do you need the pat testing qualification

[GLENNSPARK]

I'd take that with a rather large pinch of salt!! lol

I'd have to ask however, how could a fully qualified electrician ever fail such a course, let alone ever really needing to take such a course in the first place... lol!!!

well i`d have to ask how ANYONE could fail such a course..lol....i wonder if anyone has?...

 

[Guitarist]

Do they do a 1 day course for kitchen fitters? Just so that they can test appliances "relevant to their job"....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Do they do a 1 day course for kitchen fitters? Just so that they can test appliances "relevant to their job"....

well judging by some of the work we see...lol...

 

[oldtimer]

Just to point out that there is big changes coming to PAT either way I have it so lets see how it plays

 

[polo1]

Just to point out that there is big changes coming to PAT either way I have it so lets see how it plays

Do tell!

 

[oldtimer]

Do tell!

Well if you go to the PAT forum you would have seen the discussion so let me simplify They regulators in the know have asked a professor to do a study and report back to them a government minister has waded in to say lets make it easier to understand but also they can no longer ignore fixed appliances only problem is that the non electrician PAT testers cannot and will not be authorised to work on any equipment that is connected into a FCU. The other thing is they want to relaunch "PAT" and the colleges doing the courses are calling it II&TEE (formally PAT)as per the COP and because of the PAT label everybody thinks it is for portable appliances only but I&T is for fixed wiring and II&TEE is for any appliance connected to fixed wiring so this means storage heaters,cookers,built in ovens will have to be tested .

So why do it well they know its a mess they know that someone is going to challenge a employer for not testing a fixed appliance one day plus 300-400 PAT tests with one individual will not stand up hence why they will do a relaunch making it look like they are only following the report that they instigated in the first place so what will this mean well PAT companies will have to have an electrician on board for fixed or stationary appliances plus they could loose a lot of the domestic market as economically they cannot afford 2 visits when a electrician can do both.

 

[Guitarist]

oldtimer, is the consensus that they will let 3-day PA testers do "limited" electrical works eventually?

 

[oldtimer]

oldtimer, is the consensus that they will let 3-day PA testers do "limited" electrical works eventually?

Well no they have made a rod for their own back here. I went on my II&TEE (formally PAT) at the end of last year and what got all this started was me saying to the lecturer I could not find the PAT testing course on the college website but stumbled on it with In-Service inspection & Testing of Electrical Appliances and he mentioned that we could be seeing changes as PAT is in need of a relaunch plus they could no longer ignore the fixed equipment connected via the fcu ok I said I take it the non electrician PAT tester will have to get a course that no doubt the Schemies will invent to bring more money in and the reply was a definate no as this would be a slippery slope or in other words you have to be a fully qualified electrician or nothing ie no stage 1 or 2 or 3. My view on this and what I have read is the big PAT testing companies will have to have a electrician on board and they can do this but the stand alone PAT tester doing domestic rental properties will be squeezed out of the market the same way the electrician was sqeezed out of PAT testing years ago. I think it will take years but it looks like they will change the intervals of testing and include fixed appliances wired via FCUs

 

[Guitarist]

Glad to hear it mate. Personally, I think it's a travesty that someone with absolutely NO experience, training or qualifications can do a 3 day course to "test" electrical equipment and repair it if it's faulty.
There seem to be lots of "big" firms employing these guys on minimum wage to put stickers on appliances at the moment.

 

[oldtimer]

Glad to hear it mate. Personally, I think it's a travesty that someone with absolutely NO experience, training or qualifications can do a 3 day course to "test" electrical equipment and repair it if it's faulty.
There seem to be lots of "big" firms employing these guys on minimum wage to put stickers on appliances at the moment.

