EAL Course in Inspection and Testing

[markc123]

I don't see why employers would (and do) discriminate against the EAL qualifications if the JIB doesn't? It is bloody worrying if it then hinders me later down the line when I'm looking for work etc, have spent 3 years at college and am thousands in debt to the qualification.

The EAL Inspection and Testing qualification is open-book, meaning you have all the answers in front of you.

The C+G Inspection and Testing qualification is closed-book, meaning if you don't know it you aint passing ...

Put that to your tutor, im sure when you realise that you can see why people discriminate against the EAL...

- - - Updated - - -

Although having said that, from what was said earlier about the C+G it unforunatley looks like they're soon to be discrimiated against aswell!

The whole system is a farce!

 

[Skimpy Wan]

The flip side to an open book exam is they can ask you anything and it has to be 100% correct as the information is there at your fingertips, rather than being a slightly more open question / answer.

 

[markc123]

The flip side to an open book exam is they can ask you anything and it has to be 100% correct as the information is there at your fingertips, rather than being a slightly more open question / answer.

You still have to use the exact correct terminology in the closed book exam's aswell.

Personally, i can't see any benefit to an open book exam, or these multiple-choice nonsense's. I mean multiple-choice ... if ure extremley lucky, you can pass it without knowing the foggiest about electrics... if i ever win the lottery i'll pay for one of my non-electrician mates too sit the 17th multiple-choice joke exam, be interesting too see the result.

 

[D Skelton]

I've always thought the 17th edition exam should be closed book! Open book exams have no value to them whatsoever!

 

[Badged01]

The trouble with "open book" or "closed book" exams, whichever one you take, I think you can guarantee a few good years down the line you wont still be able to remember everything you knew for the exam and will need to consult the "book" -- so your real life problem will become an open book solution (exam)!

But if you still can remember everything from so many years ago (and I can't) you have one hell of a mind and are in the wrong profession ...... you should be making big bucks using that brain! Unless of course you are just in the game for the love of it and money is pretty meaningless to you!!

 

[pitkin2020]

I'm on the EAL level 2 course and I agree with some of the arguments for and against.

Open book, well I see this as a non issue. It's a heavily regulated industry and just because you think you know doesn't mean you shouldn't refer to the regs to confirm. Whilst doing the exams it's open book for ONE of the exams and yes the answers are in it but you have to understand what it actually means and how to interpret it. If your on site and never refer to the books when doing a job you haven't done before or a Long while your either a genius or your ego is far too big. It's about making sure people continually refer to the regs.

Exams online multiple choice, personally for some topics like fixings etc this is fine. More technical stuff I do think they should be written so you can actually show an understanding rather than just a best guess. I believe level 3 is more written than multiple choice.

It is an industry recognised qualification but it doesn't have the history c&g does, but it will in the as c&g aren't what they used to be. Unfortunately it's more about the pass mark for ALL courses now rather than the actual quality of the student at the end.

Pass is a pass and that's all they care about. From a student who is actually doing ok on the course I can't distinguish myself from the guy who is literally scraping through. If we both pass on paper we are equal and in that respect c&g is no different.

If your an employer and you are employing a c&g qualified guy over EAL that's your choice but it doesn't actually mean your getting a better trained person. In my college it was c&g until a while back the lecturers are teaching the same information just a different qualification at the end.

 

[D Skelton]

If your an employer and you are employing a c&g qualified guy over EAL that's your choice but it doesn't actually mean your getting a better trained person.

With regards to the testing and inspection qualification, yes it does! End of!

 

[pitkin2020]

With regards to the testing and inspection qualification, yes it does! End of!

Really both approved courses so just because you say it's so doesn't mean it's so lol

 

[D Skelton]

Really both approved courses so just because you say it's so doesn't mean it's so lol

No, you're quite right, just because I say so doesn't make it so, but evidently, open book exams have always been easier than closed book exams. The C&G exam tests your fundamental knowledge of testing and inspection procedures, the EAL exam tests your knowledge of how to read and interpret a book.

