Electrical sigh off

[Octopus]

Well returning to the OP, I have been in contact with the builder today and he has said that the electrical work will be part p certificated on completion - presumably by this guys mate who is a spark.

However I have to admit that I am still a little unclear as to whether I need a MWEIC or EIC?
For all I know this guys mate might be 'dodgy' As I stated previously I need to ensure that safety is paramount and everything is done properly.

Are there any particular questions I should be asking the builder / his spark?

Thanks
Simon

Part P is "self certification" so if the builder wheels in a sparky at the very end you've not seen before then the alarm bells should ring.

New circuits = EIC

Modification to circuits = Minor Works Certificate

Get the scheme name and number of the sparky and don't pay for the electrics till you have the certificate(s)

 

[sgrech]

Part P is "self certification" so if the builder wheels in a sparky at the very end you've not seen before then the alarm bells should ring.

New circuits = EIC

Modification to circuits = Minor Works Certificate

Get the scheme name and number of the sparky and don't pay for the electrics till you have the certificate(s)

That's exactly what the builder is planning to do!

What is the purpose of having the scheme name and number if he has provided me with the certificate (assuming this happens).

Does anyone think that I should get a second opinion though evening if the guy provides the required cert as safety is of paramount importance.

Simon

 

[oldtimer]

I think if you work on say 3 of the 6 circuits in a property then if it has not been tested in the last 5 years the remaining circuits should get tested. ie you sign off your work but the kitchen ring may not have an earth scenario

 

[onions1066]

I would use eic and note the limitations. I would not fill more than 3 minor works at one time is just a waste of time and energy. I'm not saying test every circuit on the board only the ones I have worked on. And it would need to be an exceptional reason for me not to be able to access all points on a circuit I have worked regardless of what cert I am filling out.

 

[Octopus]

That's exactly what the builder is planning to do!

What is the purpose of having the scheme name and number if he has provided me with the certificate (assuming this happens).

Does anyone think that I should get a second opinion though evening if the guy provides the required cert as safety is of paramount importance.

Simon

Because anyone can buy certificates. You need the scheme and number to check him/her out.

Google competentperson

 

[Andy78]

That's exactly what the builder is planning to do!

What is the purpose of having the scheme name and number if he has provided me with the certificate (assuming this happens).
To make sure he is actually with a scheme at all. I know you have been promised part P notification, but once you have paid up..... ? And also you can contact his scheme and ask if they think the way things are being carried out on your job is suitable to them.

Does anyone think that I should get a second opinion though evening if the guy provides the required cert as safety is of paramount importance.

Simon

......

 

[sgrech]

Because anyone can buy certificates. You need the scheme and number to check him/her out.

Google competentperson

Ok gotcha. However just looked at the competent person register and there is no mention of scheme name and number, it just asks you to enter the business name?

Simon

 

[oldtimer]

Because anyone can buy certificates. You need the scheme and number to check him/her out.

Google competentperson

Murdoch hate to shoot you down here but up here you can submit certification "By Enquiry" and you must add a front and back copy of your SJIB grade card showing your qualifications and grade plus a copy of any tester calibration certificate.

I spoke to a guy in planning where there was an issue concerning an extension that was built where the kitchen fitters submitted certification with a scheme number on it fine but something did not add up and then it all kicked off when tester calibration certificates and grade cards were asked for turned out the figures were made up and they are still waiting for the cal certs and grade card.

This is where the scheme system breaks down because anybody can hide behind a number and the guy in planning said that at least "By Enquiry" is a full audit system but they are under pressure to push for scheme registration so for me as I dont do kitchens and rewires I advise customers to insist on cal certs and grade cards as well as certification and no surprises that there seems to be problems with some companies as one had to back out quoting for a kitchen as they could not comply with the customers conditions that had the kicker of no proof of quals or cals and you pay to sort out

 

[telectrix]

the problem is that any spark coming in to certify the work will not be able to ensure that hidden cables are correctly installed. by completing an installation cert. the guy is taking responsibility for the work of others. the best way forward is for him to use a 3 signature certificate, whereby the original installer signs for design and installation, and your registered scam member sparks signs for inspection & test.

 

[sgrech]

the problem is that any spark coming in to certify the work will not be able to ensure that hidden cables are correctly installed. by completing an installation cert. the guy is taking responsibility for the work of others. the best way forward is for him to use a 3 signature certificate, whereby the original installer signs for design and installation, and your registered scam member sparks signs for inspection & test.

Is that allowable then? If this is indeed the process that they are going to use, the question remains should I get a second opinion i.e. pay for a PIR to be done?

 

[telectrix]

IMO, i'd get the builder and his spark to complete the work on the understanding that you'll pay them subject to a satisfactory independent EICR. this EICR will also give you the condition of the rest of the installation, and, should be acceptable to building control.

 

[oldtimer]

Or you could say what a Bl00dy mess we are in with this Part P nonsense

 

[sgrech]

Is that allowable then? If this is indeed the process that they are going to use, the question remains should I get a second opinion i.e. pay for a PIR to be done?

Anyone?

 

[Octopus]

Or you could say what a Bl00dy mess we are in with this Part P nonsense

Hum, I don't agree with you on this one.

If there was no Part P the OP wouldn't even know to ask about certifcates at all and builder bob wouldn't let an electrician near his work.

 

[oldtimer]

Hum, I don't agree with you on this one.

If there was no Part P the OP wouldn't even know to ask about certifcates at all and builder bob wouldn't let an electrician near his work.

Yep I understand that but so why is it being ignored yep in theory its good in practice its not getting policed and when that happens people do what they want yet guys are paying into the schemes and asking why am I doing this

 

[Octopus]

Yep I understand that but so why is it being ignored yep in theory its good in practice its not getting policed and when that happens people do what they want yet guys are paying into the schemes and asking why am I doing this

And this IS the biggest issue, that said if there were no part p there wouldn't be any policing of BS7671 at all so its a no win situation.

 

[telectrix]

which is why part p should be scrapped. all sparks should prove qualifications and competence to sign on a national register. then not on register, no work as a spark.

 

[Silly Sausage]

which is why part p should be scrapped. all sparks should prove qualifications and competence to sign on a national register. then not on register, no work as a spark.

Hmmm...in your dreams!
It's just had its 1st revision after about 7 years in service, can't envisage much changing in the foreseeable future.

I've realised I should have paid Manc Council £100s notification fees when I rewired my house...Oh well, too late now.

 

[telectrix]

naughty boy. but at least it's not burnt down due to being done by an under qualified DI, ex=kitchen fitter/plumber/call centre operator.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Hahahaha...there's a bit of truth there, the rewire was after I nearly burnt the place down!!!