Domestic courses question, don't beat me.

[Enduro73]

Hi All
I'm new here and need some guidance on training to compliment my job.
I'm a self employed kitchen fitter that's looking into the hated domestic course so I can do my own electrics and sign off. I have a few reasons for this which I won't bore you with.
I fully understand that I will be very limited in knowledge gained by these courses, but i simply just want to limit myself to what's required for my kitchens. The biggest jobs that will occur is the consumer unit change and upgrading the earth bonding, I know there the most important.
With my knowledge being limited, should I survey a kitchen and think I could potentially hit a snag, I would book an electrician. One of my old electricians whom I'm friends with has offered to be a helpline and even bail me out if things go ---- up.

I know these courses get slated for teaching slap dash cowboys that don't give a ---- about their quality of work or their customers. I'm not like that, I'm overly conscientious. This is one reason of wanting to do it myself, sparks I've used don't think like me and I've had enough. I dare say there are amazing sparkies out there but I've had no luck.
Reading about me and my work, do you guys think it's worth me doing?

The money I would spend I would get back in 12 months, so cost isn't an issue.
The course supplier is Electrical Courses For You.

Thanks for any help or beatings.

 

[Spoon]

The biggest jobs that will occur is the consumer unit change

Hi mate.
Why would a kitchen need a consumer unit change?
I have nothing against these short courses, but from what I have read, you will only learn the basics.

 

[Enduro73]

As soon as we touch a circuit, it has to be on an rcd board. Plenty still don't have them.
From what my electrician is doing for me is pretty simple. Its repetition on each kitchen.

 

[Rpa07]

Its been raised on here before but you are better off culturing a relationship with a sole trader spark who could do your electrical changes when needed. You could help each other out and it could lead to work for both of you from each other. As long as they realise that they can’t let you down and need to be conscientious themselves then the money you save on the course could be spent paying them.
Doesn’t mean you can’t still do the course but get someone on your side first. You get to chose them which is good for you and giving them work is good for them.

 

[Spoon]

As soon as we touch a circuit, it has to be on an rcd board. Plenty still don't have them.

Why not give the customer the option of change the breaker for an RCBO or just add a small consumer unit?
Yes a full board change is better, but it is not necessary.
Also it sounds like you are ripping off the customer if you don't give them all the options.

 

[Enduro73]

I do and they all go for future proofing, which I agree with.

 

[Spoon]

You do know that changing a consumer unit is notifiable work and the local building control body needs to be notified of the work?
This apparently costs a lot more money if you are mot a member of a scheme.

 

[Enduro73]

07.
I've had a few electricians and they all seem to be the same around here. I mark where I need cables etc to suit the cabinets, still get it wrong, don't have the brains or common sense to put a bit of cardboard over new worktops where they are working and risk scratching them. Does my head in, oh then I got to clean up after them.
I'm confident I could do what they do in my kitchens and I don't have to work around or rely on somebody else.

With course fees, digs, time off and kit, I'm looking at 6k. I wouldn't do the course and not bother doing the work.
I'd get that back in less than a year after not paying for a sparky.

 

[Enduro73]

Spoon.
I am aware. The idea is to do the course to which I can apply to join elecsa for example, pending assessment results.

 

[Baddegg]

Mate don’t assume after the £6k and time off you are anywhere near where the course providers tell you you’ll be.....all they do is teach you to pass the exams......I promise you you’ll get stuck in the real world, I’m not saying don’t do it but don’t think it’s as easy as doing a 5 week course and hey presto! There’s a reason the BBB is as thick as it is, even if only doing domestic there’s still a lot of theory that you can’t learn in 5 weeks......it’s not as simple as just changing a consumer unit......as always I wish you the best of luck.

 

[stuarth]

Enduro73, I too am a kitchen fitter that did the coarse and have not regretted it at all, as long as you except your limitations and are willing to continue to further your knowledge you will be fine. That said the guys are right you will not learn everything needed on these short courses you must ask questions here and other places, and there are plenty of well written books available to help as well as some very good youtube content creators that will help to fill in some of the gaps from the short coarses you will always be learning which I find challenging as well as rewarding, good luck.
SparkyNinja - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWLwXHMTmD7qVZ4X2e0pEOg
GSH Electrical - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgtbE9w_d-u2AvPp3WBlPfQ
John Ward - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2uFFhnMKyF82UY2TbXRaNg

 

[Enduro73]

Thanks Stuart, very helpful indeed.
Much appreciated.
One thing I am clear about will be my limitations, I know I'm not coming out of that course an electrician but simply have the papers to carry out what I need.

