Earth Rod - Advice please!

[Kaydee]

Hi, I am not an electrician, but need some advice from one, if you wouldn't mind helping, please?
We've just paid £3,500.00 to have a 3-bed semi completely rewired and are told the job is now finished. (We paid half up front, they now want the other half).
Outside the front of the property, they've installed what they've told us is an 'earth rod'. There's a long piece of thick, black, plastic tubing, leading to a unit that is fixed to the ground.
It comes almost onto the driveway, right in front of an attractive bush to the side of the front door and looks really unsightly.
We questioned them about it and were told it was 'regulation' that it had to be installed that way, a metre from the house, in a straight line.
I haven't seen anything like this in front of any other property, including ones that have been recently rewired, but want to check my facts before challenging them on this.
Is this normal? Can it/should it be buried underground?

 

[telectrix]

if you have not got a supplier's earth facility, then the earth rod is correct. however it could be made less obtrusive by digging in an "earth pit" so that its flush with the ground.

earth pit - Google Search - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=earth+pit&tbm=isch&imgil=thNQqWcW_ER86M%253A%253BxBmoQq2KAeLBMM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fadabelectrical.com%25252Fproduct_info.php%25253Fproducts_id%2525253D298&source=iu&pf=m&fir=thNQqWcW_ER86M%253A%252CxBmoQq2KAeLBMM%252C_&usg=__5bu-dNVdKWvCHPRjZD0KDcKF7DA%3D&biw=1920&bih=950&ved=0ahUKEwjNtda_r6nVAhXkIMAKHc1kBiYQyjcIQg&ei=H9B5WY2qIuTBgAbNyZmwAg#imgrc=thNQqWcW_ER86M:

and the plastic conduit can be buries also.

 

[Kaydee]

Thank you, telectrix, that's the sort of thing I HAVE seen outside other houses.
In your opinion, would the total cost we have been charged cover the cost of this? We've had new board put in, 4 spotlights in the kitchen and the rest is just basic rewiring with a couple of extra sockets.
I'm only asking because I want to be prepared if I challenge the electician and he says it'll cost extra.

 

[westward10]

Can you show a picture of you electric service head.

 

[Kaydee]

I'm afraid I have no idea what that is, westward10

 

[bigspark17]

Can you post a picture of the earth rod's current set up? Is your propery in a remote location or do you have other properties close by.? Hard to comment on the price without a full spec but it doesnt sound that unreasonable.

 

[Midwest]

There's going to be a lot of unhappy customers, when the 18th sets in!

 

[Kaydee]

I'm new to this and just trying to work out how I post a pic.
House is semi-detached in street near to city centre.

 

[telectrix]

seeing this from both sides, as it were,

1. there is payment outstanding, so from your point, you have a bargaining chip. you could insist that he alters it to get paid.

2. from his point of view, he's done what he quoted for, so is entitled to the outstanding payment.

playing devil's advocate, considering the above, I'd advise that you speak with him, explain your disappointment with how the earth rod has been installed, and come to a n agreement to alter it whereby you pay him a bit extra, albeit not as much as it would normally cost. the key word is negotiation. then you'll maintain a good relationship for any future works required.

 

[Midwest]

Below is there a box marked 'Upload s File'? It may be because your a new member, and have insufficient posts to upload pics?

 

[David M]

Without sounding out of turn, the electrician should have known that an earth rod needed installing upon surveying the property during quoting purposes. The method you described is quite common and tends to be the cheapest easiest solution. This said, personally I would have discussed this with the client prior to commencing work and made provisions in the quote to install the rod within the regs as per clients spec. As its a "basic" re-wire and we know nothing of your agreed contract with the electrician, its difficult to make comment about your situation.
My guess is he/she will advise that the alterations you require will be charged extra to the original quote if nothing was agreed prior.

 

[telectrix]

you post pics by using the "upload a file" next to the reply button, but i think you need a minimum number of posts to be able to do.

 

[telectrix]

I'd also like to see a pic. has he installed a decent rod, or just a 3ft. "twig". and is the Ra/Ze suitably low.

