EAL Course in Inspection and Testing

Discuss EAL Course in Inspection and Testing in the Electrician Courses : Electrical Quals area at ElectriciansForums.net

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rmc86uk

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Hi Everyone

Has anyone on here done the EAL Inspection and Testing course? It is set in two parts also like the C&G 2394 and 2395. It is also open book unlike the C&G. I'm thinking of taking the course next year and just wondered what other peoples thoughts are and that the candidate pass rate must be a lot higher than the 40% for 2391.

Just to add I've seen a few posts on here from the Electrical Trainee's who have gained the 2391 qualification with no experience at all! I know a few time served Electricians who have failed the 2391 at least three times!

Surely the scam training centres must be churning the 2391 passes out so that more Electrical Trainee's enrol and spend their Five grand!
 
I might have been swayed into accepting it but now you've warned me.................. Not a chance.....

Open book.......... That just proves you've got a basic level of reading skill!


... and don't tell me the people offering the course are forum sponsors with a number in their name and think they ARE the industry!!!!?
 
EAL 4-day course on Inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations


EAL Level 3 Awards in the:

Initial Verification and Certification of Electrical Installations (QCF code 600/4337/4)
Periodic Inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations (QCF 600/4338/6)

These EAL qualifications are direct equivalents of the City and Guilds 2394 and 2395 qualifications, but do not require a written exam to be undertaken. The theory assessment is online and open-book; the practical assessments are the same as 2394 and 2395.

Overview

These qualifications provide an understanding of the theory and practice involved in the initial verification and commissioning, and periodic inspection, testing and condition reporting of single and three phase electrical installations.

Looks like more dumbing down of industry standards IMO.
 
So I take it you guys who passed 2391 threw your GN3 book away when you passed as it was all committed to memory. No of course you did'nt no one would. Does open book theory exam make it easier, I would guess yes especially for those with poor memories but does it mean they will be bad testers or have no understanding of what they are doing , I think not if that were the case they would not pass the practical exam which is the same as C & G.
I think the memory aspect of C & G exams plays a bigger roll than it should in being able to pass the exam.
It is an interesting debate but I will save judgement until someone who has experience of both courses can make a considered judgement, maybe a tutor.
 
All recognised quals have been accredited by OfQual . C&G is just one provider albeit the most recognised. The Level 3 units in the EAL courses should therefore match the C&G 2394/2395. They can also be done for half the price of C&G in some places.
They SHOULD in theory be accepted by the industry but may or maynot be do in practice
http://www.accreditedqualifications.org.uk/vocational-qualifications.html
 
NJG28 said:
All recognised quals have been accredited by OfQual . C&G is just one provider albeit the most recognised. The Level 3 units in the EAL courses should therefore match the C&G 2394/2395. They can also be done for half the price of C&G in some places.
They SHOULD in theory be accepted by the industry but may or maynot be do in practice
Vocational Qualifications
Click to expand...

Open book against closed book. On what planet SHOULD they match the C&G ? Regardless of whether the pathetic industry regulators decide they are on par, anyone with half a brain cell can see they aren't even close.
 
robbalaar86 said:
While C&G are the most well known I think it's wrong to dismiss the EAL version when the nic and jib recognise it.
Click to expand...

Open book vs Closed book.

No comparison. Anyone can read something from a book, give someone with half a brain that knows nothing about electrics and in theory they could still pass the open book exam. Therefore, it's a complete farce.
 
Just to echo other people really, but really come on, comparing a closed book exam to an open book one.

If i was an employer i would also not accept this course as anywhere near as good as the 2394/2395, simple.
 
I didn't compare the two I am just stating fact.

If you can do the same exam for half the price then why not? Yes I know one is closed book. Do you think the Electrical Trainee are doing anything near full quals?

To be honest the fact they have split the 91 into two stinks!!!

By your logic you wouldn't join the jib if you don't agree with their standing?
 
No, and that's why the Electrical Trainee have the reputation they do.

Completley agree about the 2391 though.

And as regards to the JIB thats slightly different, because the JIB are a one off really don't have a competitor. If someone similar came around to the JIB then i'd look at both and go from there.

As it stands....Mr X comes to me seeking a job and has C+G quals and Mr Y comes to me seeking a job and has the EAL equivalent. Mr X gets employed.
 