 

[Dustydazzler]

There is absolutely nothing stopping you do your own wiring upgrades

You could simply do it now so long as notified the planning department in advance so you’re work is inspected

Or

for ease you can do a short electrical train course to get your part pee and notify you own work

Either way if you feel it’s better for business just do it

 

[Wilko]

Hi - if you have a love of things electric then I’d say go for it. If it’s just a way to sign off work, you might find it doesn’t really work out for you. There is plenty of time and costs beyond the course and it’s not all beer and skittles.
Its a shame you haven’t found the right electrical partner for your work yet. I sometimes work with Mr Kitchen Fitter and we spend a happy few days. But I can follow instructions .

 

[Barnaby Stedman]

Id also say go for it, of course any sparky that has done proper training and been to college etc is gonna hate someone that just does a brief course and seems to be able to do the same jobs as them. But they/we will also admit that we learnt a lot once we were on the tools so go for it - your training is basically making you a safe installer. Dont expect to be taught every single good practice etc.

Experience counts a lot too. Make use of your sparky friend to give you training too in his spare time. get him to inspect your first few installs - that will give you loads of valuable advice.

good luck.

 

[The Ghost]

Deja vu?!

 

[Barnaby Stedman]

Deja vu?!

#useful

 

[The Ghost]

useful

Really? How?

 

[Barnaby Stedman]

If you're gonna say something make it useful...thats all

 

[The Ghost]

If you're gonna say something make it useful...thats all

So how was your comment useful? Going by your new forum rule you should not have stated that rule. Anyway it was re the duplicate thread which I hoped would be understood, clearly not.

 

[Barnaby Stedman]

oh ok hahahaahahahahaha
i thought you were poking fun at me for some reason
sorry abt that
i hadnt noticed the duplicate thread

 

[Enduro73]

I understand the frustration of you guys reading a common thread, I've read older posts but they didn't relate to me, it was all for people starting a new career not a practicing tradesman.
I will read the advice given and have a think.

 

[stuarth]

@Enduro73 your welcome to message me if you want any info etc

 

[Enduro73]

Thanks Stuart, I may take you up on that later. Just heading out.
Can I ask, are you a fully trained sparky or someone like me thats done the quick fix?
Cheers mate

 

[MJPD29]

Sorry, beatings are the customary welcome and unavoidable

 

[Enduro73]

Just go easy on the size of the stick

 

[AJshep]

I've never done a short course but I believe they were originally designed for trades people like yourself, If you work to a high standard then it may not be too much if a problem. What gets my back up is that lot of training providers abuse the course and mislead the trainees in to believing they are electricians, some people come out with wasted money, some just don't care and start rewiring peoples houses. Its like anything though, some are good, some are bad. Depends on the person.

You mentioned consumer unit upgrades on most of your kitchens......
In my opinion this is where you could become unstuck. If the wiring is old I personally always offer to install new circuits for a kitchen and add an additional CU. Just be aware that changing a Consumer unit make you responsible for everything connected to it so everything needs testing fully before undertaking these works, a dodgy circuit shouldn't be reconnected to a new consumer unit unless its safe, if you change the Consumer unit and then find a problem (missing earth/ tripping RCDs) than legally its down to you to rectify it.. For free !

 

[Enduro73]

Ah fair enough. Is that how you get round it, just an add on for the new circuit so as to not have to test the whole house?
The only pain I can see there is running in a new kitchen ring when the cu is at the opposite end of the house.
From memory we've only had an issue once and he had to tear the place apart to find the fault, skirting board nail

 

[stuarth]

Not fully trained, but have started on 2365-2 in my "spare" time

 

[Enduro73]

Fairplay Stuart

 

[Andy78]

For £6k I'm sure you could get "properly" qualified. Just a thought.

