Do socket outlets in a Pub need to be RCD/RCBO protected!

[MerlinGremlin]

Your QS?

Yep

 

[buzzlightyear]

tell them, and its down to the test engineer and your the one that testing it.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

tell them, and its down to the test engineer and your the one that testing it.

Told them that and had many an argument over it, he changes the codings without us knowing it, we found out by one of the lads in the office telling us.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Told them that and had many an argument over it, he changes the codings without us knowing it, we found out by one of the lads in the office telling us.

the answer for that tell him to sign all the eicr test sheets .

 

[The Ghost]

I did some commercial buildings (EICR) and this is a very grey area. Not one CPS scheme can agree on this there is no coherent standard to work from and it is very much up to you the man on site to make your judgement. There were only about 10% RCD protected units/offices. In the end we recorded C3 for all the lack of RCD contingent upon the CEO agreeing to put in place a program of upgrades where RCD was lacking. It is a very contentious area at the moment, I fear it will get worse with the 18th. We did a general risk assessment for the lack of RCDs and it was noted that they had a very good system of checking regularly equipment, no history of accidents and maintenance was really good and conscientious. If it had lacked these factors we would definitely have recorded C2 for a lot of the lack of RCDs. I just wonder what the general condition of the pub was and maintenance etc. This would sway my decision accordingly. So what if you put it in writing and kept the email copy?

 

[Ian1981]

Told them that and had many an argument over it, he changes the codings without us knowing it, we found out by one of the lads in the office telling us.

Well that's nice of him to tell you and your guys.
It's poor management skills really and if he has issues with any coding going on he should have a talk about it to all operatives under his management/supervision

 

[buzzlightyear]

I bet he did not go the job!

 

[The Ghost]

sign all the eicr test sheets

Well he should anyway as QS

 

[buzzlightyear]

Well he should anyway as QS

your right their .

 

[davesparks]

We have the same issue with outdoor light fittings not being mechanically protected and wanting to put them on rcd/RCBO protection, it always gets knocked back.

That makes no sense at all, of course you've been knocked back.
An RCD does not provide any sort of mechanical protection, if mechanical protection is required then you need to install mechanical protection to rectify it.

 

[Deleted member 93172]

I was once a QS on a contracting company, I was told that you can't change the certificates unless you get the testing engineer to explain his findings, or he should go to site and checkout the defects of the results with the testing guy.

 

[davesparks]

Yes they should now be provided with RCD protection.
As for determining a code, that depends on when they were installed and their intended use.

The code doesn't change based on when they were installed, the EICR and the codes applied are based solely on the current edition of bs7671

 

[buzzlightyear]

I was once a QS on a contracting company, I was told that you can't change the certificates unless you get the testing engineer to explain his findings, or he should go to site and checkout the defects of the results with the testing guy.

what you see is what you find.

 

[Toneyz]

If an installation has been installed to a previous addition of BS7671 eg 15th/16th and still complies with that edition should not make the installation warrant a C1 (danger present .risk of injury immediate action required ) or C2 (potentially dangerous) the standard of additional safety of which electrical installations are installed to has changed/improved .Other regulations eg H & S acts may come into play and require RCD protection. I can't see what Part P has to do with a EICR however if I am correct it comes into play if certain work is undertaken when the domestic and business premises share the same meter.

 

[buzzlightyear]

the Q/S should be their with the persons who is testing it .and over seeing the testing

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The code doesn't change based on when they were installed, the EICR and the codes applied are based solely on the current edition of bs7671

Yes and the current edition/amendment just like all the other editions/amendments, states installations constructed to earlier editions may not necessarily be unsafe.
Failure to take on board this fact, is failure to conduct the inspection in accordance with the current edition/amendment of BS7671.

 

[The Ghost]

When all is said and done considering it is a pub and people are drinking and have access to sockets, well I am sure I do not have to underline the greater risk in that situation. Some pubs are crazy later at night. If I was the Landlord I would want to know how safe it was or was not. I would go with C2. I was asked to install a USB socket in a commercial catering and did so very reluctantly as I just do not trust the general public. Lets face it the classification of operatives (BA1 etc.) places ordinary people below children and handicapped! Which I find quite amusing.
P.S. It was on an RCBO!

 

[buzzlightyear]

Yes and the current edition/amendment just like all the other editions/amendments, states installations constructed to earlier editions may not necessarily be unsafe.
Failure to take on board this fact, is failure to conduct the inspection in accordance with the current edition/amendment of BS7671

weather it is 15th 16th and now 17th some body get hurt the h/s will be on some bodys back .

 

[westward10]

Think we may get some thunder this evening.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

That makes no sense at all, of course you've been knocked back.
An RCD does not provide any sort of mechanical protection, if mechanical protection is required then you need to install mechanical protection to rectify it.

We do put down for mechanical protection also along with rcd/RCBO protection. Sorry I didn't explain fully, I should of put it.