Well I dont think it is the guys fault but more the regulators and companies who have carved it up to in my view such an extent that their actions would not stand up in court but the problem is it would cost a lot of money to take them to court and expose the sticker companies and regulators and they now know they cannot get away with saying a washing machine with a plug top on it can be tested but the same machine wired into a FCU does not. What could happen is to push PAT testers to get their electrical qualifications. Interesting times

 

[Guitarist]

That's why I was worried that there may be a "dumbed-down" electrical qualification for them. We all know that getting a proper electrical apprenticeship, with experience and qualifications takes years, so I think we are safe. It's not like you can do it in 5 weeks!!!

 

[Toby Kuhnert]

I asked my tutor at college this the other day, he said that in a court of law, the level 3 (2330) qualification that i'm working towards, would automatically override any other pat testing qualification. Is this true? He added that the City and Guilds PAT testing qualification is mainly aimed at persons who have little or no electrical knowledge, landlords, business owners etc.

 

[Engineer54]

I asked my tutor at college this the other day, he said that in a court of law, the level 3 (2330) qualification that i'm working towards, would automatically override any other pat testing qualification. Is this true? He added that the City and Guilds PAT testing qualification is mainly aimed at persons who have little or no electrical knowledge, landlords, business owners etc.

Makes a lot more sense to me!! lol!! But never in a month of Sunday's is a PAT course C&G a level 3 qualification, ...That's just farcical nonsense!!

 

[oldtimer]

I asked my tutor at college this the other day, he said that in a court of law, the level 3 (2330) qualification that i'm working towards, would automatically override any other pat testing qualification. Is this true? He added that the City and Guilds PAT testing qualification is mainly aimed at persons who have little or no electrical knowledge, landlords, business owners etc.

I agree but the problem is because the hived off PAT to 2377 I used to get asked are you a qualified PAT tester I used to say yes as a qualified approved electrician I can do this. So why have they got a seperate qualification then and wheres yours ? Hence why I sat it and of course you could say the same for I&T 2390,

 

[ackbarthestar]

I agree but the problem is because the hived off PAT to 2377 I used to get asked are you a qualified PAT tester I used to say yes as a qualified approved electrician I can do this. So why have they got a seperate qualification then and wheres yours ? Hence why I sat it and of course you could say the same for I&T 2390,

I can't see the fuss with PAT as a form of evidence to show some form of compliance with HASAWA, EAWR and PUWER. since it was designed to supplement any basic electrical work and also provide some form of basic training for those who are not directly involved with installation but more maintenance.
Then, I don't know of any college that includes PAT as part of the basic level Electrical Installations course, although it was briefly mentioned as a question in the 236 I did and was included in one of the exams.

 

[richard.cs]

I used to PAT test second-hand appliences for a charity before they were sold. Their rules basically defined "competant" as "Common sense + general electrical knowledge + ability to read" rather than requiring a specific qualification. So far as I know they had legal advice which indicated this was fine.

 

[ackbarthestar]

I would agree, common sense and a level of experience coupled with electrical knowledge. I think the point i was making was that 2377 PAT gave some form of quantification to that level of electrical knowledge. Since any Tom, Dick or Hardhat can say they are competent but not all appear to be able to pass this qualification.

One bad example of poor initial assessment was 12 prison officers were considered not to be 'pulling their weight' by their employer because they were found to be sat around all day watching TV screens.

Their employer wanted to get their 'pound of flesh' and so stuck them all on a 1 day PAT course .

Needless to say they all failed. Lol

 

[Toby Kuhnert]

One of the places I'm currently sub-contracted to, they do the PAT testing themselves - Bought a tester, watched the DVD and told me because they watched the DVD, they were competent. To be honest by looking at the state of the tools in the workshop, they would all fail on a visual! terrible

 

[brman]

One of the places I'm currently sub-contracted to, they do the PAT testing themselves - Bought a tester, watched the DVD and told me because they watched the DVD, they were competent. To be honest by looking at the state of the tools in the workshop, they would all fail on a visual! terrible

probably this one.... Learn how to PAT Test
and you even get to print your own certificate at the end :lol:

 

[oldtimer]

Well at least he said if it did not have a plug on it then a qualified electrician would have to test it