 

[Enduro73]

Course 1700
Digs 700
Food and fuel 300
Time of work 2100, 3 weeks
Kit, books etc 1000

 

[Enduro73]

Only want to do what I need for my kitchens, not interested in fully sparky

 

[Andy78]

Only want to do what I need for my kitchens, not interested in fully sparky

In my opinion unless you know the full crack behind the job you can't really understand the smaller jobs fully.

Best of luck though, you seem focused. Just be aware of your limitations and take full advantage of any mentoring you can get.

 

[magnoliafan89]

Wait.....We have to actually do learning for this job?!?!

 

[a-z electrics]

Only want to do what I need for my kitchens, not interested in fully sparky

My two pennoth,,
From someone who got trained on one of these courses 8 yrs ago and now do most domestic sparks jobs - it takes a long time to get anything like fully clued up on how to tackle some of the cans of worms that emerge from doing a full installation/replacement CU. I am also technically sound as i am a qualified engineer with many years experience in the aerospace industry; it helps enormously if you understand some physics, maths and electrical theory, especially power and realise the dangers that can potentially unfold..
i would agree that if you are conscientious but want to stick with kitchen work then by all means do the course, they're not all bad, and your part P assessment but then just do the necessary sparks required for the kitchen, nothing else; if you need to run a new circuit for a kitchen then just do that, you don't need to replace everything else.. later on with some experience you may well want to branch out to expand if that attracts.. best of luck!

 

[Charlie_]

I will train you up for £3000 and put you in for a c&g exam at the end of the 3 weeks..
I’m sure there is plenty of electricians out there that would be happy to train you up for what you will be paying..

Actually, you could come and install my new kitchen and redo all my electrics at the same time.. I will supervise and educate at the same time and I will still only charge you £3000?

IMO you don’t need to be wasting your time and money on those short courses

 

[ruston]

I will train you up for £3000 and put you in for a c&g exam at the end of the 3 weeks..
I’m sure there is plenty of electricians out there that would be happy to train you up for what you will be paying..

Actually, you could come and install my new kitchen and redo all my electrics at the same time.. I will supervise and educate at the same time and I will still only charge you £3000?

IMO you don’t need to be wasting your time and money on those short courses

An offer to good to refuse.

 

[Andy78]

Only £2995 at Andy training enterprises. That includes food and board too.


(Own tent required but free pitch provided)

 

[ruston]

Ten to one he would learn more than on the course.

 

[a-z electrics]

Course 1700
Digs 700
Food and fuel 300
Time of work 2100, 3 weeks
Kit, books etc 1000

That seems a good deal.. kit would include a MF tester though and they start at about 500..

 

[remedial]

that figure doesn't include scheme registration.

funny that the train centres never seem to mention that all the schemes require you to have 2 years experience

 

[Andy78]

that figure doesn't include scheme registration.

funny that the train centres never seem to mention that all the schemes require you to have 2 years experience

I think you'll find in practice it's a lot easier to get in than the official line stated.

 

[remedial]

I think you'll find in practice it's a lot easier to get in than the official line stated.

i know. i just thought i'd drop that in for fun. must be bored.

when i rang one of the schemes a while ago i asked what i need to do to prove i've got the required 2 years experience. the girl said "uhh... uhhh... you dont have to do anything, we just trust you."

 

[a-z electrics]

i know. i just thought i'd drop that in for fun. must be bored.

when i rang one of the schemes a while ago i asked what i need to do to prove i've got the required 2 years experience. the girl said "uhh... uhhh... you dont have to do anything, we just trust you."

Must be a new requirement.. i wasn't asked to have any experience, just an eye test ...should have gone to Specsavers.

 

[Enduro73]

Not an issue now. Putting on hold for now. Spoken to a new sparky and told him my issues and we've agreed a good working practice that suits both of us, so trying that 1st.
Kit wise I have most things apart from the mf tester.
Hopefully my new sparky will be a good one

 

[Enduro73]

Not an issue now. Putting on hold for now. Spoken to a new sparky and told him my issues and we've agreed a good working practice that suits both of us, so trying that 1st.
Kit wise I have most things apart from the mf tester.
Hopefully my new sparky will be a good one