The latter is clearly the easier option! How can this be arguable?!

I feel sorry for you mate because whoever sold you EAL for your T&I qual sold you a lie! Despite what they tell you, EAL is not industry recognised and is widely viewed as a joke. The only people who accept EAL are the scam schemes who frankly, would accept any old crap as an excuse to sign you up and take your money.

 

[pitkin2020]

See like you that was what I thought so I did my homework. I spoke with several large companies in the area to seek their opinion. At the end of the day I'm likely to be working for them and they were all happy with either EAL or c&g.

The main issue is no provider in this area within an hours travel
Is doing c&g. I would have had to do it as a distance learning course which is a joke.

Of course an open book exam will be easier but the exam isn't based on your memory it's about doing it correctly and to the regulations. If your attitude is you don't need the book the your a genius. You'd never learn all the regulations in the time scale but you will learn a lot fair do.

Just because you have the on site guide there in front of you not everything in the exam is found in the on site guide the only book you can take in. Even then when it's there you still need to know how to calculate and use the information correctly.

Also if it was so much easier the pass rate would be 100% for everyone that takes the exam surely?? Which isn't the case, if you don't know what to look for in the book or how I interpret it then it's useless

 

[D Skelton]

See like you that was what I thought so I did my homework. I spoke with several large companies in the area to seek their opinion. At the end of the day I'm likely to be working for them and they were all happy with either EAL or c&g.

Yes but are they specifically after a T&I qual? If I put an advert out for an installation electrician and had a requirement that they had passed a C&G core qualification and an NVQ level 3 or equivalent then whether they held a C&G or an EAL T&I qual would be irrelevant. As long as they held the qualification that I wanted then that's all that matters.

The other thing you might want to factor in to the equation is who it is you sopke to at those companies, because if it was some office lacky then they're unlikely to know what you're talking about anyway. If it was a director and he is prepared to accept EAL or C&G quals then I would be willing to bet that he/she holds neither, thus has no knowledge of the difference.

The main issue is no provider in this area within an hours travel
Is doing c&g. I would have had to do it as a distance learning course which is a joke.

I would travel as long as it took to get C&G over EAL!

Of course an open book exam will be easier

There we go then, problem solved, the EAL T&I exam is as much use to an employer when it comes to employing someone knowledgable in testing and inspection procedures as a chocolate fire guard!

but the exam isn't based on your memory it's about doing it correctly and to the regulations. If your attitude is you don't need the book the your a genius. You'd never learn all the regulations in the time scale but you will learn a lot fair do.

Then any old muppet can pick up the book and pass. Not everyone is going to have fundamental knowledge of T&I are they and can pass a closed book exam? In fact only about 10% of electricians do!

Just because you have the on site guide there in front of you not everything in the exam is found in the on site guide the only book you can take in. Even then when it's there you still need to know how to calculate and use the information correctly.

"Here you are Mr Jones, now, I know you have no formal training whatsoever but in order to be a heart surgeon you have to pass this one exam", "Ok, but I won't know the answers will I?", "Don't worry, here's a book on everything you need to know about heart surgery, not all the answers will be in that book but most of them will be".......

"Congratulations, you passed, you are now a qualified heart surgeon!"

Also if it was so much easier the pass rate would be 100% for everyone that takes the exam surely?? Which isn't the case, if you don't know what to look for in the book or how I interpret it then it's useless

Erm, actually, every single training provider that boasts a 100% pass rate for their testing and inspection trainees is teaching the EAL. They could not boast that in a million years with the C&G one!

 

[pitkin2020]

It's pointless arguing with you it's your opinion and I'm not goin to be working you. The people I am
Likely to be working for accept it an that's all that is relevant.

I don't know the testing and inspection exam is open book haven't got that far yet but til be backed with actual practical assessments I expect like the course I'm currently on.

