fire rated fittings in a new build

[powervan]

Hi been looking on old posts and one states Fire rated only required if another dwelling is above IE not same property or you break fire barrier in garage ?
i went to property 3 years old! and everywhere was mains gu10 non fire rated no fire hoods Its just a 2 storey house but would this comply with building regs 3 yrs ago ( fire and accoustic )?

 

[telectrix]

as you first line. generally a single dwelling is classed as a single fire compartment. exception being an integral garage with accomodation above.

 

[Octopus]

Out of interest how would you class flats where the ceiling is solid concrete?

I'm not sure!!

 

[telectrix]

i'd not be attempting to fit downlighters in concrete anyway.

 

[Octopus]

i'd not be attempting to fit downlighters in concrete anyway.

ha ha. Very funny!

Obviously there is a suspended ceiling to fit the downlights in!

 

[Anthony S]

Hi been looking on old posts and one states Fire rated only required if another dwelling is above IE not same property or you break fire barrier in garage ?
i went to property 3 years old! and everywhere was mains gu10 non fire rated no fire hoods Its just a 2 storey house but would this comply with building regs 3 yrs ago ( fire and accoustic )?

Internal door access to dwellings from integral garages need to be fire rated, the ceiling's consist of two layers of plaster board. There's your clue.

 

[powervan]

as you first line. generally a single dwelling is classed as a single fire compartment. exception being an integral garage with accomodation above.

what about the acoustic aspect of building regs?

 

[Andy78]

This is my take on it.

Part B of the building regs requires a 2 storey dwelling house to have a 30 minute fire rated ceiling/floor separating the upstairs from down. This usually takes the form of a plasterboard ceiling. To breach this and not reinstate the fire protection would be against this building reg.

BS7671 also requires any element of building construction breached by installed services to be reinstated or sealed according to it's degree of fire protection.

I will be using the above justifications to insist on installing fire rated downlights only in a 2 storey domestic property I visited today.

 

[Anthony S]

This is my take on it.

Part B of the building regs requires a 2 storey dwelling house to have a 30 minute fire rated ceiling/floor separating the upstairs from down. This usually takes the form of a plasterboard ceiling. To breach this and not reinstate the fire protection would be against this building reg.

So what about fire rated doors when the fire spreads up the stairs ?

 

[Andy78]

So what about fire rated doors when the fire spreads up the stairs ?

The fire could quite easily spread up the stairs, but that has nothing to do with downlights. I'm not saying the building reg makes sense, I'm saying what it states.

 

[Anthony S]

The fire could quite easily spread up the stairs, but that has nothing to do with downlights. I'm not saying the building reg makes sense, I'm saying what it states.

What page of the Document Mate to save me searching

 

[Andy78]

Hang on a minute Anthony ... I'll find it

 

[Guest125]

Even in a house the kitchen lights would need to be fire rated also.

 

[Andy78]

What page of the Document Mate to save me searching

Approved document B, volume 1, page 59, table A1, section marked 3a.

 

[Guest125]

Approved document B, volume 1, page 59, table A1, section marked 3a.

Nice to see some genuine help.

 

[Anthony S]

Approved document B, volume 1, page 59, table A1, section marked 3a.

Andy

Have a read of page 21 with regards linings because I can't copy and paste it

adequacy resist the spread of fire over the surfaces and have if ignited a rate of heat release or a rate of fire growth which is reasonable in the circumstances

 

[Andy78]

Andy

Have a read of page 21 with regards linings because I can't copy and paste it

adequacy resist the spread of fire over the surfaces and have if ignited a rate of heat release or a rate of fire growth which is reasonable in the circumstances

Its page 24 on my PDF where that is mentioned, but yes I suppose it does support the argument for reinstating fire resistance properties of ceilings.

 

[Anthony S]

Its page 24 on my PDF where that is mentioned, but yes I suppose it does support the argument for reinstating fire resistance properties of ceilings.

Andy

Ill pm you a link mate and then your be surprised

 

[Andy78]

Andy

Now read this

file:///C:/Users/user/Downloads/2005_14_spring_wiring_matters_installing_recessed_luminaires_in_ceilings.pdf

I can't. That's a link to a document on your PC I think.

 

[Anthony S]

nothing doing

 

[shanky887614]

why would you call your account on your computer user? its not Linux

 

[Anthony S]

why would you call your account on your computer user? its not Linux

I don't know what happened

 

[Andy78]

Andy

Ill pm you a link mate and then your be surprised

I looked up wiring matters 14 and didn't bother reading it to be honest. I'm not sure how a guidance document from 2005 can be relevant when debating the building regulations 2010.

