microwave will be on for a few times a day I'm guessing, and we'll have a tv on there basically 24/7. And 1.5kw heaters in the winter to stop everyone freezing. Phones at every station too and the fluros.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Not sure why my post didn't show, I'll write it again.

So load wise we're looking to have 10 workstations running 24/7 (virtual office / outsourced customer service) and 5 stations running 9 AM till 9PM. They've about 750w including display. Also breakout area coffee machine / microwave will be on for a few times a day I'm guessing, and we'll have a tv on there basically 24/7. And 1.5kw heaters in the winter to stop everyone freezing. Phones at every station too and the fluros.

Three phase or single phase?

 

[wistedranks]

Three phase or single phase?

Not sure. I believe single should be fine as I'm not using any high voltage appliances. Think the max is 230/40?

 

[Leesparkykent]

I think the best advice is to get a sparky to come have a look and carry out a survey to see how feasible it all is. There are lots of things to be considered. Have you got a sparky in mind? If not i know of an established member on here who isn't to far from you and he really knows his stuff and could probably price it up for you.

 

[wistedranks]

I think the best advice is to get a sparky to come have a look and carry out a survey to see how feasible it all is. There are lots of things to be considered. Have you got a sparky in mind? If not i know of an established member on here who isn't to far from you and he really knows his stuff and could probably price it up for you.

I've had a few electricians come by to assess the scene and they'll be getting back to me with a price tomorrow with a plan of works. I'm in stoke on trent so if you know any professionals local I'll be happy to take their number and give them a call for more advice.

From what they've said when on site, the run for the cable looks fairly straight forward, but one guy was just pulling prices out of the air without me even asking, think he was trying to gage my reaction. Could you possibly provide some guidance on what I should be looking at, just so I know I'm not being unreasonable with price? I'm not afraid of paying for a good and safe electrical installation, but I'm not a fan of being taken for a ride.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I've had a few electricians come by to assess the scene and they'll be getting back to me with a price tomorrow with a plan of works. I'm in stoke on trent so if you know any professionals local I'll be happy to take their number and give them a call for more advice.

From what they've said when on site, the run for the cable looks fairly straight forward, but one guy was just pulling prices out of the air without me even asking, think he was trying to gage my reaction. Could you possibly provide some guidance on what I should be looking at, just so I know I'm not being unreasonable with price? I'm not afraid of paying for a good and safe electrical installation, but I'm not a fan of being taken for a ride.

Without seeing it, it would be foolish for me to try and give any prices. What I will say a lot depends on the designed load. say for instance you wanted an 80amp single phase supply fitted at 100meters, swa cable clipped direct (rough calculation) you could possibly be looking at a 70mm SWA and to buy that it's about £19 a meter. I will PM him your name and this thread so he can PM you if interested when he logs on tomorrow.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I've sent him a pm for you mate.

 

[Paul.M]

Not sure why my post didn't show, I'll write it again.

Sorry about that, I was busy elsewhere and did not see your post in the que to be approved. Manual approval no longer needed.

 

[wistedranks]

I've sent him a pm for you mate.

Thanks for your advice. Quite surprised, had no idea the cable is so dear. What's the significance of 70mm? In your opinion would a 50mm cable be sufficient?

 

[davesparks]

Thanks for your advice. Quite surprised, had no idea the cable is so dear. What's the significance of 70mm? In your opinion would a 50mm cable be sufficient?

70mm can carry more current than 50mm. But 70mm can carry the same current as 50mm for a greater distance.
And then 70mm may be required to meet the required disconnection times of the fuse if 50mm isn't up to it.
The bottom line is that without visiting the site, measuring the distances, calculating the load and knowing the details of the incoming supply we can only guess.

 

[wistedranks]

70mm can carry more current than 50mm. But 70mm can carry the same current as 50mm for a greater distance.
And then 70mm may be required to meet the required disconnection times of the fuse if 50mm isn't up to it.
The bottom line is that without visiting the site, measuring the distances, calculating the load and knowing the details of the incoming supply we can only guess.

Makes sense to have to see it.

What information should I have ready for electricians when they come to see / quote the job? Watts / volts of potential equipment? Anything else? Don't want to waste their time and want to ensure an accurate assessment of the job.

 

[Knobhead]

Just hand the whole job over to the electrician and let him sort it out, he will tell you what’s needed without your interference.

 

[snowhead]

And re the timescale, 2 Weeks, not a chance where any DNO is involved (Western Power)

 

[Spoon]

Do you have an drawn up plan of where these 15 work stations, heaters and the breakout area will be situated within the building? If so give a copy to the electrician.

 

[Octopus]

Is it me or is this puzzling.

The OP is paying meter charges to his landlord, which he thinks are high.