Im not OfQual so I can't answer that! Not my rules!
To be honest I would suspect you'd run out of exam time if you had to look everything up.
 
The 2391 used to be looked at as the golden egg. It still is for many employers. I missed out and have the 2394 and 95 which after doing a lot of 2391 past paper to prep for probably are not as hard but Are not far off. A open book makes a mockery of it and maybe the JIB could do with a rival although I am not taking anything away from them they are a good orginisation but they need to give there heads a wobble on this one. I'm not surprised scans recognise them. They would recognise a chocolate biscuit as a certificate if the cheque clears!
 
markc123 said:
No, and that's why the Electrical Trainee have the reputation they do.

Completley agree about the 2391 though.

And as regards to the JIB thats slightly different, because the JIB are a one off really don't have a competitor. If someone similar came around to the JIB then i'd look at both and go from there.

As it stands....Mr X comes to me seeking a job and has C+G quals and Mr Y comes to me seeking a job and has the EAL equivalent. Mr X gets employed.
Click to expand...

Your choice of course as you're the boss of your own set up. You may be missing best candidate though if only choose on that criteria.

Perhaps EAL chap couldn't afford DOUBLE the EAL fee for a C&G quals. How DO C&G justify their price ?
 
EAL - Excellence, Achievement & Learning Limited are they actually doing what their name says because there is no doubt standards are dropping. A quick look at their website gives plenty of information as to why this industry is in the mess it is in. They are just money chasers, X billion pounds to be spent on railways we need a cut of the training so let's get into that industry says it all.

I don't see how you can have equal parallel qualifications C&G V's EAL each has to stand on it's own merit. It is interesting how industries are on their knees yet these training companies seem to be getting bigger and bigger and there are new ones popping up all the time to deliver these courses of hope and promise.

We need to get back to proper training without all the acronyms do we need QCF, NVQ etc etc after all it is job creation without any tangible product. Does any employer actually know what the NVQ levels 2,3 & 4 are and what you could expect from someone presenting these qualifications for employment as a quick search of the web doesn't give you any reference to work with

Nobody has tried to get the more experienced tradesmen onboard with these training changes probably because it is a non understanding management driven change that is watering down qualifications while still trying to give them some kudos
 
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ChrisElectrical88 said:
I'm an employer, and I wouldn't accept it as an equivalent to C&G so that's your the tort out of the window.
Click to expand...


An unfair, unbalanced and ill judged comment. Nothing wrong with EAL. Again people frightened of modern learning practices and practical applications. Who would want a job with someone who does not recognise industry accredited qualifications?
 
EAL seem to be hand in glove with the training companies! ( Short Course). Offering their EAL Domestic Installers Qualification! I don't recall hearing City and Guilds offering the same qualification!
 
trevki said:
An unfair, unbalanced and ill judged comment. Nothing wrong with EAL.
Click to expand...

There might be nothing wrong with EAL from your point of view but a lot of people can't see what is right with it

trevki said:
Again people frightened of modern learning practices and practical applications.
Click to expand...

You're right a lot of people are frightened by the modern minimalist learning practices and the fact that these are accepted as an acceptable level of competence to become a self employed domestic installer and recognised by one of the schemes. It will be a few years before the long term damage this learning method and what it will do to the industry can be assessed and then it will be too late to change it back

trevki said:
Who would want a job with someone who does not recognise industry accredited qualifications?
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Don't you mean who would get a job with second rate qualifications the prospective employer doesn't accept because they fall below the previous qualification levels needed to be an electrician. The industry accreditation is agreed by managers who have little or no knowledge of the industry IMO hence the falling qualification standards
 
Was just about to respond to trevki's post...then got to the last comment, well said UNG. Along the lines of what i was planning to say.

C+G are about the only organisastion left, bar the JIB, in this trade that have a bit of dignity left.
 
markc123 said:
Was just about to respond to trevki's post...then got to the last comment, well said UNG. Along the lines of what i was planning to say.

C+G are about the only organisastion left, bar the JIB, in this trade that have a bit of dignity left.
Click to expand...
Although the JIB are responsible for the low standard of applicants, we uphold the standard of old farts!
 
markc123 said:
Was just about to respond to trevki's post...then got to the last comment, well said UNG. Along the lines of what i was planning to say.