Wow you must be pretty rich if you could afford to travel so far all day to attend college everyday. I have to work so travelling to Exeter approx an hour to an hour and half away four times a week isn't feasable

 

[D Skelton]

It's pointless arguing with you it's your opinion and I'm not goin to be working you.

Erm, nope, not just my opinion mate. Fact. That's why it's pointless arguing. Open book is easier than closed book, even you agreed on this. EALs T&I qual has never been and probably will never be industry recognised. I'd advise you to spend your time looking for somewhere to do your level 3 I&T with a C&G centre rather than getting shirty with us on here just because we are being truthful about your inferior qualification.

The people I am likely to be working for accept it an that's all that is relevant.

They probably only accept it because it isn't relevant to the job application, I say this because you state you are on the level 2 course, which is pretty much a worthless qualification anyway. If I&T quals were actually relevant to your job application they'd want to see level 3 I&T quals minimum. That's why I say when you get round to doing your level 3 T&I quals, make sure they're C&G!

I don't know the testing and inspection exam is open book haven't got that far yet but til be backed with actual practical assessments I expect like the course I'm currently on.

It is open book, that is the problem, and so is the practical.

Wow you must be pretty rich if you could afford to travel so far all day to attend college everyday. I have to work so travelling to Exeter approx an hour to an hour and half away four times a week isn't feasable

For the six or so days it would take to get a C&G T&I qual over an EAL one you don't need to be that rich do you?!? In a minoirity of cases you just have to be prepared to travel a little further.

 

[pitkin2020]

Where have you got 6 extra days from on a full time course?

 

[D Skelton]

T&I courses are 6/7/8 days only, I'm not talking about a full time 3 year course, nor are you given the title of the thread?

 

[SirKit Breaker]

I don't know if i have replied to this earlier, but as i work for a centre that is both EAL and C&G accredited, i will.

There is no difference to the requirements of the EAL or C&G qualifications, the assessments and centre resources are identical, the qualification is identical. They both carry the same weight. People can have their opinions and preferences, but these are the facts about the quals.

The EAL written exams are open book, and i think the online one is as well. The practical tasks are open book anyway, as there has to be clean copies of BS7671, GN3 and the OSG available to candidates whether they are doing EAL or C&G.

The C&G closed book exams is an exam on what you can remember, and some of the crap they ask is badly worded, and not relevant to electrical inspection and testing. That aside, who in there right mind needs to recall from memory 3 locations as defined in BS7671 that in certain parts of them must not have a TNCS system! I am sorry but this does not need memorising, neither does things like voltage drop tables or insulation resistance tables etc etc etc, this is why we refer to reference books, the memorising comes with experience and repetition. Is it really important to remember Electricity at Work REGULATIONS, Health and safety at work ACT, and then get shafted for getting a word or two mixed up……I don't think so! so what is the crime in looking it up. There is no Electrician out there who is crap just because they can't remember to get a word in the right place, but this minor slip up will have no doubt been the difference between a pass or a fail for someone, and i personally think it stinks.

The EAL way tests your ability to check and find out the correct way of doing things if you are unsure. I agree we should know all of the basics such as the testing sequence, proving dead etc, but as for having to remember it all, well thats just bollox in my opinion.

For all of you out there who slate the NICEIC, think yourselves lucky that you don't need to deal with C&G.


Rant over,

 

[D Skelton]

They both carry the same weight.

You have to say that, you are delivering it!

The EAL written exams are open book, and i think the online one is as well. The practical tasks are open book anyway, as there has to be clean copies of BS7671, GN3 and the OSG available to candidates whether they are doing EAL or C&G.

The C&G closed book exams is an exam on what you can remember, and some of the crap they ask is badly worded, and not relevant to electrical inspection and testing. That aside, who in there right mind needs to recall from memory 3 locations as defined in BS7671 that in certain parts of them must not have a TNCS system! I am sorry but this does not need memorising, neither does things like voltage drop tables or insulation resistance tables etc etc etc, this is why we refer to reference books, the memorising comes with experience and repetition. Is it really important to remember Electricity at Work REGULATIONS, Health and safety at work ACT, and then get shafted for getting a word or two mixed up……I don't think so! so what is the crime in looking it up. There is no Electrician out there who is crap just because they can't remember to get a word in the right place, but this minor slip up will have no doubt been the difference between a pass or a fail for someone, and i personally think it stinks.

