Fitting solar advice qualifications

[Rockomuir]

Afternoon,

Just looking at expanding my business and getting more into solar. I am part p niceic18th edition which means I can supply new circuit for solar up to the isolator and sign it off. Just wondering what I need to get to fit inverter legally if anything. Do I need to be Mcs accredited or assessed by niceic to add that to my ticket. I have heard that that MSc is not nessercary if not exporting back to the grid.

Any advice would be appreciated
Many thanks

 

[Deleted account]

Speak to niceic. they will give you all the info you need.

 

[swaRRR]

The guy at NAPIT told me MCS registration is only for the actual panels, the inner working like inverter battery etc is covered under electrical installation.

To get MCS you just need to show a proficient install, as per the guy from NAPIT.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

The MCS paperwork to register is a nightmare I am slowly working my way through it and its not fun
Once set up its straightforward but takes a while.
whilst protecting people from rogues is a noble cause, it is a bit OTT when it comes to MCS, too much on that and very little on actual installs and electrical knowledge and skills

 

[swaRRR]

The MCS paperwork to register is a nightmare I am slowly working my way through it and its not fun
Once set up its straightforward but takes a while.
whilst protecting people from rogues is a noble cause, it is a bit OTT when it comes to MCS, too much on that and very little on actual installs and electrical knowledge and skills

Is there anything about the actual battery/inverter installs on there? The NAPIT guy told me for all intents and purposes they treat panels as their own separate thing from the actual installation itself.

 

[plugsandsparks]

As mentioned the MCS is not devised to be technical proficiency. If your client wants to get any sort of export money from Utility Co, they will want MCS registration.
To install inverters follow the Manufacturers Instructions to the letter and ensure isolation is clearly labelled. Installing panels is more structural than technical, how panels are configured into strings , just use the manufacturers design tools. How panels are fixed, use both panel manufacturers recommended mounting options and make sure they match the panels fixing companies installation methods. Once you have done one , its just same old .....
All the technical information you could ever want is there, so no guessing required, Good Luck

 

[bigspark17]

Solar panels can be installed by the homeowner as long as they are not wanting to get paid for exporting. Only certification that is required is an electrical installation for the circuit “which is usually only tested to isolator” and g98 gorm to dno if less than 4kw. manufacturers instructions are crucial and a good roofer to asses roof structure and install rails.

MCS is a big con worse than part p!

 

[timhoward]

As someone who knows absolutely nothing about this area, a daft question cometh...or maybe two...
Aren't feed-in-tariffs now a thing of the past?
In turn, does that mean that customers are unlikely to actually require the installation to be complete by an MCS-certified installer?

 

[plugsandsparks]

It is a good issue. yes FITs (as we knew it are gone), however certain energy providers offer export tariffs, for residential is pretty mean around 3p/KWh , however commercial get better terms, i have heard of 16p/kwh for medium sized commercial. Not all energy providers offer it and there are hoops the energy provider has to jump through to ensure they are not exploiting homeowners but one thing they all appear to stick to is that the installation needs an MCS certifcate. (good way to limit demand, lol)

 

[Deleted account]

I had my panels fitted two weeks ago.
Octopus are giving 7.5 p per kWh only if you have the mcs certificate. I’m in process of doing this for my house.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Good to know, how much for import ?

 

[Deleted account]

Good to know, how much for import ?

At moment I’m paying 20p per kWh, but that’s on a 2 year fixed tariff ending in July 2023.
I may not be able to switch til then. Still looking into it.
not sure what the new import tarif is with the 7p per kWh export. It’s something I’m awaiting pending getting my cert from installers.
im guessing it will be 33p per kWh. Basically the government cap.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Cool, i am working with a client based on the delta between export tariff offered and import tariff to determine payback for batteries. Its an interesting time and more enjoyable than pulling 120sqmm SWA in winter, lol

 

[Other_Tucker]

The feed in tariff is (UK) always less than the price you pay for incoming mains electricity kWh. So try to use and keep your self generated power wherever possible.

I install Eddi units that notice when your solar production is more than your household usage. It tells the ASHP to go mad and use the free power to charge the Sunamp thermal battery. Or get a fancy battery bank

 

[Deleted account]

Batteries at £4500 each, I feel are not worth it.

i have a combi for hot water and heating. So I have fitted a 250L water cylinder with two immersions. this cylender will feed all hot water to bathrooms shower and bath. The combi still feeds the kitchen sink.

one immersion run of a solar iboost Set at 75degrees Catching wate exported electric and storing it as hot water.
The other immersion on a timer set to 55 degrees at 7pm til 9 pm. The second immersion should never be used In theory.

right now its working a treat. Even in worst weather day length in December I will generate enough for the water And some.
right now I’m generating 20 kWh per day. exporting average of 10kwh per day and using 10 kWh Per day.

so I’m saving on electric and gas.

solar install 3.6 Kw £5500 fully fitted.

fitting the cylinder cost materials and labour £1500. Did most of this myself with a heating engineer I know. He did the pressurised system part to get the sign off.
thats a lot cheaper than £4500 For a battery.