 

[westward10]

I'm afraid I have no idea what that is, westward10

It will be where the supply cable connects to, a black or grey box looking enclosure from here wires to your meter.

 

[telectrix]

service head or cut-out:

contains the supplier's fuse.

 

[telectrix]

going by the OP's location, shall we send pete999 round on his mobility scooter.

 

[Kaydee]

Without sounding out of turn, the electrician should have known that an earth rod needed installing upon surveying the property during quoting purposes. The method you described is quite common and tends to be the cheapest easiest solution. This said, personally I would have discussed this with the client prior to commencing work and made provisions in the quote to install the rod within the regs as per clients spec. As its a "basic" re-wire and we know nothing of your agreed contract with the electrician, its difficult to make comment about your situation.
My guess is he/she will advise that the alterations you require will be charged extra to the original quote if nothing was agreed prior.

I think you're probably right David, but as he knew we were preparing the house for marketing it, I would have hoped he would have discussed this sort of thing with us, which he didn't!

 

[Kaydee]

Without sounding out of turn, the electrician should have known that an earth rod needed installing upon surveying the property during quoting purposes. The method you described is quite common and tends to be the cheapest easiest solution. This said, personally I would have discussed this with the client prior to commencing work and made provisions in the quote to install the rod within the regs as per clients spec. As its a "basic" re-wire and we know nothing of your agreed contract with the electrician, its difficult to make comment about your situation.
My guess is he/she will advise that the alterations you require will be charged extra to the original quote if nothing was agreed prior.

I think you're probably right David, but as he knew we were preparing the house for marketing it, I would have hoped he would have discussed this sort of thing with us, which he didn't!

Can you post a picture of the earth rod's current set up? Is your propery in a remote location or do you have other properties close by.? Hard to comment on the price without a full spec but it doesnt sound that unreasonable.

I'd also like to see a pic. has he installed a decent rod, or just a 3ft. "twig". and is the Ra/Ze suitably low.

 

[Midwest]

Looks okay to me, guess until the bush is cut back!

PS seen worse, lot worse.

 

[Kaydee]

Looks okay to me, guess until the bush is cut back!

Is this normal then? It's just that I've never seen it like this before on other properties.
I'm mainly worried about buyers wondering what it is and what it's doing there.

 

[telectrix]

Looks okay to me, guess until the bush is cut back!

yeah. it's not as bad as i thought. a bit of greenery planted in front would disguise it. bearing in mind that it should be accessible for maintenance purposes.

 

[Pete999]

I'm afraid I have no idea what that is, westward10

Note to my self don't interfere with someone else s thread

 

[Des 56]

There is nothing out of the ordinary with what can be seen.
I suppose an eyesore depends on the perspective of the viewer

 

[telectrix]

Is this normal then? It's just that I've never seen it like this before on other properties.
I'm mainly worried about buyers wondering what it is and what it's doing there.

seen far worse, just a rod banged in with no enclosure whatever. worry not. it's compliant even if you don't like the aesthetics.

 

[Midwest]

It seems you electrician has contained the earth cable in black plastic conduit, to give some form of mechanical protection, i.e. when you cut back that bush.

 

[Kaydee]

Thank you very much, everyone. Seems I've been worrying unnecessarily!

 

[telectrix]

Thank you very much, everyone. Seems I've been worrying unnecessarily!

yeah. nothing to worry about. it's just the look of it you need to get used to.

 

[Midwest]

It seems you electrician has contained the earth cable in black plastic conduit, to give some form of mechanical protection, i.e. when you cut back that bush.

Always remember the father-in-law (god bless) cutting his Sky cable in half, trimming his hedge with new trimmer

 

[telectrix]

haha. he should have utilised some sky hooks.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I am looking forward to trying to tell a customer when the 18th kicks in that they now need a supplementary earth rod to add additional layer of protection to the dno earth.. No doubt they will curse and accuse me of robbing them..... oh the joys of being an electrician

 

[telectrix]

it may be that when the 18th comes out, that will only apply to new installations and maybe rewires.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

it may be that when the 18th comes out, that will only apply to new installations and maybe rewires.