C+G are about the only organisastion left, bar the JIB, in this trade that have a bit of dignity left.
Click to expand...

The C&G's credibility is falling fast and it's not to far off hitting the bottom a thread on here a little while back was questioning what a particular C&G qualification was and it turned out to be a course one of the fast track training companies had set up and the C&G had give it accreditation and a course number so the C&G are all part of the race to the bottom

The balance sheet mentality of training plus the I want it all and I want it now not tomorrow entrants into the industry are combining to drive standards down and every organisation involved is frightened of missing out on making money from the cash cow that has been created instead of standing by their principles
 
I have taken a fair bit of stick here, however as an IEng MIET member who has held principal positions with companies you would all know, and having served a full apprenticeship some 35 years ago I feel I have a bit of experience. The trade has suffered through a drop in the overall quality of work produced, more from a practical point than a technical one. An open book exam shows you are able to use the regs in the correct manor rather than learn parts off by heart parrot fashion. To me there is nothing wrong with either, but I like the EAL model as it makes people refer to regs as needed and learn how to use the book, but this does not solve the practical quality problem. To get to the core of the problem there is only one driving force, a force driven by the client...MONEY. No matter what you think if people want to save money then quality will go out the window. I would still support EAL as an equal but alternative teaching method.
 
trevki said:
I have taken a fair bit of stick here .......
Click to expand...

Read some of the other threads, to find out what a real shoeing feels like (or should I say is written like!)

But Im sure you're old enough, big enough and ugly enough to take it on the chin and carry-on ....... as we all do :cry_smile:
 
UNG said:
The C&G's credibility is falling fast and it's not to far off hitting the bottom a thread on here a little while back was questioning what a particular C&G qualification was and it turned out to be a course one of the fast track training companies had set up and the C&G had give it accreditation and a course number so the C&G are all part of the race to the bottom

The balance sheet mentality of training plus the I want it all and I want it now not tomorrow entrants into the industry are combining to drive standards down and every organisation involved is frightened of missing out on making money from the cash cow that has been created instead of standing by their principles
Click to expand...

I appologise - didn't know that. Times have changed, and i keep my self away from the educational system - only time im back at college now is for the updates every now and again...and thank god for that.

shame too see C+G going down the pan aswell.
 
Badged01 said:
Read some of the other threads, to find out what a real shoeing feels like (or should I say is written like!)

But Im sure you're old enough, big enough and ugly enough to take it on the chin and carry-on ....... as we all do :cry_smile:
Click to expand...

Yes, being pretty much all of those things, I have had harsher criticism...some of it I almost agreed with
 
I was speaking to our apprentice's JTL trainer the other day and apparently C&G has been dropped and they exclusively use EAL for all training now...
 
trevki said:
I have taken a fair bit of stick here, however as an IEng MIET member who has held principal positions with companies you would all know, and having served a full apprenticeship some 35 years ago I feel I have a bit of experience.
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting other members are not sufficiently experienced to comment

trevki said:
The trade has suffered through a drop in the overall quality of work produced, more from a practical point than a technical one.
Click to expand...

The trade has suffered both technically with the short courses and practically with the lack of properly supervised on site training and experience that complimented the technical training during an apprenticeship this results in a poorer quality installation

trevki said:
An open book exam shows you are able to use the regs in the correct manor rather than learn parts off by heart parrot fashion. To me there is nothing wrong with either, but I like the EAL model as it makes people refer to regs as needed and learn how to use the book, but this does not solve the practical quality problem.
Click to expand...

So in an open book exam are you going to look up something you know, if you don't complete the exam is that because they didn't give you enough time to look up all the answers. With any learning model it doesn't force anybody to look up something they don't know but they can wing it with less knowledge and anybody that can use an index can find their way round a book they don't need EAL training for that. The current training system offers no solution to the lack of practical experience to support the technical theory as the complete training package was called an apprenticeship for which the current system has no equivalent

trevki said:
To get to the core of the problem there is only one driving force, a force driven by the client...MONEY. No matter what you think if people want to save money then quality will go out the window. I would still support EAL as an equal but alternative teaching method.
Click to expand...

