ECA and ESC announce major partnership

[amberleaf]

NICEIC-ENGINEER .

Welcome to the forum . and taking the time to post .

 

[kingeri]

It just seems unfair that Joe Public will search the database and those folks in NAPIT will not come up on it, suggesting to the public that they are in some way less or even not competent.

 

[BlueToBits]

It just seems unfair that Joe Public will search the database and those folks in NAPIT will not come up on it, suggesting to the public that they are in some way less or even not competent.

Welcome to enlightenment. You have 2 options. You stand your ground and complain to anyone who will listen, or you pay your money to the NICEIC or ECA/ELECSA . Why do you think this partnership was created?

 

[Knobhead]

I’ve no use for schemes being retired, nor did I during my 40years working in the industrial field. So looking from the outside I really can’t see any advantages to any scheme. A national register yes, but this would have to be out of the hands of the mandarins in their ivory towers.

I envisage the various schemes all folding due to political in fighting and the rush to make money from the current crop of unskilled, ill-prepared trades men.

The government has its share of the blame with the introduction of ill thought out regulations which have been corrupted in to money making schemes. Training has gone to the dogs with training providers putting profit first with the blessing of the government.

My once proud trade has gone from a highly respected position in society to be on a par with a back street mechanic.

As for Mr. J Public, he’s never heard of you and basically couldn’t care less. The Electrical Safety Council, which should be a force to be reckoned with, is instead like a voice in the wilderness that no one is listening to.

 

[malcolmsanford]

I’ve no use for schemes being retired, nor did I during my 40years working in the industrial field. So looking from the outside I really can’t see any advantages to any scheme. A national register yes, but this would have to be out of the hands of the mandarins in their ivory towers.

I envisage the various schemes all folding due to political in fighting and the rush to make money from the current crop of unskilled, ill-prepared trades men.

The government has its share of the blame with the introduction of ill thought out regulations which have been corrupted in to money making schemes. Training has gone to the dogs with training providers putting profit first with the blessing of the government.

My once proud trade has gone from a highly respected position in society to be on a par with a back street mechanic.

As for Mr. J Public, he’s never heard of you and basically couldn’t care less. The Electrical Safety Council, which should be a force to be reckoned with, is instead like a voice in the wilderness that no one is listening to.

Tony have you any of those pills going spare, because I do not think anyone here could have penned this better or more succinctly.

I proffered in another thread, that though they are far from perfect the JIB are perhaps the nearest and best suited to carry the mantle for an Electricians Register.

They cover all areas and at least have standards, that are not swayed by the colour your money.

My once proud trade has gone from a highly respected position in society to be on a par with a back street mechanic.

That my friend says it all, a trade destroyed by narrow minded governments who over the years thought that trades were a thing of the past, things like manufacturing, coal, steel, ship building was a dirty word, and that the future was a service driven industry where we would all sell insurance, banking services and work in call centres, if there are any left.

Now it is coming back to haunt them, with a population of 60 odd million and not an handful of tradesmen, in any discipline, you can shake a stick at. Just some poorly trained lads, who through no fault of their own, have been lied to and conned into thinking they are getting trained

 

[RJT_94]

So basicly anyone with Napit and Storma are stuffed, if this takes off and the public see it as like the gas register. Anyone not in will start lossing work as they are not on this register. Yet again fully competent hard working sparks are going to be bent further over the table! why there cant just be a level playing feild and all schemes are in it bafles me.

Hello NICECI ENGINEER, What is going to be done to get other schemes on board and shouldnt it have been done proir to the register being open. Surely it entered someones head that its not going to work and cause confusion with customers without all schemes in!

 

[kingeri]

The register must be open to members of all schemes, otherwise it just sucks big time. I'm actually quite annoyed by this, so much so that I can't formulate an intelligent post at the moment.

 

[Spoon]

The register must be open to members of all schemes, otherwise it just sucks big time. I'm actually quite annoyed by this, so much so that I can't formulate an intelligent post at the moment.

Discrimination springs to mind....

 

[RJT_94]

Just awaiting a response to my email to Napit, if I get oneback that is.

 

[BlueToBits]

So basicly anyone with Napit and Storma are stuffed, if this takes off and the public see it as like the gas register. Anyone not in will start lossing work as they are not on this register. Yet again fully competent hard working sparks are going to be bent further over the table! why there cant just be a level playing feild and all schemes are in it bafles me.

Hello NICECI ENGINEER, What is going to be done to get other schemes on board and shouldnt it have been done proir to the register being open. Surely it entered someones head that its not going to work and cause confusion with customers without all schemes in!

He answered this here.

...Other schemeoperators
As mentioned previously the new Joint Venture is theculmination of two years hard work to bring some unity to the market. The ESChas tried in recent years to bring all schemes together under one register butsome operators did not want to co operate.
...

You can read what you like into the word "cooperate" but I know what I think.
The main thing here is 'IF it takes off..'. Previous track records of publicising electrical scheme operators have fallen very short of making any electrical scheme a household name. So NAPIT and STORMA (whoever they are) are not necessarily stuffed. This partnership is obviously formed to encourage NAPIT and STORMA members into joinig NICEIC or ELECSA. It may not be such a bad thing to do. The joining and assessment criteria and fees must be much the same. Go with the one you think overall offers the best benefits to you. Loyalty to one scheme or another is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[RJT_94]

Thanks BluetoBits i agree very much with what you say about it not being such a bad thing and any steps towards having 1 body, name, logo what ever a customer can look for with an electrician much like gas safe is a good thing. I just hope a way can befound for it to be fully reputable and not half way their, if it is going to be run on the basis of being with a scheme then all schemes will need to be involved. for this to work properly and not cause confusion.

