Extract fan recomendation

[littlespark]

Got a job coming soon that’s going to be a nightmare, but in the meantime there’s a few odd jobs to do. One of them is to replace a timed fan in a bathroom.

The way the apartment is constructed, there’s no window in the bathroom, and the existing 230v fan is located above the bath, through a wall and then ducted 3m to outside through another room.

like for like replacement, but no way I am fitting a 230v in that location... so, I’m looking for a fairly strong 12v fan with timer, with enough oomph to pull the air the full 3m distance.
Another apartment above so ceiling mount isn’t an option.
Placement of transformer is also a problem.

Solutions?
(inline fan in the pipe box? Just thought of that)

This same property has another bathroom on a lower floor, has window, but no extractor and it’s fully tiled. Options for extract fan here?
2ft thick outside walls, and he doesn’t want tiles broken. Tiles are also in a brickwork pattern so I can’t even take out one square tile and core through from there.
First thought is the window is recessed into the wall at an angle, and that part of the wall isn’t tiled. Core through on the angle, same from outside and meet in the middle, at a rather obtuse angle?
Flexiduct through the hole.
Customer is waiting for planning consent as the building is listed for this new hole and the refurb to come.

 

[pirate]

Just "off the wall" so to speak, is there any possibility of running the ducting under the floor. I had to do this in a house I had, but I had a hollow wall to drop the ducting down to the underfloor area, and I had to fit a hefty centrifugal fan to pump the air 4m to the outside wall. It worked well, though.

 

[littlespark]

Ill have to check what the adjacent room is being used for.... If its a bedroom, they wont want a fan noise disturbing anyone sleeping.

I also have to check whats below. The apartment is built into an old country house, and this is the upper of the two lowest floors... but i dont know if below is still within the property or into a store room for all the apartments.

At the moment there's no fresh air intake ducting to outside either, unless there's a vent to the hallway i didnt notice

 

[suffolkspark]

I'd go for an inline fan in the boxing, 12v fans never have the same oooomph. I fit the envirovent SIL100T wall fans, their 12v counterpart is Sh!T and I dont know why... so yea , I vote inline

 

[buzzlightyear]

this my recommendation ,oops just readied it extractor fan .lol.

 

[AJshep]

Greenwood Airvac cv2gip rated IPx5 when mounted on the wall, also its a continuous extract fan so it would constantly ventilate the room.
These are all we fit now.
They did do a 12v version of this, not sure if its still available.

 

[loz2754]

like for like replacement, but no way I am fitting a 230v in that location... so, I’m looking for a fairly strong 12v fan with timer, with enough oomph to pull the air the full 3m distance.

An IPX4 230 volt fan is permitted in zone 1, as long as it is protected by RCD.
IPX5 if it's likely to sprayed with water.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Flexiduct in not only noisy, but promotes the fall out of water from condensation, with it a condensate trap is almost essential, why do you have to core from both sides? coring from just one side will allow a smooth circular duct to be used, slightly inclined to allow condensation to fall to the outside, external air movement tends to take the condensation away and prevents staining of the outside of the building.

 

[littlespark]

Flexiduct in not only noisy, but promotes the fall out of water from condensation, with it a condensate trap is almost essential, why do you have to core from both sides? coring from just one side will allow a smooth circular duct to be used, slightly inclined to allow condensation to fall to the outside, external air movement tends to take the condensation away and prevents staining of the outside of the building.

Because the customer doesn’t want any tiles damaged. As described in OP, the tiles are 4”x2” laid in a brickwork pattern....
Coring straight through would be easier, I know.
There’s also getting cable access down from the ceiling to think about. (Surface mini trunking? No thanks)
Fans shouldn’t be too close to windows anyway, but needs must.

I’m on site there tomorrow, so I’ll do some photos and investigation.

I’m now thinking, if the joists are running the right way, I could ceiling mount and run below the floorboards above. I’m fitting downlights into this bathroom too, so boards will be up.

 

[telectrix]

why not 230V as long as it's IP4X? far better selection available.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I would be confident enough in my diamond core to drill into the tiles at the centre of the proposed hole and core straight through, I have a dedicated Macrist vibration drill not an impact drill.