But it is important to remember the correct sequence of tests to carry out on a ring final circuit for example. It is important to remember the process to follow prior to carrying out inspection and testing. It is important to remember how to correctly set inspection and testing samples. It is important to remember the correct procedure for determining whether or not supplementary bonding in a bathroom is adequate.

The EAL way tests your ability to check and find out the correct way of doing things if you are unsure. I agree we should know all of the basics such as the testing sequence, proving dead etc, but as for having to remember it all, well thats just bollox in my opinion.

The EAL way tests your ability to read a book!

For all of you out there who slate the NICEIC, think yourselves lucky that you don't need to deal with C&G.

I agree, I know a fair bit about dealing with C&G, that said, C&G still have more weight than any other awarding body in this trade!

Would you rather a degree from Oxford or from Gary's Degrees Ltd?

 

[Sparkie30]

You have to say that, you are delivering it!



But it is important to remember the correct sequence of tests to carry out on a ring final circuit for example. It is important to remember the process to follow prior to carrying out inspection and testing. It is important to remember how to correctly set inspection and testing samples. It is important to remember the correct procedure for determining whether or not supplementary bonding in a bathroom is adequate.



The EAL way tests your ability to read a book!



I agree, I know a fair bit about dealing with C&G, that said, C&G still have more weight than any other awarding body in this trade!

Would you rather a degree from Oxford or from Gary's Degrees Ltd?

Jesus mate, you don't like it when people have different opinion to you.
I totally agree with sirkit in regards to C&G, they will fail you unless you answer exactly as it's on their books.

 

[D Skelton]

I couldn't give a monkeys if someone disagrees with me, that is what debate is for, and that is why I like forums like this.

I very much respect Howard and his knowledge and would never accuse him of talking $hite, but I will happily and respectfully disagree with him on this point.

 

[dazza1981]

I couldn't give a monkeys if someone disagrees with me, that is what debate is for, and that is why I like forums like this.

I very much respect Howard and his knowledge and would never accuse him of talking $hite, but I will happily and respectfully disagree with him on this point.

Agreed this forum would be a little boring if everybody agreed and there were no debates.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

I couldn't give a monkeys if someone disagrees with me, that is what debate is for, and that is why I like forums like this.

I very much respect Howard and his knowledge and would never accuse him of talking $hite, but I will happily and respectfully disagree with him on this point.

And i have to agree with his earlier comment, C&G will always be the preferred badge to have, at least for the foreseeable future anyway.

Cheers……………Howard

 

[namco]

Hello all, my first post so go easy on me.
I qualified with c&g 17th edition and 2392, 2391. And EAL level 2
I'm now looking to join NAPIT (pockets aren't deep enough to join NICEIC), but napit tell me they have updated their requirements and ask me to update my EAL qualification to level 3, which they can provide (240+vat).
Now after reading this long thread with many good points, are what napit asking for just a way to get me to go on their course, I understand that qualifications need to be updated and reassessed from time to time but from certain comments about how the eal qualification is a watered down c&g 2391, are napit just trying to get more money out of me, like everyone else in the system.

Many thanks

 

[LVSparks]

I agree with D Skelton and the others. This is a mickey mouse course.
Im 2391, I studied hard and long for this exam and this was after years of experience.
30 -40% pass rate says it all.
A lad in my firm has just passed this open book multiple choice exam(what a joke lol). He has no experience of real life periodic jobs, only initial verifications which any decent spark can do without a qual.
This qualification will put electricians out on jobs doing periodic inspections and missing valuable observations etc and clients will be none the wiser.

