EICR on a Sunday

[Lewis85]

Working Sunday's suck! Let alone doing condition report for someone that thinks your waiting to find faults and rip them off! People out of the trade just don't get it do they! You point out things that are unsafe/dangerous and they look at you like it should be rectified in the price?? I'm beginning to think they ain't worth the hassle. Done a full test on the property took off around 90% of fronts and then crawled around in a ****ty loft! Didn't even get a cup of tea!!

Does anyone avoid these?? This year I'm hoping to get some work with the local estate agent (they seem keen) but after this ball ache I think I'm going to regret it as this is something they will want doing a lot.

 

[davesparks]

Working Sunday's is great, it's at least double the money
Yes EICRs are boring as hell and a pita
I only do them for regular customers as its part of the Maintainence works

 

[Andy78]

The way to prove you are not out to rip them off by finding fault is to bill them for the report and decline to quote for the remedial work.
The chances of getting in with an estate agent/letting agent that will pay the proper price for a report and be interested in ordering the required remedial work for a similarly good price is slim at best, but you may have a good one, who knows.

 

[BES]

Done them for about six months when i first went on my own but soon knocked it on the head. To many cowboys knocking them out 4 a day for half what i was charging and customers arguing that when you give them an unsatisfactory saying why when its been ok for the last so many years.

 

[Lewis85]

I do a lot of work for the family that rent this property out so thought I'd do it for them but geez it's a pain, I left with a list of remedial work to be done but your looked at like your lying because they don't understand oh and mainly because there family member done work there and he knows electrics (works in there restaurant) not a spark at all.

 

[davesparks]

When you have presented a report with regulations referenced by number for each observation then they can't really argue. They are perfectly within their rights to ignore the report of they wish

 

[Lewis85]

4 a day haha madness! Visual only unk:

 

[BES]

4 a day haha madness! Visual only [emoji14]unk:

The only visual is a look from van window as they right out the report

 

[Harni]

When you have presented a report with regulations referenced by number for each observation then they can't really argue. They are perfectly within their rights to ignore the report of they wish

They still try.
Not EICRs but when ive done reports on fire alarms backed up by regs etc, you still get them typical stingy customers who say no, you're wrong. I read this on the internet and its not the same as what you're saying...

 

[davesparks]

They still try.
Not EICRs but when ive done reports on fire alarms backed up by regs etc, you still get them typical stingy customers who say no, you're wrong. I read this on the internet and its not the same as what you're saying...

I had one of them arguments yesterday when someone accused my mate the plumber of fitting the wrong size flex to an immersion heater.
I had to go round there with my regs book to prove to them that the 1.5mm butyl he fitted is correct, they were insistent that 2.5 is needed for a 3kw load!

 

[Lewis85]

Customers always right....... Because there friends friends gardeners postman who's also an electrician told them so! Happy days

 

[Harni]

A little knowledge is dangerous and when people have to reluctantly pay out for services, they would rather believe the little knowledge they heard from Dave down the pub rather than the correct knowledge from a trained professional who's spent years at college and in an apprenticeship which has probably cost them thousands to do!

 

[Lewis85]

Couldn't agree more Harni

 

[davesparks]

The job I mentioned above the bloke is some kind of air-con installer and apparently they always use 2.5mm for 3kw loads!

 

[joehat]

Never had a problem to be honest I just say it in laymen's terms and explain things to make them see that I care about their safety and give them all their options and I always say I will only give them costs if asked, 9/10 they ask their and then and 7-8/10 they get it booked in their and then .

 

[joehat]

The job I mentioned above the bloke is some kind of air-con installer and apparently they always use 2.5mm for 3kw loads!

Just cos it's standard. And people get stuck in their ways and think it's the only option without looking into the ratings of the cable sizes.

 

[joehat]

A little knowledge is dangerous and when people have to reluctantly pay out for services, they would rather believe the little knowledge they heard from Dave down the pub rather than the correct knowledge from a trained professional who's spent years at college and in an apprenticeship which has probably cost them thousands to do!

And customers always say WHY are you locking that mcb " awnser to that is people like to get abit curious and I'm not keen on shocks.
Generally the more the customer knows or I'd familiar with electrics the more I tent to be on my guard.

 

[davesparks]

And customers always say WHY are you locking that mcb " awnser to that is people like to get abit curious and I'm not keen on shocks.
Generally the more the customer knows or I'd familiar with electrics the more I tent to be on my guard.

I rarely use this phrase, but this is one of the questions I will answer with 'it's the law'

 

[charliefarli]

4 a day haha madness! Visual only unk:

I used to work for a firm that wanted you testing 10 council houses a day.absolute joke

 

[telectrix]

I used to work for a firm that wanted you testing 10 council houses a day.absolute joke

that's easy. drive by. it's still standing; it's not on fire.... next.

 

[vxwestie]

Is there a requirement to remove 90% of fittings on an EICR or go into a loft space?

Ive never earnt an extra penny for working on a Sunday either... Lol

 

[sparksburnout]

The job I mentioned above the bloke is some kind of air-con installer and apparently they always use 2.5mm for 3kw loads!

Pedantic as ever Dave eh? I think you will find 2.5 is extremely common for immersion flexes, FFS how much more does it cost to install a cable that is well over capacity for the load rather than one which is only just over. If I came across a plumber who stuck a bit of 1.5 in I would ask why as well.

 

[davesparks]

Pedantic as ever Dave eh? I think you will find 2.5 is extremely common for immersion flexes, FFS how much more does it cost to install a cable that is well over capacity for the load rather than one which is only just over. If I came across a plumber who stuck a bit of 1.5 in I would ask why as well.

Cost is irrelevant. If 2.5mm is squeezed into a terminal designed for a max of 1.5mm then there is a problem.
Do you also install all final circuits in bigger cable for the sake of putting an over capacity cable in?