We can but hope!

 

[davesparks]

it may be that when the 18th comes out, that will only apply to new installations and maybe rewires.

I doubt it because the danger that it is there to reduce is more likely to occur in older installations.
I believe the regulation is coming as a reaction to the reported increase of cne conductor faults.

 

[bigspark17]

I think that earth rod set up is poor.. cheap s**t box and not buried.! Id get him to change that even if he wanted some extra money for doing so, but he should have buried the conduit!

 

[Midwest]

I think that earth rod set up is poor.. cheap s**t box and not buried.! Id get him to change that even if he wanted some extra money for doing so, but he should have buried the conduit!

Bury it, how deep? Someone might attack that out of control 'bush' with a shovel.

 

[bigspark17]

In the OP it states in front of an ""attractive bush""... haha

 

[Risteard]

I doubt it because the danger that it is there to reduce is more likely to occur in older installations.
I believe the regulation is coming as a reaction to the reported increase of cne conductor faults.

And long overdue - most of the rest of the world were way ahead with having Earth electrodes on TN-C-S systems.

 

[Midwest]

And long overdue - most of the rest of the world were way ahead with having Earth electrodes on TN-C-S systems.

You explain that to Mrs Miggins when she wants a new socket for her curlers

 

[Dave OCD]

That Mrs Miggins is a good customer of yours Midwest !

 

[NDG Elecs]

I didn't fully follow the 18th edition changes post around a month ago. And I dare say that my concerns were mentioned in it. I don't think it is necessarily a bad idea at all, and it will give me a chance to dust off my rarely used SDS maxi! On the ground though, doing work day to day, I think all it will achieve is my quotes bring undercut hugely. There are plenty of cowboys out there already, and this will only help them IMO.

And I agree that the rod installation in the piccy is pretty tatty. Yeah ok it's in conduit, and the rod is enclosed, but I don't think that it is in a suitable location. Once that vegetation grows it could be forgotten about completely. I would have discussed it with the client and put a proper pit in, at the visible edge of the flowerbed at least.

 

[FatAlan]

Why not just get the DNO to provide a TNCS connection? I'm on at TT system and my Ze was too high. DNO came out and connected up to head to give a TNCS connection. I was advised to disconnect the earth rod as it could result in nuisance tripping.

 

[bigspark17]

They may not always provide a pme facility, how could an earth electrode cause nuisance tripping?? This is why DNO opreatives should stay meter side of installations.

 

[Wilko]

Why not just get the DNO to provide a TNCS connection? I'm on at TT system and my Ze was too high. DNO came out and connected up to head to give a TNCS connection. I was advised to disconnect the earth rod as it could result in nuisance tripping.

Hi Alan - just interested in them advising you to bin the rod, how could it cause nuisance tripping do you reckon?

 

[Midwest]

Why not just get the DNO to provide a TNCS connection? I'm on at TT system and my Ze was too high. DNO came out and connected up to head to give a TNCS connection. I was advised to disconnect the earth rod as it could result in nuisance tripping.

Should of left it in, you might be putting it back in a few years time

 

[FatAlan]

Funnily enough I haven't touched the existing rod and have had no problems with any tripping

 

[FatAlan]

Hi Wilko. Wish I'd asked for more info on the nuisance tripping. No explanation was given.

 

[telectrix]

Hi Wilko. Wish I'd asked for more info on the nuisance tripping. No explanation was given.

that's because there isn'one that will hold water.

 

[westward10]

The rod doesn't cause nuisance tripping this is just the earthing facility, nuisance tripping can occur whatever the earthing system.

 

[telectrix]

even if there isn't one.

 

[FatAlan]

Must admit, thinking about it. The only explanation would be that there would have to be an existing very minor fault to earth that prior to connecting to PME was not large enough to trip the RCD. Does that Logic stack up?