 

[grandfortune]

i also passed my 2394 and 95 closed book exam not a fart arsed dumbed down version

i know plenty of employers that wouldnt have you on that 2391 only

 

[trev]

i know plenty of employers that wouldnt have you on that 2391 only

As the older lads leave the trade the 2394/5 will become the "go to" I&T qual. I've got it on pretty good authority that it's not much different and is equally valuable.

 

[jamsey]

As the older lads leave the trade the 2394/5 will become the "go to" I&T qual. I've got it on pretty good authority that it's not much different and is equally valuable.

im a old fart been in the trade 15 years and always been told that because i can do it i dont need the qualification (piece of paper) but now im back in the job market alls i get are questions like "have you got this certificate?" i am booked on the next EAL course in my area as its cheaper and the NIC told me they recognise it they are the main reasons for me and ill let you know how i get on and what its like...

 

[Leesparkykent]

im a old fart been in the trade 15 years and always been told that because i can do it i dont need the qualification (piece of paper) but now im back in the job market alls i get are questions like "have you got this certificate?" i am booked on the next EAL course in my area as its cheaper and the NIC told me they recognise it they are the main reasons for me and ill let you know how i get on and what its like...

Its open book exam isn't it the EAL testing and inspection qualification? IMO it doesn't hold the same weight as the C&G 2391 or 2394/5.

 

[trev]

The NIC may well recognise it mate. The thing is though, the NIC are not the ones who will be giving you a job.
15 years in the trade does not make you an old fart either. You'll be a slight breeze after 20, strong flatulence after 25 then 30 will give you proper Old Fart status.

 

[Des 56]

30 will give you proper Old Fart status.

I'm afraid I'm at the stage where even old fart is but a distant memory:bigcry:

 

[Engineer54]

I honestly can't see the point (and never have done) of open book exams, what are they actually proving to either the student or to anyone else, ...that you can read a book?? One thing's for sure, none of these open book examinations warrant a level 3 rating. Oh and it might seem like bollox to some, but the whole point of an examination is to gauge what you have learnt and have retained in the brain box after completing a subjects course!! Hell it's been the basis of examinations for hundreds of years in just about every country in the world, but now it's all bollox is it?? I think we all know where the bollox lay's!! lol!!

It seems that everything in the world of education from schools to colleges, now resolves around making things easier to enable those not so gifted able to pass exams that realistically shouldn't of been offered the course(s) in the first place.

 

[ian.settle1]

I honestly can't see the point (and never have done) of open book exams, what are they actually proving to either the student or to anyone else, ...that you can read a book?? One thing's for sure, none of these open book examinations warrant a level 3 rating. Oh and it might seem like bollox to some, but the whole point of an examination is to gauge what you have learnt and have retained in the brain box after completing a subjects course!! Hell it's been the basis of examinations for hundreds of years in just about every country in the world, but now it's all bollox is it?? I think we all know where the bollox lay's!! lol!!

It seems that everything in the world of education from schools to colleges, now resolves around making things easier to enable those not so gifted able to pass exams that realistically shouldn't of been offered the course(s) in the first place.

The 17th edition is an open book exam as it is not what you know but one of you know were to look for the correct reg.

Personally I think if it was a closed book exam hardly any one would pass.

 

[Engineer54]

The 17th edition is an open book exam as it is not what you know but one of you know were to look for the correct reg.

Personally I think if it was a closed book exam hardly any one would pass.

I just find that excuse so lame, why if that's the case even bother with a final exam??.... Still not worth, with any stretching of the imagination a level 3 rating, that's just a pure nonsense!!


You're probably right, and seeing as this is basically the main qualification these 17 day and Electrical Trainee actually hold, it may have served to seriously curtail the numbers of these chancers if it were a closed book exam!! ...lol!!

 

[UNG]

I honestly can't see the point (and never have done) of open book exams, what are they actually proving to either the student or to anyone else, ...that you can read a book?? One thing's for sure, none of these open book examinations warrant a level 3 rating. Oh and it might seem like bollox to some, but the whole point of an examination is to gauge what you have learnt and have retained in the brain box after completing a subjects course!! Hell it's been the basis of examinations for hundreds of years in just about every country in the world, but now it's all bollox is it?? I think we all know where the bollox lay's!! lol!!