 

[Anthony S]

I looked up wiring matters 14 and didn't bother reading it to be honest. I'm not sure how a guidance document from 2005 can be relevant when debating the building regulations 2010.

Why ? because it is not necessary to ‘box in’ luminaries or to use fire hoods for the purpose of restoring the fire resistance capability of ceilings which are not of fire compartment construction.

 

[Jay Sparks]

I have always fitted fire rated down lights where there is likely to be someone in the room above, in normal day to day living. i.e. if there is a bedroom/bathroom/office above the kitchen or living room. However, I wouldn't necessarily fit down lights in a bedroom/office if the room above was an unused or only used for storage attic/loft space. I can't remember a specific reg that says this, it's just what I was always told to do....good practice. It gives the person in the above room, the time to escape in case of a fire.


Jay

 

[Anthony S]

I have always fitted fire rated down lights where there is likely to be someone in the room above, in normal day to day living. i.e. if there is a bedroom/bathroom/office above the kitchen or living room. However, I wouldn't necessarily fit down lights in a bedroom/office if the room above was an unused or only used for storage attic/loft space. I can't remember a specific reg that says this, it's just what I was always told to do....good practice. It gives the person in the above room, the time to escape in case of a fire.


Jay

Smoke alarms would offer the best chance of escape in a dwelling with a stair case where the fire would spread up the stairs with in minutes.

 

[Andy78]

I looked up wiring matters 14 and didn't bother reading it to be honest. I'm not sure how a guidance document from 2005 can be relevant when debating the building regulations 2010.

Why ?

I'm not sure I can clarify that any further ?

 

[Anthony S]

I'm not sure I can clarify that any further ?

If you ever deal with Building Control ask them to clarify the meaning of fire compartment construction ie walls, floors, ceilings with regards a semi or terraced 2 storey dwelling and see what they say.

Ill leave it at that.

 

[Jay Sparks]

Smoke alarms would offer the best chance of escape in a dwelling with a stair case where the fire would spread up the stairs with in minutes.

Only if you heard it.lol
And smokes wont stop the spread of fire through a ceiling into the room above. Long before it go's up the stairs.....especially if the fire starts in the kitchen! In a lot of the houses round my way, you would have to go through the living room to get to the stairs. But, as you say, if they here the smokes in time, then fire rated fittings down stairs, gives the occupant some time to escape before the fire leaks through the ceiling, into the above room.

So having both fitted, gives the best chance of escape.

Jay

 

[Andy78]

If you ever deal with Building Control ask them to clarify the meaning of fire compartment construction ie walls, floors, ceilings with regards a semi or terraced 2 storey dwelling and see what they say.

I understand the meaning of a fire compartment, but that is a separate issue to the original quote I provided.

 

[Newbyspark]

To be fair, fire rated downlights would do Bugger all in a 2 storey dwelling in helping saving fire spread if it was not a sealed compartment.

 

[Jay Sparks]

To be fair, fire rated downlights would do Bugger all in a 2 storey dwelling in helping saving fire spread if it was not a sealed compartment.

So then neither would smokes if you couldn't here em....or if you did here em but couldn't get to your third kid out their bedroom, if it was on fire within a few minutes, cos fire rated down lights weren't fit below!

What about the smokes that have no batteries in???? Who hears them??? At least you might smell it first?? and have a few minutes to escape!!

 

[Newbyspark]

It's not going to be a fire coming up through the floor that's going to kill you. If it's not a sealed compartment i.e theres an open door the smoke will travel a lot faster than the flames. It may reduce a bit of damage to floor joists ect, but not lives. I'm only talking about a 2 storey dwelling, not a seperate flat, and yes working smoke alarms do a much better job.

 

[Jay Sparks]

It's not going to be a fire coming up through the floor that's going to kill you. If it's not a sealed compartment i.e theres an open door the smoke will travel a lot faster than the flames. It may reduce a bit of damage to floor joists ect, but not lives. I'm only talking about a 2 storey dwelling, not a seperate flat, and yes working smoke alarms do a much better job.

We are not joiners!!! We can only fit what is fire rated, electrically. Imagine a joiner HAS fitted the fire rated doors?? How do you know as an electrician, that they are fire rated??? we do our bit and hope the lesser trades do theirs!!!!