I used 5kwh of electric per day pretty much all year round. Add an extra 5 kwh I am now using per day to heat the water via the iboost.

10 kWh per day 3650 kWh per year.

my system will generate 3990kwh per year.
obviously i wont get all my usage from my generation alone some will be imported , but I predict minimal import. Maybe 800 to 1000 kWh.

prediction at current prices I am paying at moment I will be saving £272 on gas and electric per year.

On new prices next year if the cap does not go up I will be saving £436. That’s not including any export tariff.

the clincher for me getting this done was it will never be this cheap to get this installed again. Everything is going up. Materials, labour.

also adding solar panels to your home for the first time ever actually increases the value of your home.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Like it ! - My own house is an absolute *astard for mounting panels giving shade free time but i have not given up. My tariff ends next June, by then i should have a plan and implemented it. I may need 1, 2 or 3 inverters and also plan to dump excess into DHW tanks of which i have two. At the moment i can get the panels and some inverters but the roof mounts are Rocking Horse so will probably fabricate my own mounts. In addition i am buying up blankets wholesale as i forsee a shortage in November............

 

[swaRRR]

On new prices next year if the cap does not go up I will be saving £436. That’s not including any export tariff.

That's the crux - it's going to at least double.

Average energy bills will be £4.1k next year, so lots of households will be paying £5-6k+.

It depends on your household though. If you do most of your heavy lifting in the day time the battery doesn't make much sense.

 

[Deleted account]

That's the crux - it's going to at least double.

Average energy bills will be £4.1k next year, so lots of households will be paying £5-6k+.

It depends on your household though. If you do most of your heavy lifting in the day time the battery doesn't make much sense.

Electric @33p per kwh
gas @ 10p per kwh
after my fixed rate.

do you believe that is going to double. Wow! I thought that was high.

so electric 66p
gas 20p
next year.

i Guess these figures are only so low due to the governments cap.

Let’s be honest we have had it easy in this country. We are one of the richest countries in the world. About time we started paying for what we take.
we claim poverty. We don’t know what real poverty is.

 

[Deleted account]

I needed to re evaluate what I’m going to save. Just read a few articles.

predicted electric 51p per kwh
predicted gas. 13p per kWh.

next month. (October)

thank goodness for my 2 year fixed rate.

this means I’m saving £695 per year with the panels.

at this rate payback will be 5 or 6 years maybe less if it keeps rising.

anyone thinking of doing this. Don’t think, just do.

 

[swaRRR]

Yeah news yesterday said price cap is going up to £4.1k not the previously mentioned £3.2k. It's a disgrace, Eon reported record profits yesterday. Lots of people are going to be bypassing their meters.

 

[nicebutdim]

Yeah news yesterday said price cap is going up to £4.1k not the previously mentioned £3.2k. It's a disgrace, Eon reported record profits yesterday. Lots of people are going to be bypassing their meters.

How does this work? I'm led to believe caps are placed on unit price and standing charge, rather than total bill?

I don't wish to appear cynical, but I'm not sure that 'the news' is generally a reliable source of news.

 

[swaRRR]

How does this work? I'm led to believe caps are placed on unit price and standing charge, rather than total bill?

I don't wish to appear cynical, but I'm not sure that 'the news' is generally a reliable source of news.

The last time the news said the price of utilities was going up my bill went from £58/month to £230/month so i'm inclined to believe them.

utility bills cap - Recherche Google - https://www.google.com/search?q=utility+bills+cap&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZh7TJhL35AhXMEsAKHfhaD8QQ_AUoA3oECAIQBQ&biw=1600&bih=737 Common knowledge at this point.

I won't be paying it though, the Henley Block Fairy is going to visit mine this Crimbo.

 

[nicebutdim]

The last time the news said the price of utilities was going up my bill went from £58/month to £230/month so i'm inclined to believe them.

utility bills cap - Recherche Google - https://www.google.com/search?q=utility+bills+cap&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZh7TJhL35AhXMEsAKHfhaD8QQ_AUoA3oECAIQBQ&biw=1600&bih=737 Common knowledge at this point.

I won't be paying it though, the Henley Block Fairy is going to visit mine this Crimbo.