So are you saying the client drives the quality of training or if his budget doesn't extend to buying a quality installation he can't expect one, the client should get a quality installation whatever his budget be it a Mini or a Bentley he is buying
With regard to the EAL it may be an equal in the current training regime but along with the other established training body they need to restore the training to a level that creates properly trained electricians and restore some respect to the industry and themselves as providers of training. No matter how you dress it up the current qualifications both EAL and C&G they lack a lot and actually get the respect or lack of they deserve depending how you view the current training
 
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Sorry to read you feel so bitter over this thread, however my answer to most of your reply lies in my last post.
I am neither "saying" nor "suggesting" any of the words you are proposing to put in my mouth, as well you know. What I am stating is that the client should expect to pay for a quality job. If they do not want to pay for a quality job how is anyone able to provide them with such unless they subsidise the client with their own money? and as all our income is from clients this of course impacts on training budgets and influences where trainers spend that money.
Technically, electricians need to know more now than ever so the trend is upwards, from a practical point of view quality control, poor supervision, and inferior materials have all contributed to the actual installations going downhill and are all associated with cost cutting.
The thread is about EAL and C&G, I have made my opinions clear and will happily accept both, others choose not to share my view for their own reasons, though that does not mean they are right or wrong, but in time the EAL teaching model will be the norm. I have exhausted my views on this matter and will not be drawn into an argument, so for now I will take a back seat and read others comments with interest.
 
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What the hell is EAL? Stinks of Domestic Installer to me!

The EAL equivalent to the C&G 2391/2394+2395 is pure Mickey Mousery, plain and simple!

There are those with half a brain cell (mainly career changers) that have no technical knowledge that go on to pass the 2391/2394+2395 after being taught by rote and being fed past paper by past paper, but that percentage is still thankfully rather low. Give anyone of any level a book to take into an exam with them and anyone can pass it though?!

The 2391 was never designed to be a stand alone qualification, you were supposed to know how to test and inspect without it, taking the exams would then mean that you had written proof of testing knowledge, ie. You can prove on paper that you can put into practice what you have learned over the years. It was supposed to sort the wheat from the chaff, I suppose it still does to a very very small degree. The EAL has been designed however to be a stand alone qualification as it is aimed at those who have very little experience testing and inspecting. This is why the course is longer and the exam ten times easier with it being open book!

Industry recognised my ar$e! I'm an employer and if someone came looking to me for a job with an EAL qual they'd get laughed out the door! I want people coming to me who have at least attempted to keep some valuable knowledge in their heads as opposed to relying on a book that they can't even interpret for information! You don't need to look very far to point the finger of blame at an organisation that is at least partly responsible for the catastrophic deskilling of our industry than EAL! If EAL quals become the norm in future, there will be some very rich C&G qualified sparks out there!

What next, the EAL level 4 design course? A ten week course, a 5 hour design project and a free copy of EAL's design software thrown in to help them on their merry way?!?!

What a joke!
 
I'm about to complete (hopefully) my 1st year of 3yrs at college to become a fully qualified Electical Installer. All colleges that I contacted prior to starting advised me that they no longer use C&G, and use EAL, as the standards had dropped etc. As EAL standards are NVQ level 3 throughout, rather than being level 2 and progressing to level 3, the end result of the qualification seems to be the same (hence why JIB accept it). Well I bloody well hope so after the 3 years and £1,000's I'll be spending on gaining the qualifications.
 
Your college are talking nonsense. The old C&G 2330 was two years at level 2 and one year at level 3. The new C&G 2365 (the knowledge unit part of the C&G 2375) is at level 3 throughout. The only reason they are using EAL is because they are cheaper than C&G and being supposedly industry recognised (which they aren't in all honesty) allows further education providers to run them as the full ticket.
 
WHY oh WHY can't their just beat one industry recognised qualification body, one industry scheme, one way to become an electrician...

It's not rocket science.

Take other lines of life .... wonder what the goverment would say if someone tried to set-up and challenge, say, the DVLA. Wouldn't happen would it!
 
I don't see why employers would (and do) discriminate against the EAL qualifications if the JIB doesn't? It is bloody worrying if it then hinders me later down the line when I'm looking for work etc, have spent 3 years at college and am thousands in debt to the qualification.
 
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