It seems that everything in the world of education from schools to colleges, now resolves around making things easier to enable those not so gifted able to pass exams that realistically shouldn't of been offered the course(s) in the first place.

Have never understood all this level 2, level 3 to give a comparison of knowledge level between various industries having a level 3 in coffee making has no comparison in the electrical industry as it's part of a first year apprentice's duties the thing is an exam is what it is it is a test of retained knowledge

It can't be that far away that the exam options for answers will be

1. Use the book
2. Ask a forum
3. Phone a friend
4. All of the above

The problem with the industry is that people taking courses are being taught to pass the exam and not to understand why the answer is what it is, all too many places now run the course based on past papers and getting students to learn the answers and regurgitate them parrot fashion in the exam

 

[Engineer54]

Have never understood all this level 2, level 3 to give a comparison of knowledge level between various industries having a level 3 in coffee making has no comparison in the electrical industry as it's part of a first year apprentice's duties the thing is an exam is what it is it is a test of retained knowledge

It can't be that far away that the exam options for answers will be

1. Use the book
2. Ask a forum
3. Phone a friend
4. All of the above

The problem with the industry is that people taking courses are being taught to pass the exam and not to understand why the answer is what it is, all too many places now run the course based on past papers and getting students to learn the answers and regurgitate them parrot fashion in the exam

Couldn't agree more with you

 

[CH STEWART]

Hi I completed the Initial Verification and Inspection and Testing course at the NICEIC training facility at Chesterfield, the course content is the same whether you opt for the C&G exams or the EAL exams and just to clarify the EAL is not open book and the NICEIC recognise both qualifications.

 

[Des 56]

Hi I completed the Initial Verification and Inspection and Testing course at the NICEIC training facility at Chesterfield, the course content is the same whether you opt for the C&G exams or the EAL exams and just to clarify the EAL is not open book and the NICEIC recognise both qualifications.

I fail to understand except maybe profiteering, how or why this initial verification ticket exists or why it needs promoting as some sort of industry achievement

It is a natural part of the training of any electrician, he most certainly should not need such a qualification if that training is adequate
Where did this particular verification nonsense begin?

 

[ian.settle1]

Hi I completed the Initial Verification and Inspection and Testing course at the NICEIC training facility at Chesterfield, the course content is the same whether you opt for the C&G exams or the EAL exams and just to clarify the EAL is not open book and the NICEIC recognise both qualifications.

What the NICEIC recognise and what an employer recognise are 2 totally different things.

 

[Sparkie30]

Hi I completed the Initial Verification and Inspection and Testing course at the NICEIC training facility at Chesterfield, the course content is the same whether you opt for the C&G exams or the EAL exams and just to clarify the EAL is not open book and the NICEIC recognise both qualifications.

EAL is an open book exam, my mate did it.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hi I completed the Initial Verification and Inspection and Testing course at the NICEIC training facility at Chesterfield, the course content is the same whether you opt for the C&G exams or the EAL exams and just to clarify the EAL is not open book and the NICEIC recognise both qualifications.

Clearly states open book exam! You get to take guidance not 3 in the exam with you.

EAL Level 3 Award In The Periodic Inspection, Testing And Certification Of Electrical Installations SPECIAL OFFER - Total Electrical Training

 

[Engineer54]

Hi I completed the Initial Verification and Inspection and Testing course at the NICEIC training facility at Chesterfield, the course content is the same whether you opt for the C&G exams or the EAL exams and just to clarify the EAL is not open book and the NICEIC recognise both qualifications.

They also recognise 17 day whizzers and electrical trainee's as being trained to competent status!! Now what does that tell you about NICEIC??

