Fire Brigade advice

[ipf]

Not true, the requirement for "non-combustible" CU casings came directly from LFB.

LFB...Let Fuseboards..........

 

[netblindpaul]

dont forget there are different levels of engineer and not all titles are protected

There is NO protection for the title Engineer in the UK, I wish there was, because it would distinguish those of us who are registered as Professional Engineers with formal recognition and independent assessment of our competence with and by the Engineering Council.

 

[davesparks]

Not true, the requirement for "non-combustible" CU casings came directly from LFB.

Have you got any more details on this, ideally the contact details of the person at LFB who is responsible so I can write to them and ask for the definition of 'non-combustible' which is to be used?

 

[netblindpaul]

Nowhere does it state that an engineer is classed as x, y or z qualification. Strictly speaking an engineer is anyone who builds or maintains things.

I agree with your point though.

I wish it did in the UK, just as it does in other countries around the World, that way those of us who have taken the time to get the qualifications would be adequately recognised.
As it is, a Professionally Qualified Engineer is viewed the same as a gas fitter.

 

[ipf]

There is NO protection for the title Engineer in the UK, I wish there was, because it would distinguish those of us who are registered as Professional Engineers with formal recognition and independent assessment of our competence with and by the Engineering Council.

Well said Paul, couldn't agree more. Once again it's pie in the sky, though.

 

[tazz]

I wish it did in the UK, just as it does in other countries around the World, that way those of us who have taken the time to get the qualifications would be adequately recognised.
As it is, a Professionally Qualified Engineer is viewed the same as a gas fitter.

Then in that case we have electricians and plumbers in the uk.....can I ask who is doing the design...??

 

[netblindpaul]

The IET, as the electricians are following a pre formatted design guide, AKA BS7671, which is why it is formatted the way it is with all the guidance.
As far as plumbing goes, what design, they just throw it in according to a few loose rules.
I do not know a plumber, mind, TBH, I don't know many who has any copies of any Building Reg's documents or anything of the sort, they just wing it, and get away with it.
So they cannot be Engineers.

 

[tazz]

Ok so the IET do all diciplines designs, and most are winged and made up on a project, and sparks & plumbers make it up as they go along........I cant even see them doing that in Wales, I presume you dont do much commercial work.

 

[netblindpaul]

Well I do almost no domestic, if that's a clue, one or two domestic jobs every couple of years.

 

[netblindpaul]

Ok so the IET do all diciplines designs, and most are winged and made up on a project, and sparks & plumbers make it up as they go along........I cant even see them doing that in Wales, I presume you dont do much commercial work.

BTW, I did not state the the IET did ALL disciplines designs, so please do not try to put words in my mouth.

Anyone undertaking a design, MUST be competent to do so, see CDM.

If they cannot prove their competence and have access to the relevant documents to substantiate their design such as BS7671 etc. then they are breaking the law.
End of story.

 

[Guest666]

This one has gone a little sideways. Lol!

 

[tazz]

Ok but you still have not answered the question who does the design

 

[netblindpaul]

For electrical work, the IET, the electricians follow the formulae in the big coloured book, it's not really design work, it's just join the dots.
As far as plumbers go, do they design anything?
If you asked one for design data, I suspect they would just laugh at you.
A spark would try to comply and hand you a load of stuff based on pre specified data and formulae etc, so not really a design.
How many "ordinary" sparks to you now really design stuff?
How many have any idea about the requirements of CDM if they are working on stuff under BS7671 and actually consider anything other than 7671 in their so called "designs".
How many that do machinery stuff actually have copies of the relevant standards for the work they do, and more to the point actually understand them?
Then IF they do, do they consider them in their so called "designs".
You may be an exception, in which case good for you, however, 90+% of the work that I see done by electricians does not comply with several requirements.
Even though BS7671 is not law, there are laws that apply and TBH, most "so called" electricians I come across, and more to the point their work, does not comply.

As a 1 man Ltd. Co. I have even had Global so called "design" consultancies & global installers asking me where they have gone wrong on designs and installs.
Whilst I offered my client advice, I told them I would charge them.
They went back and changed some of it, I issued my client with an EDN on my next visit for the rest, and left it up to them.
I am still their client, the global "house" has not been back, and they have no had a shout one a large contract issued by the client.
Mind, I did not either, but, that is probably because I have told them that I will not employ, thus they realised that I could not cope with the workload.
Also, they know that I will come back as a consultant to "oversee" the work at a later date and give them the good news if it is rubbish again.

 

[tazz]

I have never worked on a project, without a main Architect, and BC rule, were all diciplines design for approval from main building contractor on a co-ordinated drawing. This prevents miss alignment and equipment being incorrectly installed. I cannot see how a project could be run without such a drawing & design...

 

[Guest666]

I have never worked on a project, without a main Architect, and BC rule, were all diciplines design for approval from main building contractor on a co-ordinated drawing. This prevents miss alignment and equipment being incorrectly installed. I cannot see how a project could be run without such a drawing & design...

Really????

 

[tazz]

Really????

yes...pipes, tray, aircon, vents, light fittings would all be guess work....

 

[Guest666]

yes...pipes, tray, aircon, vents, light fittings would all be guess work....

I could not disagree more. Design is the simple part. It is done in the head and on the back of smoke boxes by thousands of sparks everyday. A nicely presented drawing on A1 paper and a design done on a software program is no more than a fancy computer and an expensive printer. The guys on the ground are the real stars IMO.

 

[netblindpaul]

So how do they share smoke packets when there are thousands of metres of cable and pipe to be installed?

 

[tazz]

I could not disagree more. Design is the simple part. It is done in the head and on the back of smoke boxes by thousands of sparks everyday. A nicely presented drawing on A1 paper and a design done on a software program is no more than a fancy computer and an expensive printer. The guys on the ground are the real stars IMO.

You carry on house bashing, best job you can do...

 

[Guest666]

You carry on house bashing, best job you can do...

Have not touched a house in 10 years. We use consultants for our design work. Sub it out is far cheaper than wasting a decent electrician's time sitting in front of a pc.