 

[loz2754]

I would be confident enough in my diamond core to drill into the tiles at the centre of the proposed hole and core straight through, I have a dedicated Macrist vibration drill not an impact drill.

Marcrist is the dogs danglies.

 

[streamer]

This job sounds familiar to me, is that possible? If I'm right then I'm glad you're doing it and not me!?

 

[littlespark]

This job sounds familiar to me, is that possible? If I'm right then I'm glad you're doing it and not me!?

I wondered if you would recognise it....

Did you ever look at the job?

 

[streamer]

I wondered if you would recognise it....

Did you ever look at the job?

I didn't, I moved away before I could. I've just seen the house from the outside. It's a big impressive building but I could imagine it being awkward - especially as its split up into apartments.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Marcrist is the dogs danglies.

Certainly is, I have cored through granite and all other types of stone up to 700mm thick without problems good investment, just in case others do not know it's a dry coring system, no need for any water.

 

[littlespark]

I didn't, I moved away before I could. I've just seen the house from the outside. It's a big impressive building but I could imagine it being awkward - especially as its split up into apartments.

Big ol house in the middle of a new build estate.

 

[littlespark]

My memory ain’t what it used to be.

site visit today, and the upstairs bath is actually just a shower. And the ceiling is so high I think I can get away with a 230v

The lower floor bathroom still may be a problem.

The room above this is a kitchen with laminated flooring. I’ll have to get that lifted to see which way the boards are running, and in turn which way the joists are. I’m hoping towards the window there so I can put in a ceiling fan and duct to outside.

There is a room with the carpet up, and the joists are running the way I want, but no guarantee being the same in an old building.
Turned over the hall carpet, and those boards are running diagonally... so no help there.

Customer also wants an electric point for a towel rail on the wall to the left of the photo. Drilling through a 3ft wall into a bedroom, then either chase right up to ceiling, or surface trunking on top of skirting to nearest socket.

 

[telectrix]

My memory ain’t what it used to be.

site visit today, and the upstairs bath is actually just a shower. And the ceiling is so high I think I can get away with a 230v

View attachment 64801

The lower floor bathroom still may be a problem.

View attachment 64802

The room above this is a kitchen with laminated flooring. I’ll have to get that lifted to see which way the boards are running, and in turn which way the joists are. I’m hoping towards the window there so I can put in a ceiling fan and duct to outside.

There is a room with the carpet up, and the joists are running the way I want, but no guarantee being the same in an old building.
Turned over the hall carpet, and those boards are running diagonally... so no help there.

Customer also wants an electric point for a towel rail on the wall to the left of the photo. Drilling through a 3ft wall into a bedroom, then either chase right up to ceiling, or surface trunking on top of skirting to nearest socket.

core it out, man. and don't be put off .a 230V fan in zone 1 is compliant as long as it' IP4x.

 

[nicebutdim]

The room above this is a kitchen with laminated flooring. I’ll have to get that lifted to see which way the boards are running, and in turn which way the joists are. I’m hoping towards the window there so I can put in a ceiling fan and duct to outside.

Strong magnet on that ceiling might help find joist direction?

 

[streamer]

The other thing to remember if you want to run a duct in between the ceiling and floor above is that in a building like that there will probably be deafening or deadening or what ever folks like to call it. Ie. another layer of boards with rubble and plaster on top. Awful stuff!

 

[123]

@littlespark Why does the fan need to be 12v? There are plenty of suitable 230v fans for the job.

What do you install when someone wants an electric shower, cause they are 230v as well?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Joists in an old building probably have herringbone strutting between the joist.

 

[littlespark]

@littlespark Why does the fan need to be 12v? There are plenty of suitable 230v fans for the job.

What do you install when someone wants an electric shower, cause they are 230v as well?

Why do they manufacture 12v fans?

I had in my head, bathtub with a fan within touching distance, never mind in a specific zone... and as tel rightly mentions... fan with the correct IP rating.
Moot point now as it’s way higher than I thought.

Joists in an old building probably have herringbone strutting between the joist.

I’ll find out after I get the boards up.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Why do they manufacture 12v fans?

Why do they make electric cars, answers on a postcard please.

 

[littlespark]

Back at this house today actually doing some work.