 

[Adam_glover18]

I have read threw all the thread and there seems to me most people think the eal version is a waste of time and everyone who passes it are useless too.I find that rather irritating because I have done that course not my choice but my employer chose it.
I believe if you can pass the eal exam you can pass the c+g version as long as you put the time and effort in.
I work along side lads who have the 2391 exam and there no different from myself.
To be fair I had my reservations about the course but the jib and my company recognize the qualification so I suppose it's not that bad off a qualification.
If you read threw all of my reply and still awake you did well lol

 

[Leesparkykent]

I have read threw all the thread and there seems to me most people think the eal version is a waste of time and everyone who passes it are useless too.I find that rather irritating because I have done that course not my choice but my employer chose it.
I believe if you can pass the eal exam you can pass the c+g version as long as you put the time and effort in.
I work along side lads who have the 2391 exam and there no different from myself.
To be fair I had my reservations about the course but the jib and my company recognize the qualification so I suppose it's not that bad off a qualification.
If you read threw all of my reply and still awake you did well lol

Thats fair enough IMO you would be mad to turn down a qualification that you're employer is willing to pay for. I don't think an exam where you get to take guidance note 3 in with you can be compared as equal to the 2391.

 

[Adam_glover18]

I totally agree with you its not a equal to the closed book exam but i think it doesn't make me less of a spark than someone with the 2391 I can only do what exam is out infront of me lol . I would of personally chose c+g because it's the more known exam but you still need to know what to do to pass the exam

 

[charlie76]

Alright - Old thread but some interesting views and also some narrow minded views. I am currently considering the C+G2394/95 and also the EAL equivalent. The training centre i'm looking at offer either one for a snip over £1000. I rang and asked them why the EAL is open book and surely it is easier.

The answer is OFQUAL the regulator has said to C+G and all training providers that the exams should be open book, C+G have decided to ignore the regulator and remain closed book. The reason they are pushing for open book is not a money making scam as OFQUAL do not make their money by churning out "Low grade sparks", the reason they say is that in a real situation on site you have an issue, you can turn to reference the regs, GN's etc so having a closed book exam is not realistic. A valid point i'm sure!

My personal view is that the fundamental electrical theory should be engrained in your head and you should be able to answer a theory based question closed book. With regards regulations, testing practices and procedures etc, I think you would be foolish to think memorising it all is a positive. With changes in practice and procedure issued in new editions and amendments, you need to be making continual reference to the current editions of these publications, not pulling up something from memory you learnt in the 4th edition of BS7671 issued in 1903.

The industry is dynamic and so are practices, procedures, materials, technologies used. You need to be continually educating yourself, not memorising the current standards and practices because you feel it is more prestigious to sit an exam which forces you to recall from memory the current regulations.

In summary, and in my view, if the standard and level of questioning is the same on the C+G and the EAL, I would say there would be a better chance of achieving a higher pass on the EAL. However I think the EAL concept is more realistic to working life in that you should have reference to books to help resolve a technical issue.

 

[shanky887614]

Alright - Old thread but some interesting views and also some narrow minded views. I am currently considering the C+G2394/95 and also the EAL equivalent. The training centre i'm looking at offer either one for a snip over £1000. I rang and asked them why the EAL is open book and surely it is easier.

The answer is OFQUAL the regulator has said to C+G and all training providers that the exams should be open book, C+G have decided to ignore the regulator and remain closed book. The reason they are pushing for open book is not a money making scam as OFQUAL do not make their money by churning out "Low grade sparks", the reason they say is that in a real situation on site you have an issue, you can turn to reference the regs, GN's etc so having a closed book exam is not realistic. A valid point i'm sure!

My personal view is that the fundamental electrical theory should be engrained in your head and you should be able to answer a theory based question closed book. With regards regulations, testing practices and procedures etc, I think you would be foolish to think memorising it all is a positive. With changes in practice and procedure issued in new editions and amendments, you need to be making continual reference to the current editions of these publications, not pulling up something from memory you learnt in the 4th edition of BS7671 issued in 1903.