 

[Guest111]

Complete and utter waste of time,with perhaps the potential for a nice earner for the parties who set it up.What is needed is a national register similar to the one used by doctors,the membership of which is mandatory to work and can be viewed by the public.The BMA listing gives you the doctors name,when they qualified,when they registered,what extra training they have received and if they have chosen to specialise in any particular field.Finally and most importantly it contains details of any complaints made against the doctor and what the outcome was.Also if there is a serious problem the doctor can be removed from the list and is not allowed to practice until they have been retrained on the problem areas or in severe cases not reinstated to the list at all.That is not too hard a system to implement and would protect the people who the organisers of these schemes claim to want to protect,namely joe public.
One register for one trade,not devisive, would have powers to weed out cowboys and would be simple for the public.end of

 

[Octopus]

OK. Why didn't Napit and Stroma sign up too?

Napit have their own scheme and then theres the Competent person website too.

All this is likely to do is confuse Joe Public.

3rd time lucky.

If the NICEIC man can't answer this will Dan and the Mods be forced to add a new catagory to the membership type, namely POLITICIAN. i.e. someone who never answers direct questions.

 

[MDJ]

The Trouble is to make a real electric safe register Like gas safe, B&Q, Screwfix, Tesco, Sainsbury's and Homebase etc will have to stop all non electricians buying stock at their stores, they all sell something which could be installed by non competent persons, I can just imagine the government allowing the freeze on sale of all electrical goods at the time of recession where businesses can't make so much money and pay tax haha, it will never happen, changing the subject slightly, the trouble is the amount of bull we keep getting regarding part pee and the now safe scheme, because all the scammers have their own system and it is un-united the farce will continue, I don't know what the answer will be long term, but as long as they allow anyone in the street to gain a part p certification for a fortnights course then we are doomed, rather than worry about the scammers joining forces to create "so called safe schemes" we need to worry about part p 2 week courses, I know there are several guys on here who have done the 5 week courses and do their best to do a professional Job, I respect them for coming on here and getting involved and trying to improve, the answer IMO is to have MOTs for sparks like some of the scammers have now where they inspect annually, they should insist part p registered guys are tested very closely, regardless of experience every 12 months by showing 5 completed jobs picked at random and at the time of inspection, a inspection of their testing ability has to be proved by testing their Jobs in front of the engineer, also remove the city councils part p inspectors who have done short courses and ensure a minimum 10 years experience in the trade is proven before an examiner can be employed, if the examiners are experienced they will ensure the quality improves, I had some fool from my city council who wasn't a spark telling me he was a part p inspector and wanted a part p certificate for a light in a loft conversion, although I have been in the trade 30 years and he was stacking shelves in Tesco 2 weeks before due to the course he was inspecting my work, now the short courses and inspectors need to be looked at more closely and we may have a chance to get to the one off elec register, but all said and done, I just can never imagine it being illegal to change a socket or light switch in a house by an ordinary Joe.

 

[Guest111]

MDJ if you go into any diy store you can buy gas fittings,I think the issue here is one national register for electricians so that there is less confusion and everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet.I agree with what you say about people fitting there own sockets etc,however the same applies to gas.There are always people,who regardless of their level of competency will tackle a job,Gas fittings are not a restricted sale item despite gas safe,a call into any plumbers merchant will enable anyone to buy a gas fitting providing they know what they are asking for.I think we all need to be carefull we dont lose our way on this one,its a bit like the drug laws isnt it?we all know its illegal to snort cocaine but loads of people still do it!What is needed is one register with everyone on it and powers to deal with cowboys,after all if you were registered with say elecsa and got thrown off for dodgy work,whats to stop you signing up with another scheme provider that isn,t affiliated to the one you were thrown off?See my point one register and if you get thrown off its game over,bye bye cowboy.

 

[NICEIC ENGINEER]

In response to Murdoch an answer is posted earlier in the thread.

The ESC has tried in the not too distant past to create one register for the promotion of contractors from many schemes, but some schemes did not want to participate. www.electricalsafetyregister.com was therefore developed for NICEIC, ELECSA and ECA registrants.

The ECA and ESC havebeen working for nearly two years to form a meaningful partnership and jointgovernance over NICEIC and ELECSA. The register is just the first benefit forthose ELECSA and NICEIC contractors, as well as ECA members.

 

[MDJ]

I would love to see one register, but it just cannot happen, gas fittings cost a few pence for a coupler or a couple of quid for a length of pipe the diy stores can charge 50-200 for a light fitting and so many people change their own lights the money raised is warming the chancellors hands IMO, I just can't ever see government allowing one register for skilled persons, they don't think electricity is dangerous, after all it is only 3 wires.

 

[MDJ]

One question everyone then, why haven't the government created one register as we would all like to see?

 

[Spoon]

One question everyone then, why haven't the government created one register as we would all like to see?

Because that would be sensible and the scheme main people will be up in arms as they will lose out on lots of money.
Does that sound too negative

 

[MDJ]

Because that would be sensible and the scheme main people will be up in arms as they will lose out on lots of money.
Does that sound too negative

No Not at all, that makes sence, money is the issue I'm sure.