Theres talk of a new supply being brought into the estate by the supplier.... so somebody needs top determine exactly what is going on as I suspect the landlord would HAVE to be involved in the agreement to make changes to the supply to his building AND changes to the internal electrics.

Just saying.

 

[ian.settle1]

I thought that a landlord was not allowed to charge their tenants more than what they paid for electrcity when passing the cost on.

 

[telectrix]

i always thought that there was a small margin allowed. might be wrong.

 

[Darkwood]

It domestic like house rental that has to be charged at the same rate as the landlord paid for the Electricity including standing charges, commercial and Industrial are not bound by these rules and its best to shop around on your existing supply and arrange a better deal with the landlord knowing what may cost him or explain to the landlord that failure to agree a compromise will force you to look at having your own supply into the building but as already expressed, an NPAN needs to be raised and this will require the co-operation of the landlord.

I would personally be trying to arrange some middle ground with the landlord or explain that if you cannot agree a better deal then you will not be moving in, any landlord knows the value of not having empty premises so after a chat I expect some deal could be sorted - if the costs are extortionate why did you agree to move in in the first place, a prospective tenant has far more bargaining power than a signed tenant, it seems you have gone about this --- about --- and backed yourself into a corner thus your in a catch 22 where the landlord has to be agreeable to all options.

 

[ian.settle1]

Can't see that the landlord is that bothered as if he was he would have had the building in some sort of tidy state ready to rent out not as the OP said that it was negelected and has taken 2 weeks to clean out.

 

[wistedranks]

Do you have an drawn up plan of where these 15 work stations, heaters and the breakout area will be situated within the building? If so give a copy to the electrician.

I've done a couple of sketches of potential layouts. I'll go make some photocopies.

 

[wistedranks]

Is it me or is this puzzling.

The OP is paying meter charges to his landlord, which he thinks are high.

Theres talk of a new supply being brought into the estate by the supplier.... so somebody needs top determine exactly what is going on as I suspect the landlord would HAVE to be involved in the agreement to make changes to the supply to his building AND changes to the internal electrics.

Just saying.

Yes, the landlord is charging what seems to be about 25% above the going rate per unit. I think that's pretty excessive for electricity. He has brought a new supply, not sure if the existing one was 'suitable'. Don't just want to be guessing, but I think it may have something to do with the fairly shiny new looking fire alarm system that's also been installed around the estate...

 

[wistedranks]

I thought that a landlord was not allowed to charge their tenants more than what they paid for electrcity when passing the cost on.

From what I understand, there is a small percentage (under 10%) the landlord is able to charge. Not sure if it's a legal regulation or a "suggested guideline". That's the thing about tinternet, can never be sure.

 

[wistedranks]

It domestic like house rental that has to be charged at the same rate as the landlord paid for the Electricity including standing charges, commercial and Industrial are not bound by these rules and its best to shop around on your existing supply and arrange a better deal with the landlord knowing what may cost him or explain to the landlord that failure to agree a compromise will force you to look at having your own supply into the building but as already expressed, an NPAN needs to be raised and this will require the co-operation of the landlord.

I would personally be trying to arrange some middle ground with the landlord or explain that if you cannot agree a better deal then you will not be moving in, any landlord knows the value of not having empty premises so after a chat I expect some deal could be sorted - if the costs are extortionate why did you agree to move in in the first place, a prospective tenant has far more bargaining power than a signed tenant, it seems you have gone about this --- about --- and backed yourself into a corner thus your in a catch 22 where the landlord has to be agreeable to all options.

The landlord is agreeable and frankly seems like a genuine guy. Believe me the agreement is very attractive for us, he wanted rid and we got a bargain. Not sure why there are so many similar places in stoke, if this estate was within the m25 it'd be worth a fortune.

Anyway, wouldn't have moved in if there wasn't a chance we were getting our own supply. Know the other tenants said they've been crying out for it for a while, this seems to be the homestretch right?

 

[Des 56]

There is a maximum resell price for domestic customers,the landlord cant charge more per unit, he can charge a portion, shared between the tenants for standing charge and vat

The Maximum Resale Price does not apply to gas or electricity that is used at industrial or commercial premises

 

[wistedranks]

Can't see that the landlord is that bothered as if he was he would have had the building in some sort of tidy state ready to rent out not as the OP said that it was negelected and has taken 2 weeks to clean out.

He saw a great big heaving pile of rubbish and let it go on the cheap. I'm sure he thought we wouldn't take it, so he offered a silly price, which lowered when I didn't contact back in a week. It looks fantastic now.

This is just step 1. We've planned for some rapid growth once we expand our client base. We didn't expect to start out in Buckingham Palace but we'rre aiming high.