Sounds like a daft plan and one that may well increase your financial burden.

If crime is your response to rising utility bills, it might be better to aim for something that would be rewarded with free food and accommodation at her Majesty's pleasure.

On that first issue, I'm assuming the news correctly predicted that your bill would rise to exactly £230? If not, you would appear to be confirming my point.

 

[swaRRR]

Sounds like a daft plan and one that may well increase your financial burden.

If crime is your response to rising utility bills, it might be better to aim for something that would be rewarded with free food and accommodation at her Majesty's pleasure.

On that first issue, I'm assuming the news correctly predicted that your bill would rise to exactly £230? If not, you would appear to be confirming my point.

You arguing with yourself? Cause i'm not interested in arguing with you mate. Bills are going up, solar is paying for itself in 2 years. Simples.

 

[nicebutdim]

You arguing with yourself? Cause i'm not interested in arguing with you mate. Bills are going up, solar is paying for itself in 2 years. Simples.

Asking questions and pointing out the consequences of ill-conceived actions isn't being argumentative - it's generally referred to as 'conversation'.

Bills are indeed going up - I think everyone can agree on that much.

As for solar paying for itself in two years; I can offer you an installation if it comes with guaranteed 2 year payback.

 

[Deleted account]

You arguing with yourself? Cause i'm not interested in arguing with you mate. Bills are going up, solar is paying for itself in 2 years. Simples.

I don’t think the solar is @nicebutdim ,s issue. It’s condoning breaking the law by bypassing the meter. Unless that was a joke. if so a funny smiley emoji may have helped

 

[nicebutdim]

I don’t think the solar is @nicebutdim ,s issue. It’s condoning breaking the law by bypassing the meter. Unless that was a joke. if so a funny smiley emoji may have helped

That and the oft repeated statement that 'bills are going up by X amount'. Bills are going up due to increased unit price and standing charge - individual bills are determined on the basis of energy used and not some figure put forth by the media.

 

[Deleted account]

That and the oft repeated statement that 'bills are going up by X amount'. Bills are going up due to increased unit price and standing charge - individual bills are determined on the basis of energy used and not some figure put forth by the media.

Have to agree. These quoted totals we are going to pay are meaningless unless you know what our usage is.

the governments stating 33 p perkwh electric and 10p per kWh gas I accept.

the new proposed 51p per kWh for electric and 13 p for gas. I also accept.

but these £3000. £4500 caps are meaningless without knowing the total usage of each person.

 

[DPG]

You arguing with yourself? Cause i'm not interested in arguing with you mate. Bills are going up, solar is paying for itself in 2 years. Simples.

If you can offer a solar installation that pays for itself in 2 years then I can get you quite a few to do. Send me details please.

 

[plugsandsparks]

If you can offer a solar installation that pays for itself in 2 years then I can get you quite a few to do. Send me details please.

Actually it wont be long before thats a reality at retail level. I can achieve 2 years, buying at trade and installing myself for my home at 30p/kwh. If i could convince some trees to shrink i probably could get that even quicker

 

[nicebutdim]

Actually it wont be long before thats a reality at retail level. I can achieve 2 years, buying at trade and installing myself for my home at 30p/kwh. If i could convince some trees to shrink i probably could get that even quicker

It could well happen, but much depends on how far the current situation is allowed to progress.

Today my daughter showed me a Tiktok video extolling the virtues of French electricity production and how cost to consumers is a fraction of what we pay in the UK. What it didn't explain was the real situation in France: plants off line due to huge maintenance overruns, record levels of net imports from neighbouring countries and EDF being forced to sell below cost price. I'm not sure how long French tax revenue will be able to sustain subsidised electricity or what will happen when the whole show inevitebly sh!ts the bed.

 

[swaRRR]

If you can offer a solar installation that pays for itself in 2 years then I can get you quite a few to do. Send me details please.

Too busy.

But you can get inverter-only set ups that will make your electric basically free during the summer and take a massive edge off in winter depending on your usage and usage patterns of course. You can get them put in for less than £3k. Battery storage set ups you can get for £6-10k installed. £6000/£4000 (price cap come Jan) = what?

I am currently paying £1400/year for my electric and i don't use a great deal, and i've been told (by every news outlet in the country and the government) that that's going to go up in October and then again in January.

Simples.

 

[swaRRR]

I don’t think the solar is @nicebutdim ,s issue. It’s condoning breaking the law by bypassing the meter. Unless that was a joke. if so a funny smiley emoji may have helped

Mate there's nothing immoral about ensuring your family are warm and your fridge works. Is stealing of record breaking profit-makers during a time of massive economic downturn and poverty really stealing?