I installed a ring final in 1.5mm at the weekend as that is what my calculations said would be right, would you have done it in 2.5 and wasted the extra couple of hundred pounds?

 

[sparksburnout]

Cost is irrelevant. If 2.5mm is squeezed into a terminal designed for a max of 1.5mm then there is a problem.
Do you also install all final circuits in bigger cable for the sake of putting an over capacity cable in?

I installed a ring final in 1.5mm at the weekend as that is what my calculations said would be right, would you have done it in 2.5 and wasted the extra couple of hundred pounds?

How many immersion heater heads are designed for 1.5mm? why would you install an RFC in 1.5 was it for a specific application or for general use, RFC's are usually installed in 2.5 as far as I am aware I cant really understand the point you are tying to make??

 

[sparkstu]

Pedantic as ever Dave eh? I think you will find 2.5 is extremely common for immersion flexes, FFS how much more does it cost to install a cable that is well over capacity for the load rather than one which is only just over. If I came across a plumber who stuck a bit of 1.5 in I would ask why as well.

Why would you ask why to a bit of 1.5 butyal? I never find 2.5 it's always been 1.5 and that's all I've ever done for standard immersion heaters why use anything else

 

[sparksburnout]

Why would you ask why to a bit of 1.5 butyal? I never find 2.5 it's always been 1.5 and that's all I've ever done for standard immersion heaters why use anything else

So that you don't find them suffering from overheating and general degrading over time, given the arduous environments they are often in. If you are running them off an FCU then that's a bad idea anyway as the fuse is at its limit and contributing to the overheating. How much more does a bit of 2.5 cost?

 

[sparkstu]

2.5 butyal rated at a higher temp then 1.5? Don't think so! As Dave has already said cost is irrelavant

 

[sparksburnout]

2.5 butyal rated at a higher temp then 1.5? Don't think so! As Dave has already said cost is irrelavant

Who said anything about the temperature rating?? 1.5 is rated at 16A, which, given the conditions it is being used in, is running it close. Have you not come across such cables in a bad state after prolonged use? And what's butyal anyway, it is like butyl?

 

[davesparks]

How many immersion heater heads are designed for 1.5mm? why would you install an RFC in 1.5 was it for a specific application or for general use, RFC's are usually installed in 2.5 as far as I am aware I cant really understand the point you are tying to make??

As far as I know the standard single phase 3kW immersion is designed for 1.5mm fix, and the cable grip certainly ain't big enough for any bigger flex.
I installed in 1.5mm because it was the right size for the job and I don't suffer from the urge to oversize the cables unnecessarily.
RFCs are subject to a minimum cable size of 2.5 for plastic insulated cables and 1.5 for mineral insulated cables though it is usual to install in 4mm single commercially to meet grouping requirements.

 

[davesparks]

Who said anything about the temperature rating?? 1.5 is rated at 16A, which, given the conditions it is being used in, is running it close. Have you not come across such cables in a bad state after prolonged use? And what's butyal anyway, it is like butyl?

You mentioned general overheating and degradation which in my experience is almost always down to the temperature affecting the insulation inside the terminal chamber of the immersion heater. I have never seen a 1.5mm butyl feeding an immersion heater suffer from overheating through overload.
localised heating at the terminations does not necessarily indicate overload or 'running it close', heating through overload is normally visible as a deformation of the insulation and sheath along the length of the cable or localised at bends or other stress points along the run of the cable.

A 3kW 240V immersion heater (2.7kW at 230V) which is the standard these days will draw 12.5A. this is just under 80% of the rated operating current of the cable (16A) I don't see how you can consider that to be running it close? It is only 4/5 of the rated current of the cable!

 

[Wonderwall]

I simply tell the customer they are paying for a report, as I find it. I leave it fully confident that they can get another sparky in if they wish to verify any faults I have highlighted.

 

[Andy78]

I fitted 3 lengths of 2.5mm butyl flex to immersion heaters yesterday. I'll let myself off over sizing the cable though as they were 4kW elements. Now that would have been pushing 1.5mm flex to its limit, but a 3kW element certainly wouldn't.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I don't see how you can consider that to be running it close? It is only 4/5 of the rated current of the cable

Indeed. For anyone worried about using a cable near rating, remember that the heat dissipated is proportional to the square of the current, in this case 16/25 or about 64% of the permitted temperature rise.

I can see the point in standardising on 2.5 for 3kW aircon loads though as the voltage drop during compressor starting is critical and might often be a more onerous requirement than CCC.

 

[Skimpy Wan]

Indeed. For anyone worried about using a cable near rating, remember that the heat dissipated is proportional to the square of the current, in this case 16/25 or about 64% of the permitted temperature rise.

Please can you explain this one to me as I've not heard / been taught this calculation / consideration .... sorry if I'm being dumb!

p.s.Can we not just say heat resistant flex rather than butyl ... its so much easier to spell!!:tounge_smile:

 

[Andy78]

Please can you explain this one to me as I've not heard / been taught this calculation / consideration .... sorry if I'm being dumb!

p.s.Can we not just say heat resistant flex rather than butyl ... its so much easier to spell!!:tounge_smile:

Butyl has enhanced heat resistance over standard duty flex, but not all heat resistant flex is butyl. Butyl is rubber HR flex but you can get PVC HR flex too.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Please can you explain this one to me

P=I²R

This P being the one dissipated in the cable, not the load.

 

[Skimpy Wan]

Cheers.

I now need to learn to spell butyl correctly then! Lol! Only every used "heat resistant flex" from wholesalers. I'll have a look into when butyl would be prudent in comparison to heat res. flex.

I didn't notice the link between P = I2 x R, so thanks for clarifying for me