Customer had opened up a hatch on his stairwell and come across all this..... redundant (I hope!)

 

[littlespark]

Yeh, it’s redundant. And there’s no copper in the busbar chamber either.... been robbed already.

when were phases L1, L2 and L3 ever marked as ph A, ph B and ph C? That’s what all the labels say on this.

 

[Mikegh]

What components do you need for the rigid ducting on a 4" cooker hood usually ?

Is that the best type of grille

What do you need to attach the rigid pipe to the fan and the grille ?

On the core drills , do you remove the pilot bit during drilling ?

Cheers

 

[Mike Johnson]

After starting the hole, take the pilot drill out and use the hole drilled to guide the core, but make sure you keep it straight so not to introduce a bend in the hole, also always use the side handle on the drill to ensure it does not break your wrist if it gets stuck due to bad alignment, rigid pipe and grill/fan should match size, I use the stainless steel outside grills from TLC: 6 Inch Stainless Steel Round Cowl c/w Internal Louvre & Mesh | Aidelle_Airflow (52644601) - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ADRC6SS.html, the last fan I installed was one of the Icon range that opens and close's automatically, no need for a back draft grill: Airflow Aidelle Icon Extractor Fans - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Ventilation_Index/Aidelle_Icon_Fans/index.html. Sorry went off track a bit with extract fans instead of cooker hood extract, but still useful information I think.

Found the 4" : 4 Inch (100mm) Stainless Steel Round Cowl c/w Internal Louvre & Mesh | Aidelle_Airflow (52644501) - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ADRC4SS.html

 

[Mikegh]

Ok thanks for all that

So basically once the diamond bit bites you remove the pilot ? Is that it ?

Also seen something about driving pilot goes to reduce dust but didn't quite get that idea ?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Remove the pilot drill once you have about 25mm drilled into the wall to act as a guide.

Nor do I?

Six inch holes are fun.

 

[Mikegh]

I'll retype that

Also seen something about drilling pilot holes to reduce dust but didn't quite get that idea ?

 

[brianmoooore]

Joists in an old building probably have herringbone strutting between the joist.

Appropriate length of 3 X 2 and a large hammer will deal with these. Many have met their end this way by myself and my trusty 4lb lump.

 

[Mike Johnson]

That strutting is just there for decoration, and don't forget to drill holes wherever you want in the joist while your at it.

 

[brianmoooore]

Buildings like this tend to be somewhat over engineered by modern standards, and built with nice close grained timber, not the modern stuff with rings a cm apart. Removal of a strut or two isn't going to cause any movement.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Until the next person comes along and thinks exactly the same.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I'll retype that

Also seen something about drilling pilot holes to reduce dust but didn't quite get that idea ?

May be alluding to drilling all around the outside of a large diameter hole instead of diamond drilling, there is no doubt that diamond drilling does cause a lot of dust, but you do get a neat hole that requires very little finishing, even through plaster, and outside just a neat hole to put the cowl in.

 

[littlespark]

My last core was through 800mm of rubble built solid stone walls.

Once you’ve drilled through with just a long 10mm bit or whatever, start off the core using the pilot… will keep it straight following the first hole.
You’ll need a few inches cut with core before you can dispense with the pilot and let the core follow its own path.

There was a section where the rubble would drop into the new hole. I just had to clear it frequently.

Hire a drill and core if you can. Saves burning out your own machine, and keep a tight hold of the drill!

 

[Mike Johnson]

As both I and @littlespark have said keep hold of the drill using the side screw on arm, I have seen broken wrists through the core jamming and the drill not having a clutch, I had my own Marcrist set, about the best dry core bits you can get without spending mega money.

 

[Mikegh]

I'd get the core drill
I suppose the best thing with the ducting is go to the builders merchant .
I usually end up getting parts that don't fit together.

 

[Mike Johnson]

TLC sell the right size ducting for extract fans it's either 4" (100mm) or 6" (150mm) not drainage pipe from a builders merchant, or go over to France and pick up 100mm or 150mm drainage, are we are banned from France at the moment.

 

[Mikegh]

The French have finally got around to banning you

 

[Mike Johnson]

They have banned all non EU persons, not just me, I suppose that does not include you though.