EICR Code for working RCD with non-functioning test button

[Vortigern]

much investigation as it reasonable to do.

The OP has not made clear at what stage he is at in the EICR. If he was talking about while doing the EICR, in my view this should have been noted and a code attached. As he asked what code I assume he is in the process, in which case he should not have investigated but just put a code and brought it to the attention of the person ordering the work. After that if the person asked he should have investigated the fault observed. I think as Lucien has elucidated exhaustively the possible mechanism that may cause the trip to operate with the test button it is not within the scope of an electrician to investigate the cause due to this being a step too far for our pay grade. I suppose sending it back to the manufacturer might throw light on it? Or we just take the pragmatic approach of replacing it. It might be that a type A is needed due to hysteresis in the case of the test button not producing enough fault current for all I know, would not be too sure of how to test for that though. I could assay that if there were a number of computers/electronic equipment it could well be the case but that is merely an educated guess.

 

[telectrix]

just wondering if the tests were carried out with all loads removed from RCD. (apologies if this has been said before, but i've not read all posts ).

 

[davesparks]

I would say F.I. and move on. I know a couple of others have suggested this and I agree it seems logical?

What needs investigating? The test button doesn't work, not much to investigate is there?

 

[Vortigern]

What needs investigating?

See post no. 51 and earlier

 

[Dartlec]

The OP has not made clear at what stage he is at in the EICR. If he was talking about while doing the EICR, in my view this should have been noted and a code attached. As he asked what code I assume he is in the process, in which case he should not have investigated but just put a code and brought it to the attention of the person ordering the work. After that if the person asked he should have investigated the fault observed. I think as Lucien has elucidated exhaustively the possible mechanism that may cause the trip to operate with the test button it is not within the scope of an electrician to investigate the cause due to this being a step too far for our pay grade. I suppose sending it back to the manufacturer might throw light on it? Or we just take the pragmatic approach of replacing it. It might be that a type A is needed due to hysteresis in the case of the test button not producing enough fault current for all I know, would not be too sure of how to test for that though. I could assay that if there were a number of computers/electronic equipment it could well be the case but that is merely an educated guess.

The job is a local one to me, for a private landlord (1 property) that I've done some work for before, so I tend to deal with those differently than if it was a letting agency/3rd party, or an hours drive away, when I'd note the relevant code and then move on.

I did the testing and inspection on Thursday and am in the process of putting the report together. The new tenant is not due to move in till the end of the month and is actually the landlord's son, so there is some possibility they will want some work doing before or shortly after he moves in. (The master bedroom currently has 1 double socket)

My thought process was that if I could code the issue as C3 I could issue the satisfactory EICR, but either swap the RCD once the current tenant moves out (it will be empty for a few days), or if they need further work incorporate a new main CU in the job and remove the issue that way.

If the issue is C2, then I will likely hold off issuing the EICR until it's corrected, to avoid the complication of the landlord having to use the EICR and an EIC together in future to prove compliance.

It wasn't possible to completely unplug every device during testing (appropriate LIMs noted), so I may go back once it's empty with an RCD and double check, then swap it out if necessary.

I'm very glad I posted though, as there have been some very helpful and insightful comments and it's always good to know what the general thinking of other electricans is.

It's definitely possible to learn far more from the practical experience and vast knowledge of others than any electrical book - If only most internet forums worked like that

 

[Dartlec]

Just adding a note here for anyone in future who might find it useful.

According to the paperwork I dug out at the job, LAP switchgear was apparently made by Havells, who still exist. There are even some Havells MCBs still available new, and RCDs which look identical.

Looks like they have stopped manufacture though, as lewelectrical claims to have all the remaining UK stock.

I'll likely replace them with a more available brand, but might get someone out of trouble in the future...

 

[suffolkspark]

Just adding a note here for anyone in future who might find it useful.

According to the paperwork I dug out at the job, LAP switchgear was apparently made by Havells, who still exist. There are even some Havells MCBs still available new, and RCDs which look identical.

Looks like they have stopped manufacture though, as lewelectrical claims to have all the remaining UK stock.

I'll likely replace them with a more available brand, but might get someone out of trouble in the future...

Yea bloody havells pulled out of the uk just after I put 6 3 phase boards in a leisure centre ?‍? as it's clearly the same rcd both visually and by your paperwork I'd just grab one off that site

 

[stevethesparks]

Perhaps you could answer that question yourself?
In any event my view is you are not there to repair just report. In order to deal with a non working button you would have to work out why it is not working. For instance I have come across this a few times. Where the RCD did not operate under test or the test button. Puzzled I approached the RCD in question and switched it off manually. After this I found it operated under test and the test button worked. My investigation showed (to me) that due to lack of operation of test button and age/dust/contaminants the mechanism was stuck and manual operation cleared the "stickiness" If it had not worked I would have concluded it was shagged and got a new one. Investigation concluded.

If it fails the first time ie before freeing it - its failed.

 

[Vortigern]

f it fails the first time ie before freeing it - its failed.

so what do you put on your EICR?

 

[stevethesparks]

so what do you put on your EICR?

It would be a C2