The industry is dynamic and so are practices, procedures, materials, technologies used. You need to be continually educating yourself, not memorising the current standards and practices because you feel it is more prestigious to sit an exam which forces you to recall from memory the current regulations.

In summary, and in my view, if the standard and level of questioning is the same on the C+G and the EAL, I would say there would be a better chance of achieving a higher pass on the EAL. However I think the EAL concept is more realistic to working life in that you should have reference to books to help resolve a technical issue.

good points but it doesnt stop the stubbon old goats that want to see certificates awarded by city and guilds, im torn if im honest i dont think you will have a lot of time to reference things in the 2394/2395 because of the exam length but i would happily be proven wrong (im planning on doing it this year)

 

[Skimpy Wan]

Some interesting (and very concerning) opinions on this thread.

Originally I posted in this thread a couple of years ago, but I've just re-read the entire thread as I'm (hopefully) a couple of months away from completing my 3 year apprenticeship. As I have self-funded my studies it is still worrying that EAL is not considered to be "worth the paper it is written on" by (some) individuals / employers, despite JIB & NICEIC recommending EAL as their preferred training provider.

I take on board people's opions of the open / closed book debate as I see both sides of the coin most days on site ... in the real world you would confirm via BS7671 / OSG / GN3 if you need to. However, I still know many electricians that don't have 17th edition books, let alone the updated qualifications. Therefore, just because "it's always been like that & that's how I learnt it 36 years ago" is a BS argument in my opinion!!

My concerns is that I may contact individuals / companies who share similar views to some individuals on this forum and I do not know whether to gain a C&G I&T qualification or EAL. I say this as pretty much all colleges in the South of England have left C&G and only use EAL for providing qualifications. Thus, potentially costing me work in the future because I may not "support the same team as you"!

 

[Skimpy Wan]

Having just done some research on C&G I&T qualifications, I came across this little beauty ...
"This is a full time 16 week course initially. 7 weeks for level 2, 7 weeks for level 3, 3 days for C&G 2382, 2 days for C&G 2377, 5 days for a combined C&G 2394/2395 and 1 day allocated for the practical Inspection & testing. The NVQ and AM2 will follow on from here but the dates for assessment are more likely to be determined by you. The cost is £8195.00 including VAT" - this is offered by https://www.ableskills.co.uk/electrical-courses/jib-gold-card-electrical-training-course/

So it seems to me that C&G are also offering a backdoor into the industry which will allow (potentially) inexperienced electricians to show a C&G qualification to the industry - which seems to be prefer by some.

My point is that if all providers are offering shorter quicker qualifications that is the industries fault, not the trainee / apprentice. We can only work with the tools given to us by colleges etc and the knowledge / experience of individuals willing to give people time to learn / work alongside them.

 

[Skimpy Wan]

Also just done some C&G closed book passed exams (without having books to hand) and they are in no way different to EAL.

I guess therefore that I will be paying to gain the C&G 2394 & 2395, rather than EAL I&T qualifications, just to keep the "old school" happy & not hinder my chance of gaining work in the future (as having done some employment / job searches the majority of individuals as for 2394 & 2395 qualifications, specifically, rather than started "or equivalent").

 

[shanky887614]

Also just done some C&G closed book passed exams (without having books to hand) and they are in no way different to EAL.

I guess therefore that I will be paying to gain the C&G 2394 & 2395, rather than EAL I&T qualifications, just to keep the "old school" happy & not hinder my chance of gaining work in the future (as having done some employment / job searches the majority of individuals as for 2394 & 2395 qualifications, specifically, rather than started "or equivalent").

look at it this was, the only guys in the office in a lot of electrical firms are old buggers or crap with there hands ^^

the exception is if they own the firm

 

[Skimpy Wan]

It just makes it more of a minefield when trying to get qualified & then look for work if companies dispute what the industry states / permits. It goes back to people only knowing that they knew as the point they qualified and not accepting changing within the industry - this goes for regs / equipment / qualifications, the lot!