And anyway, it was a joke, although i know that never stops people on forums. Wait til Dim figures out your 'supplier' doesn't actually supply you with anything but a meter.

 

[Deleted account]

Mate there's nothing immoral about ensuring your family are warm and your fridge works. Is stealing of record breaking profit-makers during a time of massive economic downturn and poverty really stealing?

And anyway, it was a joke, although i know that never stops people on forums. Wait til Dim figures out your 'supplier' doesn't actually supply you with anything but a meter.

Half a like Isn’t available.
It was a joke brill, but still not to sure about two immoralities making a right.

Its a business, if oil companies want to make money. There is nothing we can do about it.

if we as individuals do a quote for a customer that they cannot afford, do we do it for free or just for what they can afford.

To control companies is bad for companies and the economy as a whole. The alternative is nationalise.
Nationalised companies just make the unions stronger and we have the strikes of 70s and 80s all over again.

just gone way off topic. Sorry.

 

[swaRRR]

Half a like Isn’t available.
It was a joke brill, but still not to sure about two immoralities making a right.

Its a business, if oil companies want to make money. There is nothing we can do about it.

if we as individuals do a quote for a customer that they cannot afford, do we do it for free or just for what they can afford.

To control companies is bad for companies and the economy as a whole. The alternative is nationalise.
Nationalised companies just make the unions stronger and we have the strikes of 70s and 80s all over again.

just gone way off topic. Sorry.

I'm a capitalist.

But when people literally are choosing between eating or staying warm and they put their prices up after record breaking billions in profit (ie, after everyone and everything is paid) just because they CAN, then i don't think 'stealing' from them is actually stealing. I don't think hungry people stealing food is a crime; other people do. That's fine and their prerogative.

What i do know is i'm currently getting between 2 and 5 requests per week to bypass meters for people. I haven't done any. Mainly because they can't afford it

 

[Deleted account]

I'm a capitalist.

But when people literally are choosing between eating or staying warm and they put their prices up after record breaking billions in profit (ie, after everyone and everything is paid) just because they CAN, then i don't think 'stealing' from them is actually stealing. I don't think hungry people stealing food is a crime; other people do. That's fine and their prerogative.

What i do know is i'm currently getting between 2 and 5 requests per week to bypass meters for people. I haven't done any. Mainly because they can't afford it

“Mainly because they can’t afford it.”

im pleased you put the imoji after as I would have thought you may have meant that.

Pleased you didn’t mean it As we both know breaking the law or even advocating the breaking of the law on this forum is definitely against the rules.

You may have noticed a lack of imojis after my comment as i am not joking And my coments are absolutely serious. There is no tongue in cheak Or nudge, nudge wink, wink.

 

[swaRRR]

Mainly because they can’t afford it.
im pleased you put the imoji after as I would have thought you meant that.

Pleased you didn’t As we both know breaking the law or even advocating the breaking of the law on this forum is definitely against the rules.

You may have noticed a lack of imojis after my comment as it was not a joke.

I did the emoji's so i didn't have to get a lecture off Dim for my joke.

 

[UNG]

How much are the electricity supply companies using the MSM to condition the general public to the new norm of ridiculously high energy prices when it costs no more to get it out of the ground, the one part of the supply chain that is never mentioned are the city traders who must be getting bumper bonuses out of their oil and gas dealing in recent months

 

[Deleted account]

How much are the electricity supply companies using the MSM to condition the general public to the new norm of ridiculously high energy prices when it costs no more to get it out of the ground, the one part of the supply chain that is never mentioned are the city traders who must be getting bumper bonuses out of their oil and gas dealing in recent months

That’s a good point. It should be taken away from the trader/ stock market. also Food should never be a commodity to traders.

 

[UNG]

That’s a good point. It should be taken away from the trader/ stock market. also Food should never be a commodity to traders.

The futures markets are where the big problems exist these guys are buying gas, oil, diesel and petrol many months and in some cases years ahead there was a time when the price dropped that they had tankers full of oil and refined fuel at anchor until the price rose sufficiently for them to make their money

 

[swaRRR]

How much are the electricity supply companies using the MSM to condition the general public to the new norm of ridiculously high energy prices when it costs no more to get it out of the ground, the one part of the supply chain that is never mentioned are the city traders who must be getting bumper bonuses out of their oil and gas dealing in recent months

I noticed recently the usually expensive Jet garages are like 10p/litre cheaper than the supermarkets. And then Asda had the gall to put out an advert saying they were lowering the price to help its customers because it really cares about them.

 

[UNG]

Asda has to pay back a rather large loan that the Issa brothers took out to buy it, it's well documented the the financial press Morrisons is in a similar position after it's takeover